New randomized "safety" study of thimerosal - Page 3

[Lazy Gardens]

Originally Posted by Ophelia

Yep, goes back to the whole comparing vaccinated-to-unvaccinated study.

Are you suggesting that they give dummy vaccines (saline injections) to thousands of children and knowingly subject them to the risk of measles encephalitis, diptheria, tetanus and whooping cough?

[aniT]

Originally Posted by Lazy Gardens

Are you suggesting that they give dummy vaccines (saline injections) to thousands of children and knowingly subject them to the risk of measles encephalitis, diptheria, tetanus and whooping cough?

Well for one, you would have to think vaccines worked, and 2, you would have to fear these diseases. Why not just study the children who's parents voluntarily don't vaccinate.

[Lazy Gardens]

Originally Posted by Yulia_R

She said that vaccines have yeast AND antibiotic in them

Which vaccines? Can you link to a manufacturer's ingredients list?

The D and the T (toxoids) of the DTaP are made by the same species of bacteria that produce them in nature ... no yeast involved.

[Yulia_R]

Originally Posted by Lazy Gardens

Which vaccines? Can you link to a manufacturer's ingredients list?

The D and the T (toxoids) of the DTaP are made by the same species of bacteria that produce them in nature ... no yeast involved.

I did not ask which vaccine specifically, but as a DAN trained doctor (DAN - Defeat Autism Now; they do it by reversing vaccine injuries and this doctor is known to do miracles) I'd assume she knows what she is talking about.

[Lazy Gardens]

Originally Posted by kiara7

Less poison vs more poison. Ok...

How about no poison? Did that ever cross anyone's mind?

Ever hear of Nitric oxide - nasty lethal gas at small concentrations, but absolutely essential for human life in teensy quantities. Men can't get erections without it, lungs can't function without it ... the research is just starting, but it's already an incredibly important molecule.

Ever hear of oxygen? It's harmless, even essential at some levels, toxic at higher levels. At one time, premature babies were placed in incubators containing O2-rich air, but this practice was discontinued after some babies were blinded by it.

By your standards and logic, because oxygen can cause blindness and convulsions at one concentration, or because NO is deadly at some concentrations, they're bad at any concentration and we should avoid them.

The concept that "the dose makes the poison" goes back into historical medicine, way before "Big Pharma". Paracelsus the 16th century genius wrote: Alle Ding sind Gift, und nichts ohn Gift; allein die Dosis macht, daß ein Ding kein Gift ist. "All things are poison and nothing is without poison, only the dose permits something not to be poisonous."

That is to say, substances often considered toxic can be benign or beneficial in small doses, and conversely an ordinarily benign substance can be deadly if over-consumed. Even water can be deadly if overconsumed[7].

[Lazy Gardens]

Originally Posted by aniT

And it's not OK to eat them either. At least not ones tinkered with in a lab.
http://www.vrp.com/articles.aspx?ProdID=art502&zTYPE=2

"Foreign" DNA, in that context, means any not-mouse DNA, not "lab-created" DNA. Basically, the DNA from whatever the mouse ate.

If you study people, you will find the same effect. We absorb food DNA, whether it is GMO or 100% the way evolution made it.

[Proverbs31]

Originally Posted by Lazy Gardens

Which vaccines? Can you link to a manufacturer's ingredients list?

The D and the T (toxoids) of the DTaP are made by the same species of bacteria that produce them in nature ... no yeast involved.

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/pin...nt-table-2.pdf

Pediarix
Comvax (yeast, but no abx)
Twinrix
Prevnar (yeast, but no abx)
Engerix-B (yeast, but no abx)
Recombivax (yeast, but no abx)

[Lazy Gardens]

Originally Posted by aniT

Well for one, you would have to think vaccines worked, and 2, you would have to fear these diseases. Why not just study the children who's parents voluntarily don't vaccinate.

The children whose parent's voluntarily don't vaccinate them? OK

Try this one.

[Marnica]

Originally Posted by Lazy Gardens

Which vaccines? Can you link to a manufacturer's ingredients list?

The D and the T (toxoids) of the DTaP are made by the same species of bacteria that produce them in nature ... no yeast involved.

The following vaxes have yeast: Comvax, Energix B, gardasil, HIBtiter, Periatrix, Prevnar, Recombivax, and Twinrix

These have neomycin and /or tetraclycline
Attenuvax, Fluvirin, Havrix, IPOL, Meruvax, MMRII, mumpsvax, pediarix, ProQuad, Twinrix, Varivax and Zostavax.

[grandmaofthree]

Originally Posted by Juvysen

Just because it leaves the body does NOT mean it's not causing an immune response... in fact, it's likely BECAUSE of the immune response. That's what your immune system is there for... reacting to foreign dna/proteins and clearing them out. One of the concerns with vaccines is that all the immune system "poking" that's going on is leading to immune system overreaction/autoimmune disease.

:

Is the foreign DNA everyone is speaking of from the human cells that the virus was grown in? Why do you assume that the purification process did not remove all of the DNA? I am pretty sure it is easy to precipitate and remove DNA with ethanol. Let's assume for the sake of argument that the purification missed some DNA though. How much DNA would there be? Has anyone quantified this? Is it a nanogram? A picogram? Such a tiny amount DNA would not invade the body like a pathogen (nor would a large amount, but that's not the point) and it would be quickly eliminated from the body. Even if there was a localized immune response, which I doubt there would be since DNA isn't harmful to begin with, why is a small, localized immune response a big deal?

Sorry that I'm still missing the point.

[applejuice]

At one time, premature babies were placed in incubators containing O2-rich air, but this practice was discontinued after some babies were blinded by it.

