Does vaccinating mom provide protection?

[namistenicole]

I'm not sure if this is a breastfeeding or a vaccines question, but here goes.

I don't want to vaccinate my daughter (7 weeks), but pertussis has a higher rate of incidence here on Oregon (or so I understand). Can I protect her by vaccinating myself and breastfeeding?

How does the breastfeeding/antibody connection work exactly? Does she only have protection via my antibodies while we are exclusively breastfeeding? If you know, or can point me in the right direction I'd really appreciate it!

[Gitti]

The vaccine does not protect against transmission.

[Gitti]

Sorry, I did not finish reading before posting. I'll give it another try.

Originally Posted by namistenicole

How does the breastfeeding/antibody connection work exactly? Does she only have protection via my antibodies while we are exclusively breastfeeding? If you know, or can point me in the right direction I'd really appreciate it!

Each disease and each vaccine is an individual thing.

The pertussis vaccines is a toxoid vaccine. So it does not build antibodies to the bacteria but rather lets you tolerate the toxins the bacteria produce. So, the vaccine would not protect your dd via bm.

But she does have protection via bm if or when you get in direct contact with someone who is a carrier of the bacteria. Because then you do build antibodies to the bacteria. That can not happen with the vaccine. It is not designed to do that.

Any time you come in contact with a virus or bacteria, your body build antibodies and they are being passed on to your dd.

Any time your dd gets in contact with a virus or bacteria, she sends you the signal via your breasts which in turn make you build antibodies and again pass them on to her.

Breast feeding is the best protection you can offer your baby.

Don't you just love Mother Nature?

[ZoeyZoo]

The pertussis vax does not prevent transmission so if you vax yourself it doesn't mean youu can't pass the disease to your baby. I do believe some antibodies may pass but you can get pertussis again and again so prior exposure won't necessarily protect someone.

If it makes you feel better I am getting over a case of it and I have a 8 month old. She has no signs of it.

[namistenicole]

Originally Posted by Gitti

Don't you just love Mother Nature?

Yes! Thanks so much for your response.

[aniT]

Really? I haven't run into pertussis this year.

[namistenicole]

Originally Posted by aniT

Really? I haven't run into pertussis this year.

It looks like that was true in '04 and '05, but not '06 and '07.
Pertussis statistics

[aniT]

Originally Posted by namistenicole

It looks like that was true in '04 and '05, but not '06 and '07.
Pertussis statistics

Well that was four and five years ago. That was just before the adult pertussis vaccine came out and they were diagnosing it left and right to scare people into getting vaccinated for it. Now it's not being diagnosed again becuase "adults" have been vaccinated.

See the thing with pertussis is, it is very often diagnosed as bronchitis or other bronchial ailments. Ever had bronchitis for a couple months? You can't always trust statistics. They are too easy to manipulate.

[daisymommy]

QUOTE: (from Gitti)
"Any time your dd gets in contact with a virus or bacteria, she sends you the signal via your breasts which in turn make you build antibodies and again pass them on to her."

Really?!?! I have never read that part before. That is awesome! Where can I read more about that?

[anewmama]

Yeah, me too. WOuld love to see those stats. Most immunity to diseases via breastmilk wanes by 6 months as I understand the literature.

"But she does have protection via bm if or when you get in direct contact with someone who is a carrier of the bacteria. Because then you do build antibodies to the bacteria. That can not happen with the vaccine. It is not designed to do that."

Link to study regarding BM and pertussis exposure?

[just_lily]

Also, it is important to note that naturally derived immunity (from actually having the disease) provides some protection from mother to baby, but vaccinated immunity does not.

Pre-MMR, measles in an infant was nearly unheard of because most mothers had natural immunity and that protected their babies. Now when there is a measles "outbreak" (and I use that term loosely) a large number of cases are in infants who are too young for the MMR, and have been given no immunity from their vaccinated mothers.

I don't have links because I don't usually take notes, I just read and things stick. I am sure if you do a google search you can find some evidence of this.

[aniT]

Originally Posted by just_lily

Also, it is important to note that naturally derived immunity (from actually having the disease) provides some protection from mother to baby, but vaccinated immunity does not.

Pre-MMR, measles in an infant was nearly unheard of because most mothers had natural immunity and that protected their babies. Now when there is a measles "outbreak" (and I use that term loosely) a large number of cases are in infants who are too young for the MMR, and have been given no immunity from their vaccinated mothers.

