Preschooler nursing still affecting fertility?

[attached2mason]

Hey all . I have a four year old son and have been ttc the past two years. When we started TTC he was still nursing 4-5 times a day or more. However, I didn't think it was affecting fertility since I got AF back at 6 months and according to temp charts I was ovulating regularly. Flash forward to now . . . my four year old, who had been nursing once a day for the past six months, has weaned on his own over the last week and a bit.

There seems to be no real reason why I haven't gotten pg (done all the tests which came back fine, have done some chlomid cycles, am on a looong waiting list for IVF). I was talking to a fellow LLL leader the other day and she said that she couldn't get pg until her dc weaned completely, even when the child was older like my ds.

Anyone else find this to be true for them? Not sure if this is the appropriate folder, but I just didn't think that asking this question to those not practicing CLW or those who have not experienced nursing older children would make a lot of sense, yk? Fertility not returning until 18 months is an entirely different thing that 4 years pp, yk?

TIA!

(p.s. . . .I still can't believe that he hasn't nursed in a week . . . what a bizzare feeling. I miss it.)

[milkybean]

I don't have an answer, but I'm right there with you!

I haven't had tests done...just sort of figured it was continued hormonal wackiness. I was very sensitive to the hormones during pregnancy...emotional state changed entirely about 2 days post "baby dance", breasts changed inside of a WEEK, waist started expanding a day or so after that...when the relaxin started being made, all my joints went to nothing, I could barely stand sometimes b/c of my ankles, knees, and hips being so wiggly. And if I did almost fall I coudln't really catch myself b/c my wrists were so weak and my elbows and shoulders weren't much better.

I figure that since I was so sensitive in those ways, I might very well be sensitive for TTC. And just b/c my mom and stepmom conceived each of their second babies when their firsts were just over 1, doesn't mean I'm like that too (not that stepmom has anything to do with me genetically, but she's a nursing mom that I have known).

So if it's the case, I'm there with you.

If you think one week is weird, try almost two weeks! Thursday, unless he asks before that, will be 2 weeks...it's very strange. A whole new world...

[SereneBabe]

Well, I'm pregnant now (due in May) and we tried for the last... 2.5-3.5 years?

My daughter is 5.5 and finished nursing last month.

So, I got pregnant in August-ish.

By that time, she wasn't nursing much in the daytime unless she wasn't feeling well. She still nursed a lot at night, though, until about 3-4 months before I got pregnant. Actually, before that.

I did a few things to try and help her not nurse at night. It was difficult because I really wanted to follow her lead, and we did, but she definitely didn't believe she could sleep without nursing. She was totally convinced she wouldn't be able to make it.

In our various family experiments, I finally went a night here and there not nursing at all. So, combined with almost no nursing during the day, there were a handful of times when I didn't nurse for about 24 hours.

I mention this because I got my period back at about 2 or 3 years post partum. It was late. And in all that time I noticed more and more signs of fertility returning. I never did get a lot of egg white cervical fluid, though. (But I'm 39, so, it's not as... um... wet as it used to be...)

My point? I think even with monthly-ish ovulation and all that, our bodies can be still a bit whacky when nursing. My cervix would go up and down all around like it wasn't sure if I should O or not. I'd get some ewcf then nothing then again, then nothing. Etc.

I wonder if this is even helpful?

--Heather

[attached2mason]

Thanks so much, mamas. I really, really hope that it has been the nursing keeping us from getting a BFP for the past two years . . . that would make it all worth it. Not getting pg because your body is still focused on the nursling you have seems like a wonderful thing, while not getting pg because of some unknown reason is just sad/depressing, yk? I guess what I'm saying is that it would make the wait sooooo very worth it.

IF the nursing is the reason for subfertility then I am glad that I didn't come to realize it until now . . . if I had realized it a year ago maybe I would have let it affect my plans to practice CLW and I am so glad that didn't happen.

[milkybean]

"Not getting pg because your body is still focused on the nursling you have seems like a wonderful thing, while not getting pg because of some unknown reason is just sad/depressing, yk? I guess what I'm saying is that it would make the wait sooooo very worth it."

I agree. Completely.

(day 18 of no nursing here)

[SereneBabe]

I also completely and totally agree.

