...but if your child gets Polio you'll never forgive yourself!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - Page 2

[peainthepod]

Originally Posted by Marnica

I might respond to this comment with

"Well since 95% of Polio cases present like the common cold, I probably could forgive myself"

A very good point.

[lissa21]

I get a similar comment from my mom of all people all the time, mainly because she doesn't know what else to tell me about our decision not to vaccinate. "Well, Janice's brother did from polio and she used to tell us all about how they couldn't go to the movies or anywhere because polio was so bad and so many people were dying from it." It always gets under my skin!! Mind you...the friend she's referring to is in her late 60s now!

[caro113]

We did a wbv at 3 days and 10 days and then never went back (we were going to do the 2 mth and then yearly visits just to please DP bc I was tired of arguing about it but then we lost our insurance so we couldn't go anyway) and the doc was okay with not vaxing .. sort of .. he said he wasn't going to push it (and the times we were there, he didn't) but that he would encourage it and if we decided not to, then so be it. He showed me a chart, just out of pure education since I was obviously researching this and had been for awhile, that showed how all these diseases started to disappear AFTER the vaxes were out. (He was really great guy and I would probably have gone to more wbv just because he was really nice and really cool. He also had a private practice and we were never in the waiting room so I wouldn't be as concerned about picking up anything there as I would at most other places. I do wish we still had insurance for him as a just in case deal )I was a bit confused since I have seen report after report after report that many diseases (esp polio) decreased well before the vaxes were out. Now I agree, polio was already decreasing way before the vaxes were out and there is no way - as pp have said - that i would damage a healthy child by compromising her immune system. But I am really curious as to where people get these charts saying vaxes were the reason for the decline in these diseases.

Anyhow, I also get that line a lot and I have used the "well I would rather my child get a disease she can over come than one she cant, like autism". Although I have heard about a diet that can help reverse it. People tell me that autism isn't actually linked but then I ask them why the government has a special fund set up to give money to families whose children have developed it due to DPT shots.
Oh, in the hospital, I was told that I had to give my daughter the Hep B vax because I didn't know my own status!

I don't believe in the efficiency of vaxes anyhow, since I still got mumps. I also don't believe in the need for a lot of them (like chicken pox .. seriously? we can't let our kids get chicken pox anymore?) especially when the body better innoculates itself after being exposed to the disease naturally. people annoy me ...

Anyhow, I'm rambling, but I agree with PP in saying that I'd rather nurture a sick children than damage a healthy one. I also what someone said in another thread that our children's bodies are not our own and therefore we can not make such harsh decisions for them. If they choose to be vaxed or circ then that is their choice to make and not ours. (I use that one a lot too, although the hospital gave me a come back with the 'but it is our duty to take care of those bodies until they are old enough' to which I replied 'yes, I know and I will do that by not compromising her immune system' .. not the best come back but how many people would really think of that come back? that nurse is only one so far)

[buttercupmama]

Originally Posted by caro113

If they choose to be vaxed or circ then that is their choice to make and not ours. (I use that one a lot too, although the hospital gave me a come back with the 'but it is our duty to take care of those bodies until they are old enough' to which I replied 'yes, I know and I will do that by not compromising her immune system' .. not the best come back but how many people would really think of that come back? that nurse is only one so far)

I guess she was too ignorant/stupid to see the paradox. Circumcision removes skin with thousands of nerves. Painful. Vaccines are potentially fatal. Ouch? So if it is, as she says, our duty to protect them, how does that equate with vaccination/circumcision? I would have probably been rude to her, to say the least...

[Full Heart]

Originally Posted by caro113

But I am really curious as to where people get these charts saying vaxes were the reason for the decline in these diseases.

All they do is take a snippet from the same charts we are looking at, starting at the year vaxes were introduced. The decrease was already happening or they would show you from the height of infection.

[caro113]

Full Heart: Interesting .. I never thought of that

Buttercupmama: The hospital was a last minute ordeal (and horrible one at that) and this nurse was the only person who wasn't be absolutely horrible to me. The OB on call, actually walked out on me and a whole bunch of nurses had to talk her back in to coming in the room to delivery the baby. She (the nurse) even came my room the next day just to see how I was doing and say hi, so the last person I was going to be rude to at that point was her. But I fully agree with you and I do use that with anyone who tries to say that I need to take care of her by vaxing (and any future son by circ bc 'its just normal' and 'i know a guy who wasn't and he hated it') I try not to get into with people but sometimes I just have to .. and I do get mean

and to the OP: Sorry I sort of hijacked your thread .. you can take it back now

[milkybean]

Originally Posted by texasAPmom

She told me it would be too late at that point. OK..why?? .

speaking to the person that you were talking to...