I don't have links because I don't usually take notes, I just read and things stick. I am sure if you do a google search you can find some evidence of this.

Hm.. is this immunity passed on before birth or through BM. Because many many woman started FF as early as the 40's and 50's. They were all told their milk contained DDT and formula was safer.

[lil_miss_understood]

Originally Posted by just_lily

Also, it is important to note that naturally derived immunity (from actually having the disease) provides some protection from mother to baby, but vaccinated immunity does not.

Pre-MMR, measles in an infant was nearly unheard of because most mothers had natural immunity and that protected their babies. Now when there is a measles "outbreak" (and I use that term loosely) a large number of cases are in infants who are too young for the MMR, and have been given no immunity from their vaccinated mothers.

I don't have links because I don't usually take notes, I just read and things stick. I am sure if you do a google search you can find some evidence of this.

That's what I've read also but I'm another one that doesn't take notes.

ETA: And I'm incredibly grateful that I caught measles as a kid since I have "natural" immunity.

[Gitti]

Originally Posted by Gitti

Any time your dd gets in contact with a virus or bacteria, she sends you the signal via your breasts which in turn make you build antibodies and again pass them on to her.

Originally Posted by anewmama

Link to study regarding BM and pertussis exposure?

Please go to the nursing forum and post it over there. They have breast feeding experts there and they will tell you exactly the ins and outs of breast milk. That is where I read it. I have no link but they do.

If I'm not way off, I think it was something like Kelly's bf site???

Originally Posted by aniT

Hm.. is this immunity passed on before birth or through BM.

Through transplacental maternal antibodies.

[namistenicole]

I found this link from LLL.

[Gitti]

Thanks.

I'll copy it because they just do such a great job of explaining what I was trying to say -

This means that if your baby has come in contact with something which you have not, (s)he will pass these germs to you at the next nursing; during that feeding, your body will start to manufacture antibodies for that particular germ. By the time the next feeding arrives, your entire immune system will be working to provide immunities for you and your baby. If you are exposed to any bacteria or viruses, your body will be making antibodies against them and these will be in your milk.

Like I said, Mother Nature is unsurpassed.

[anewmama]

Originally Posted by namistenicole

I found this link from LLL.

There is no mention of the longevity of the protection.

[13Sandals]

Most immunity to diseases via breastmilk wanes by 6 months as I understand the literature.

anewmama: you are confusing passive immunity to diseases like measles, mumps, etc that are passed from mother to infant during early breastfeeding which do wane around 6 months or so, to the continual production of antibodies in breastmilk to current exposures. After passive immunity wanes, if you are still breastfeeding and come into contact with measles, mumps, or ANY bacteria or virus, your body will mount an antibody response and you will trasmit antibodies through your breastmilk to your baby. You will not be giving your baby 'immunity', but you will be providing antibodies to help your baby fight whatever you have both been exposed to. In this way, the baby's immune system is starting to take over, but you are still helping out in the fight...does this make better sense?

[nycmom18]

i personally wouldnt get the vax. because not only does it not prevent transmission, it does not have very high effective rates, AND you definitely dont want your baby getting all of the other crap in the vax via your breastmilk.

your breastmilk really is one of the best things you can offer your baby.

[anewmama]

Originally Posted by 13Sandals

anewmama: you are confusing passive immunity to diseases like measles, mumps, etc that are passed from mother to infant during early breastfeeding which do wane around 6 months or so, to the continual production of antibodies in breastmilk to current exposures. After passive immunity wanes, if you are still breastfeeding and come into contact with measles, mumps, or ANY bacteria or virus, your body will mount an antibody response and you will trasmit antibodies through your breastmilk to your baby. You will not be giving your baby 'immunity', but you will be providing antibodies to help your baby fight whatever you have both been exposed to. In this way, the baby's immune system is starting to take over, but you are still helping out in the fight...does this make better sense?

Absolutely... but in general, most moms do not breastfeed beyond 6 months. The distinction between passive and the passing of antibodies is not always made in claims about if you "breastfeed, all will be well". But the other problem remains.... what if you stop breastfeeding at six months and the baby is still not strong enough to mount a defense against a VPD. The vaccine might have been of value to the baby. I also think there is often the implication that breastfeeding will provide life long assistance to the VPD's. That MAY NOT BE intended, but sometimes, that is how it reads.

But then again, this is MDC where the majority of moms are breastfeeding for extended period of times helping to get the babies beyond their most vulnerable time of life.