I also recommend anyone who is nursing their child like we do to *not* consult a doctor about getting pregnant. Or, rather, be well informed about your fertility before you do.

When I got pregnant with this baby (August-ish) I had a dr.'s appointment for something else. She noticed I'd been trying to get pregnant for a while. I said, oh, I'm not worried, we haven't been REALLY trying that whole time. And, my fertility is just now coming back strong. It'll happen.

She proceeded to tell me how this fertility specialist in Portland would do all of these tests that were really cool and really easy (flushing out my uterus and tubes with saline or something?). Blah blah blah.

It got so hardcore that I actually pretended I was going to consider it just so she'd be quiet.

I wanted to kick her in the shins.

[milkybean]

Originally Posted by SereneBabe

I also recommend anyone who is nursing their child like we do to *not* consult a doctor about getting pregnant. Or, rather, be well informed about your fertility before you do.

omg I had an acupuncturist get all weird on me about it!

At the time I was still using the thought "well my mom got pg with my brother when I was still nursing, and I have my period so I MUST be totally fertile", and I was seeing him for some other issues. I asked him if there was something he could do in the "ovary/uterus" area to sort of jumpstart things, and he told me that since I was nursing, it would be *impossible* to get pg. That NO ONE can get pg while nursing.

I went to him a few more times, while he completely ignored that whole section of my being, and then the last visit I had with him, he left a needle in my scalp, and I noticed it 2 hours later, and that's when I thought "um, not so sure he's the BEST acupuncturist in the world" and stop going to him.

Really should find someone else, to see if that 2 hours of scalp chi-changing did anything to me....


Anyway, it's not really the same thing that you said, serene, but it IS important to know yourself when talking about getting pg while nursing with *anyone*.

[Serenyd]

Interesting, I just read today that the breastfeeding hormone prolactin can prevent implantation even if you are ovulating. Supposedly you have to be nursing round the clock for this to be effective, but, everyone is different ykwim?

[attached2mason]

I am sort of afraid to believe that it was the nursing and get my hopes up, but that is a post for a whole other folder I suppose .

I agree that bf'ing for this long can affect fertility in a whole host of ways, some of which I'm sure allopathic medicine doesn't even understand (or hasn't considered).

BTW, while I'm not sure if it was wise or not, I didn't tell any of my dr's that I was still nursing - even the fertility specialist. I figured, they'll test my hormone levels etc and if it is affecting it I'm sure it will show up in my prolactin or something. I do wish that I hadn't tried the chlomid (if it was the bf'ing causing subfertility, that is), but ah well . . .no matter. I waited until the milk had completely run dry so at least it didn't potentially cause harm to DS.

Anyway . . .wish me luck. I'm so glad to have other mamas who 'get it' - I feel far less alone. Here's hoping for a winter baby next year!!! If DS gets his way it will be a little sister

[attached2mason]

Originally Posted by milkybean

"Not getting pg because your body is still focused on the nursling you have seems like a wonderful thing, while not getting pg because of some unknown reason is just sad/depressing, yk? I guess what I'm saying is that it would make the wait sooooo very worth it."

I agree. Completely.

(day 18 of no nursing here)

Wow - day 18! Amazing how they fly by . . .

We have been at this 22 days and have nursed twice in that time. The last time was 5 days ago. It may happen once or twice more, but I'd be shocked if it were any more than that, and I wouldn't be suprised if we've already had our last session. Bittersweet . . . I'm just glad he's four and not two - I would have had more trouble letting go at two I bet.

[Dandy]

I'm only posting this because my "data" might help you a little, but I do chart and OF COURSE this is the month I'm only sort of half-charting - it's been 5 weeks since Elliott asked to nurse, so it would be good to compare. Anyway, I noticed that the second part of my cycle has been much shorter for all of my post partum periods. (I guess you could say I'm 33 mos postpartum, and they came back at 8mos, so it's been 2 years now.) My period comes about 9 days after ovulation, and it used to be 13-14 days after. I'm not TTC, so I it's not something I've looked into, just something I've observed. However, I do believe that would affect fertility, if you're noticing a similar pattern.