So if there were an outbreak, it would be too late at that point? Then...how on earth was their vaccine sooooo effective when it was created? Hmm? All vaccines were created during outbreaks....


caro113, hugs to you for having an OB walking out on you like that. Happened with my homebirth midwife, too...I had to apologize to her before she'd come back to the room and continue to stay with me...of course, I should have let her leave, she sent me right to the hospital after quite a bit of mindgame nonsense!

[PenelopeJune]

The day after I got my polio vaccine in 1984, when I was one, I stopped walking for a week. (So I think it was the killed virus, but not positive on that.) My mom was convinced that I had gotten polio from the vaccine and that I'd never walk again. The doctors, of course, blew her off and said it was coincidence.

I truly wouldn't be able to forgive myself if something like THAT happened to one of my kids. If I gave them a vaccine and they had some terrible reaction.

Besides, like has been pointed out many times before, most of the terrible crippling cases of polio 50 and 60 years ago was actually DDT poisoning, not polio. I believe that is what crippled my FIL when he was a little boy.

[melissabb]

Originally Posted by Full Heart

All they do is take a snippet from the same charts we are looking at, starting at the year vaxes were introduced. The decrease was already happening or they would show you from the height of infection.

Yep...and speaking of that.....

Here are the charts that show the decline was already happening before the vaccines were introduced:

Vaccine charts

[Ophelia]

Originally Posted by PenelopeJune

The day after I got my polio vaccine in 1984, when I was one, I stopped walking for a week. (So I think it was the killed virus, but not positive on that.)

I think OPV (the live one) was used until the late 1990's. I don't know if that means IPV was used in some places in the U.S. or not. I'm sure someone else would know more about that, or the info may be somewhere on InsideVaccines.com.

I might respond to this comment with

"Well since 95% of Polio cases present like the common cold, I probably could forgive myself"

Not to mention the facts that:

-the diagnostic criteria for polio was changed after the vaccine came into widespread use
-people were not even tested for polio, they were diagnosed based on a set of symptoms. So from my understanding, no blood tests, etc.

[milkybean]

Originally Posted by PenelopeJune

Besides, like has been pointed out many times before, most of the terrible crippling cases of polio 50 and 60 years ago was actually DDT poisoning, not polio. I believe that is what crippled my FIL when he was a little boy.

Really? That's interesting...I hadn't heard that before. Would love to know more!

Originally Posted by Ophelia

Not to mention the facts that:

-the diagnostic criteria for polio was changed after the vaccine came into widespread use
-people were not even tested for polio, they were diagnosed based on a set of symptoms. So from my understanding, no blood tests, etc.

Yep...in chiro school, the school's founder's wife was a young nurse at the time the vaccine was created. She had been in school before, and they were taught a certain set of symptoms. After she started working, the vaccine was created, and then they were re-taught the new set. Well the symptoms didn't change, they just varied...higher fever than before, longer fever than before...what would have been diagnosed at polio the day before the vaccine was now NOT polio the day after (I'm fudging the dates, definitely, here). She was a very interesting person to know.

[Arwyn]

Originally Posted by Marnica

I might respond to this comment with

"Well since 95% of Polio cases present like the common cold, I probably could forgive myself"

Aren't the odds even better than that, though? I just read a pro-vax blurb saying polio resulted in paralysis in 1/200 cases, which would mean it DIDN'T 99.5% of the time, and that's only if the figures aren't exagerrated or incorrect.

Although one could have more than a cold without resulting paralysis...

[PaigeC]

Originally Posted by milkybean

Really? That's interesting...I hadn't heard that before. Would love to know more!

Polio was DDT poisoning: So interesting with the charts too:

http://www.harpub.co.cc/

[caro113]

Originally Posted by milkybean

[I]

caro113, hugs to you for having an OB walking out on you like that. Happened with my homebirth midwife, too...I had to apologize to her before she'd come back to the room and continue to stay with me...of course, I should have let her leave, she sent me right to the hospital after quite a bit of mindgame nonsense!

