supps when sick, on SCD

[momofmine]

Hi friends,
We've been doing the SCD for about a month now, and both of my kids are having much better stools. It's still not consistent, but definitely continuing to improve.

So, now both are sick with a cold/fever. I have several immune boosting things I usually use, like formulas by Herbs for Kids, and something called ProBoost (thymic protein), and Umcka Cold Care, Sambucol, etc. But all of these things, except for plain sodium ascorbate have illegal ingredients, like glucose syrup or sweeteners of some kind.

I'm torn whether or not to use something for a week that is not on the diet. Any advice?

[tanyalynn]

I don't have any great ideas, just thinking aloud here... seems like you'd want to balance what gets them better faster (from being sick) with what will make them feel worse, gut-wise (I'm looking at this one short-term, cause even giving it a week doesn't seem like it should slow overall gut healing too badly). When you've used the other stuff (besides the SA) in the past, is there any one that you really think has helped them? If the effects have been really subtle, I may skip them and just stick with the SA (which I admit has been very helpful to us, so I'm probably biased on it) and foods that are easy to digest. Bone broth would be SCD legal, wouldn't it? But probably not potato-peel broth? I've heard good things about broth made from potato peels (just simmer a short time, say 30 minutes, and use organic potatoes) but probably not ok from an SCD standpoint (high in minerals, apparently, just different minerals than homemade bone broth). Do the kids _feel_ better (behavior, less upset tummies, whatever) or are the benefits you're seeing indicators of better health, but not them actually feeling better/happier/whatever?

[momofmine]

Yeah, I mean I feel like they feel better too, in addition to having better stools. No one has had an upset tummy for weeks (until this morning, my 4 yo said he might throw up, but he never did, but I think that is related to this virus/fever). They were both having stomachaches before. Also, they were both also having times where they had a small amount of stool in their pants, because it was just so loose. That hasn't happened once since starting SCD. My older one is still having bedwetting, that actually seems a bit worse the past week or so, wetting more than once a night. But the stool/gut issues have definitely improved, though we still have days where one or both will have loose mushy stool, and I can't pinpoint quite what caused it.

So, should I just take a leap and trust the SA and bone broth to work? I think I am usually in action mode when they get sick, because in the back of my mind I am saying to myself I will not give abx ever again, so I have to get on top of this and be proactive. But maybe the SA and broth is enough.

When your kiddos are sick, is that basically all you do? They are not having any clear indications for a homeopathic remedy either, so I'm not really seeing anything there.

I think it's not so much that I give the other stuff to help them through it, so much as it is to be proactive and ward off complications or a cold turning into bronchitis, for example.

[tanyalynn]

Originally Posted by momofmine

When your kiddos are sick, is that basically all you do? They are not having any clear indications for a homeopathic remedy either, so I'm not really seeing anything there.

I think it's not so much that I give the other stuff to help them through it, so much as it is to be proactive and ward off complications or a cold turning into bronchitis, for example.

Okay, now I totally get where you're coming from. I can see why you feel like you want to do everything up-front to prevent it getting bad and needing to re-do the whole antibiotic thing which started all this. I feel really lucky that we haven't gone that path yet.

Here's everything I've done, but I usually don't have to do it every time, BUT more and more I am realizing that the approach I "stumbled" on for illnesses is an excellent approach for us, but maybe since it's a nutrition-based approach, and we have lots of nutrition deficits, maybe it's more effective for us than for other people. And our guts are healthier than they could be--not great, esp my daughter, but poop is closer to okay than not.

-SA to bowel tolerance (for almost all illnesses, though I'm not sure how well it's absorbed if it's a diarrhea/vomiting illness--and if they've got diarrhea, it can be hard to tell when to stop)
-I don't know enough about homeopathic remedies to try anything except the natrum muriaticum for my daughter's canker sores (and it works! so impressed, way better than before when we just waited it out for a week)
-I give multiple vit/min supps all the time, so my kids always have extra Bs, minerals I know they're low on (still low, I think, despite the supplementation)
-homemade stock/soup (easy digestibility, mostly if we have diarrhea/vomiting illnesses--not all colds)
-homemade potato peel broth, good for different minerals, I've done it a couple times, can't tell if it really made a difference
-Aviva Romm's garlic lemonade (mostly for coughing or if our throats hurt--though the kids have never said their throats hurt, this last time I made it because _my_ throat hurt)
-high dose vitamin A for my son when, twice, a series of colds morphed into this icky-sounding cough that wasn't getting better (doc said bacterial infection 1st time, 2nd time didn't go to doc)

It's hard because yeah, it sounds like they're feeling better (my daughter's stomach aches have gone away too, that's such a nice feeling) and you don't want to un-do that. Have you had any accidental bad foods this past month? Do they feel bad with small amounts of non-SCD legal foods? There's probably no perfect answer here, I hate that.