[attached2mason]

Originally Posted by Dandy

I'm only posting this because my "data" might help you a little, but I do chart and OF COURSE this is the month I'm only sort of half-charting - it's been 5 weeks since Elliott asked to nurse, so it would be good to compare. Anyway, I noticed that the second part of my cycle has been much shorter for all of my post partum periods. (I guess you could say I'm 33 mos postpartum, and they came back at 8mos, so it's been 2 years now.) My period comes about 9 days after ovulation, and it used to be 13-14 days after. I'm not TTC, so I it's not something I've looked into, just something I've observed. However, I do believe that would affect fertility, if you're noticing a similar pattern.

You are absolutely right - that woud make getting pg very unlikely since you need about a 10 day LP I think for ttc. LUckily, that hasn't been an issue for me. I stopped charting a long while ago since it was making me totally insane and my cycles were soooo predictable anyway, but it would be neat to have charts to compare the before/after weaning stuff!

[AbbieB]

How is your lutal phase? Breastfeeding can continue to keep it short even after you start ovulating.

I TTC for 2.5 years before conceiving. My lutal phase was slowly moving toward the target 10 days miscarry for implantation. I got pregnant with it being only 9 days (at least all the cycles right before the one we caught!)

[attached2mason]

Originally Posted by AbbieB

How is your lutal phase? Breastfeeding can continue to keep it short even after you start ovulating.

I TTC for 2.5 years before conceiving. My lutal phase was slowly moving toward the target 10 days miscarry for implantation. I got pregnant with it being only 9 days (at least all the cycles right before the one we caught!)

LP is good - generally it is 13 days.

[milkybean]

I feel like we should start a tribe.


My little goofy-boy nursed for a minute last night. After 20 full days! And of course it's as I approach ovulation. He *says* he wants a baby brother or sister, but he's doing all he can to prevent it!

I have extremely predictable, boring, textbook cycles, but I can definitely say that my last period was just a bit different than it has been...it's interesting, most definitely!

Would be even more interesting if I weren't aging so rapidly.

[attached2mason]

Originally Posted by milkybean

I feel like we should start a tribe.

I agree!

My little goofy-boy nursed for a minute last night. After 20 full days! And of course it's as I approach ovulation. He *says* he wants a baby brother or sister, but he's doing all he can to prevent it!

This weaning process is a good reminder for me that things in life generally aren't linear . . . but rather are more 'messy' than that. Ah, the life lessons of nursing . While he was nursing were you thinking to yourself "Is THIS the last time?". Everytime Mason nurses (three times in three weeks approx) I try to be present and mindful of the moment because I would like to remember the last time, yk?

Mason has been talking a lot lately about his baby sister. He is just SO excited, and while I don't want to burst his bubble, it is hard to communicate the realities of conception and 'subfertility' to a four year old without crushing him. I am hopeful that I will get pg soon, but then I've been hopeful for two years so it is tough to get my hopes up without being scared of the potential fallout, yk?

[milkybean]

I have an ongoing email I send to myself each time he nurses...I try to send the latest update as soon as he's done nursing (he only nurses at bedtime now, when he nurses) so the mini-story is fresh in my mind.

Since I myself was forcibly weaned twice, I'm determined to really do this on his terms.


It is really amazing what a one minute nursing session can do, though! He used Righty for that minute, and today Lefty (cracking up at myself) has been fuller, a bit twingy, and all that...it's like that side is saying "OK, my turn!", when for those 20 days both sides were calming down, there were really no feelings of milkiness, they were just sort of breasts sitting there...and now they are saying Helloooooo! again.

[contactmaya]

Good luck. Would be interested to know if you ever get a definitive answer to your question...

[PJJ]

nursing

Your situation OP seems rare to me since so many others (the majority) still get pregnant while finished with EBF. I have experienced this among family, friends, and clients.

I think it might be something else.

Good luck.

[attached2mason]

Originally Posted by PJJ

Your situation OP seems rare to me since so many others (the majority) still get pregnant while finished with EBF. I have experienced this among family, friends, and clients.

I think it might be something else.

Good luck.

As a LLL leader I am definately (painfully) aware of this fact. It has been very painful to watch it happen so easily for others who are nursing. As I mentioned, I have had extensive fertility testing to try to find another answer. I have, however, known other women who have this "rare" problem that concieved upon weaning and I am hopeful that this is the case for me as well. Hope is so very important at this stage of the game for me as the other option is a very expensive, painful, and risky proceedure (IVF).

I do appreciate your well wishes and concern, however.