Thanks Truthfully, if I hadn't been at 9cm and an hour and a half + away from home, I would have just left. She kept telling me she didn't go to medical school to hurt people. I just hate how people just assume we are crazy and uneducated and just plain stupid bc we plan a homebirth and refuse to vax.

[LisaJP]

oh I really wish you ladies were my neighbors: I need the suuport!! dd is going to be 2 this month and dh is putting pressure on me to start vaxing, when I am dead against it, but that's another story.

I saw one of my friends this weekend who had her dd on election day and she admitted that she got the vaxes when she was originally in the same camp as I. My other friend who has a 5 mo old started talking about the costs - $400 for one shot!!!!???? Now I know why all those drug co's are fat city......for crying out loud!!

then, last week I noticed a band aid on a student's arm ( I am a HS teacher) and asked her about it: she had gotten the 3rd Gardasil shot! It just saddens me to no end........

[caro113]

I really don't understand the gardisil shot .. maybe I'm looking at it wrong, but why exactly would a mother encourage her teenage daughter to get a vax to prevent an STD? Exactly how is that NOT promoting teen sex? and teen motherhood since she now doesn't need to worry about getting the STD so why bother spending the money on the condoms? I dunno, I just don't get it.

As far as you being against vax, have you presented your case to DH? DP was very against not vaxing in the beginning (he was pretty much all for the mainstream since that was all he knew and he couldn't figure out why vaxes would be bad) but after I showed him all this literature, he finally agreed with me. Go to the resources area and you'll find plenty of literature to show him. This is something I found on someone else's signature: http://www.sunherb.com/truth_about_vaccines.htm

Stand your ground and don't give up. If you are dead set against, then don't cave in, unless you really feel it's the right choice.

Good Luck

PS: there's another website, vaccine911 I think, where they tell you of all these horror stories about vaxes. They have pictures of these beautiful babies and then say how they were killed by vaxes. You could always try to scare him into it.

[caro113]

yeah .. vaccine911.com and then go to "Vaccine Injury" up top and then on the left you can go to "search memorials". I warn you though, it is heartbreaking. I can't even look at it because it makes me cry, all those beautiful healthy babies who have lost their lives (which is even sadder) or those who now have physical disabilities (like autism, deafness, etc)

[Super Glue Mommy]

IF the polio vaccine even works, which they haven't proved
and
IF your child came in contact with Polio
and
IF your child caught polio
and
IF your child was in the 5% of people who have symptoms when they catch polio
and
IF your child was in that small percentage that includes malnourished immune compromised people who have severe reactions
and
IF vaccines were safe, and made with safe ingredients, and didn't carry risks of their own.
and
IF the risks of CATCHING the disease in the first place wasnt lower then having a bad reaction to a vaccine

THEN a person might "not be able to forgive themselves"

but speaking from experience, It's a lot harder to forgive yourself when your child has a bad reaction to a vaccine because you didn't do your research enough to know that the dangers of vaccines outweight the dangers of the diseases, most of which your children wont come into contact with anyway.

[ema-adama]

Originally Posted by Full Heart

Actually if my kid got polio I would really be wondering where they got it from. And I would be amazed any dr would be able to diagnosis it. I would probably be too stunned to be hating myself.

I also hear the "you'll never forgive yourself." About hbing and co sleeping.

I probably would be snarky and say, "How would you know? Do you have a lot of regret about your parenting practices?"

I need to remember this when IL's (all doctors of various rank) freak out about hb, cosleeping, *breastfeeding* and no vax.... This totally is the point, although it might hit too raw of a nerve

Originally Posted by caro113

Thanks Truthfully, if I hadn't been at 9cm and an hour and a half + away from home, I would have just left. She kept telling me she didn't go to medical school to hurt people. I just hate how people just assume we are crazy and uneducated and just plain stupid bc we plan a homebirth and refuse to vax.

Yes..... this seems to be a common misconception.

[ilovemygirl]

Originally Posted by Full Heart

I probably would be snarky and say, "How would you know? Do you have a lot of regret about your parenting practices?"

Originally Posted by Pyrodjm

Now I would never forgive myself if my child was damaged by a vaccine. I'd rather treat a sick child than damage a healthy one.

I know I'm late but I just wanted to say I LOVE both these comments. You gals are awesome!