[momofmine]

Thanks so much, that is really helpful. As the day goes on, I am feeling like they aren't that sick this time, so I think I am going to just go with the things that are scd-legal, like the SA. Thanks for reminding me about the garlic lemonade. That is a good book and I have it. I should look through there and just pick out some things that would be scd legal. I guess if you make your own tinctures and teas like she talks about, I can use honey and control whether something is legal or not. I really should order a few things and learn how to do that.

As for vitamin A, I just switched us over to the HVCLO, the regular for my 4 yo and the raw fermented for my 9 yo. (Just because I had doubts about the younger one taking the raw fermented willingly, but I think I'll switch him to that too after this bottle is done.) So, when I was just giving regular Carlson's or Nordic Naturals, I always gave 1 tsp a day normally, and 2 tsp a day when they were sick. Do you increase their A with CLO, or in a separate supp? How much do you give when sick?

And what do you do about minerals? That is something I think I need to look into. Are you talking about calcium, magnesium, zinc, what else? Do you just do a general mineral supplement?

Oh, and what about the K2? Is that something that would be good to start them on? Is that something you do in addition to butter oil or instead of butter oil when you aren't doing casein?

Sorry for all the questions! I am just re-thinking my whole immune-boosting toolbox today. I now have a cupboard full of supps I probably won't use for a while.

Thanks!

[tanyalynn]

Quick replies, weird day yesterday and last night--my son got about 2 dozen ant bites at the park, and a) I'll be getting something homeopathic (apis mell-something) for it next time cause that's easier than massive amounts of SA (which really seemed to help, but whoops, I overshot the amt and poor kid had lots of diarrhea), and then b) he seems to be getting sick too, slept horribly overnight, I am a zombie and he's clearly not feeling right yet. We've done ant bites before (they're all over in Texas) so it's not a weird allergic reaction, but poor kid, what a day.

re: A--I give 10,000/1000 A/D every day (will taper down to 5,000/500 at some point, I think we still need to make up deficiencies still--and I don't use extra when we're sick) but for a real illness if I think it's really needed (so far only 2x)--but for those times, I was worried we had a gross, immediate deficit (thought kiddo had used up his A with a long series of illnesses, and I wanted to make a real difference--I used Carlson's vitamin A (from fish oil, no D, though in retrospect the D wouldn't hurt and would maybe help) the kind that comes in maybe 25,000 IU/capsule? I think he actually consumed about 80,000 iu/day for 2 days and that was what he needed to start healing (it was a pretty quick turnaround, quite obvious). I am hoping we don't get to a situation like that again (barring something like measles which is a little worrisome) because now that I've been supping A/D for a year _with_ K which he needs in such an odd way, I am hopeful.

Minerals--I use Perque Bone Guard Forte 20, a tablet that I grind in a coffee bean grinder. Good range of minerals, easily absorbable (I give them a lower dosage, and me too, than you'd expect, just 1 tablet, could be less for 2&5yos who aren't so far behind as mine, as much magnesium as calcium). Downside, you'd need to hide it in something, easy for us of course, less so for everyone else.

Butter oil would be okay for us, we don't have a real dairy allergy, it's casein (and lactose, for those who care) -free, but we need a higher dose, and Thorne's liquid K2 (600mg, finally figured out there are 600 drops in the bottle) is more economical. My son needs a ridiculously high dosage, 7-9mg/day (more if I'm giving a DHA supp or we're in the sun a lot, so all summer it'll be 9 drops/day) but I just give my daughter 2 drops, am and pm and I think that's plenty. I am starting to use Carlson's 5mg K2 capsules for myself, I think I'll need similarly ridiculous amts of K2 for myself now that I'm starting to supp hvclo for myself (have a large purchase of it left, haven't even had to think about the raw and/or fermented stuff).

I think it's just as hard to get enough K from foods as A and D, and I really think Price was right on that stuff. For people using normal amounts of drops of Thorne's, although 1 bottle is expensive ($55-ish) the bottle will last a long time (say 2 drops/day for 3 people, so 6 drops/day is more than 3 months).

I hope your little ones keep getting better today, wishing the same for whatever my son's working on.