Yes, Lazy Gardens, had I been born in a hospital as most of my contemporaries in the early 1950s, I would be blind now. Thank G-d my parents acted on their common sense and had this premature baby at home, UC.

Here's looking at you! :

[Lazy Gardens]

Originally Posted by Proverbs31

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/pin...nt-table-2.pdf

Pediarix
Comvax (yeast, but no abx)
Twinrix
Prevnar (yeast, but no abx)
Engerix-B (yeast, but no abx)
Recombivax (yeast, but no abx)

There is no viable "yeast" organism in any of these vaccines. There may be some proteins from the cell coat of the yeast, but there are no intact cells.

Also, the yeast used in vaccine production is not a Candida species (any of several yeast species that causes thrush and vaginal infections and is blamed for many problems) but the common bread and brewing yeast, Saccharomyces cerevisiae .

As a microbiologist and medical technologist, I assure you that there is a difference between the two. For one, Candida can't ferment anything well enough to make beer.

[Marnica]

Originally Posted by grandmaofthree

Is the foreign DNA everyone is speaking of from the human cells that the virus was grown in? Why do you assume that the purification process did not remove all of the DNA? I am pretty sure it is easy to precipitate and remove DNA with ethanol. Let's assume for the sake of argument that the purification missed some DNA though. How much DNA would there be? Has anyone quantified this? Is it a nanogram? A picogram? Such a tiny amount DNA would not invade the body like a pathogen (nor would a large amount, but that's not the point) and it would be quickly eliminated from the body. Even if there was a localized immune response, which I doubt there would be since DNA isn't harmful to begin with, why is a small, localized immune response a big deal?

Sorry that I'm still missing the point.

The principal concern for safety lies with retention of residual DNA in the vaccine, especially since induction of cancer is a single-cell phenomenon, and a single functional unit of foreign DNA integrated into the host cell genome might serve to induce cell transformation as a single event or part of a series of multifactorial events. Current proposed standards for vaccines would permit contamination with up to 100 pg [picograms] of heterologous DNA per dose. This is equivalent to about 10(8) ‘functional lengths’ of DNA. Total safety would seem to require complete absence of DNA from the product.....Please note that 10(8) means 10 to the power of 8, or 100,000,000 “functional lengths” of DNA are allowed per dose of vaccine ”(

Well scientists seem to think that all it takes is 1 functional unit of viral DNA to be incorporated into the DNA of a human cell to transform that cell into cancer and the current standars in vaccine manufactering allow up to 100 million functional units of viral DNA in each dose or 100 picograms per dose.

I

[grandmaofthree]

Originally Posted by Marnica

Well scientists seem to think that all it takes is 1 functional unit of viral DNA to be incorporated into the DNA of a human cell to transform that cell into cancer and the current standars in vaccine manufactering allow up to 100 million functional units of viral DNA in each dose or 100 picograms per dose.

I

1 pg is just one trillionth of a gram and I did not know it represented a "functional length". Where did you get the information that you posted?

And is everyone here concerned about DNA from the cells the virus is grown in or something else?

[aniT]

Originally Posted by Lazy Gardens

The children whose parent's voluntarily don't vaccinate them? OK

Try this one.

I am tired and the kids are screaming and don't feel like reading all that.. but it seems to me that they were talking about parents who don't vacinate for tetanus. Upon skimming I didn't see a thing in there about comparing mercury levels and adverse reactions.

So what was the gist of that article? It didn't seem to be on topic.

[peainthepod]

Originally Posted by Lazy Gardens

Are you suggesting that they give dummy vaccines (saline injections) to thousands of children and knowingly subject them to the risk of measles encephalitis, diptheria, tetanus and whooping cough?

Or there could just be some long-term studies of children who were fully vaccinated, children who were partially vaccinated, and children whose parents would have refused to vaccinate them whether the study was done or not. No intentional disease exposure necessary. With the proper controls in place we could determine whether vaccines improve overall health. Do fully vaccinated children have higher incidences of cancer, diabetes, developmental delays, allergies, asthma, attention deficit disorder and hyperactivity, multiple sclerosis, rheumatoid arthritis, lupus, etc.? Are unvaccinated children healthier than vaccinated children?

Such a study would cost a lot of money and take many years to conduct properly. And it could potentially be devastating to the vaccine industry. So I'm not holding my breath that we'll see such a study done in our lifetimes.

[kiara7]

Originally Posted by Lazy Gardens

The children whose parent's voluntarily don't vaccinate them? OK

Try this one.

Lazy Gardens, with all due respect, that's not a study comparing vax'ed and unvax'ed children and the short and long-term outcomes of vax'ing. The abstract simply states there were 15 cases of tetanus in 8 years and 12 of those cases were unvax'ed children. Ok. That does not tell us anything, really, apart from that in 8 years 12 unvax'ed children had tetanus.

[SwanMom]

Originally Posted by Lazy Gardens

The children whose parent's voluntarily don't vaccinate them? OK

Try this one.

I just skimmed the article, but what I was impressed by was that out of 300+ cases of tetanus in 8 years, only 15 of those were children (3 of whom were vaccinated). Am I missing something? Seems like my kids have a greater chance of winning the lottery than getting tetanus?

[Marnica]

Originally Posted by grandmaofthree

1 pg is just one trillionth of a gram and I did not know it represented a "functional length". Where did you get the information that you posted?

And is everyone here concerned about DNA from the cells the virus is grown in or something else?

I posted the entire article already....read back through the thread

[Proverbs31]

Originally Posted by Lazy Gardens

There is no viable "yeast" organism in any of these vaccines. There may be some proteins from the cell coat of the yeast, but there are no intact cells.

I realize that, but can we have complete confidence that "some proteins" can't have an impact on the body?