"share day" sounds nice, but... - Page 4

[jimblejamble]

Is it the school's fault or the teacher's fault that a student decided to bring their favourite toy to school?

[runes]

Originally Posted by je309

It's all in how you parent your kids. My kids are not obsessed with material things because that's not how they are raised. Sorry if your kids are.

Why do you keep assuming that my children "obsessed" with material things?

My own interest in this discussion stems from the fact that I am committed to raising a child that is NOT influenced by the rampant consumerism/commercialism in our society today, not because I have a kid that is materialistic. Quite the opposite. We have very limited exposure to media and we steer clear of licensed characters (DD doesn't have a clue who Dora is, and she only knows about Winnie the Pooh because we read the original stories to her). We want to keep it that way, thank you very much.

Clearly this is an issue, since other mothers have commented that they've noticed that this is a problem at their child's preschool.

For the record my child is not in school (though she is preschool aged). We plan to homeschool.

[je309]

Originally Posted by kidspiration

We have very limited exposure to media and we steer clear of licensed characters (DD doesn't have a clue who Dora is, and she only knows about Winnie the Pooh because we read the original stories to her). We want to keep it that way, thank you very much.

Congratulations. I wish you all the best.

[mamaofthree]

ok, i haven't read every reply to the OP but i have to say i am a bit shocked by the attitude given here. not one of helpful information but pretty much one of "get over yourself".
even if the issue is a non-issue to you, you don't have to be rude.
and the comment about "if you don't like it then take your kid out of school" is just uncalled for, how is that helpful?

i don't see how it would ruin the kids day to have them bring in something "non-toy" at all. sounds like a great idea to me. then everyone has to put in a bit more eefort and imagination.

h

[PlayaMama]

Originally Posted by je309

They go out into the world and encounter things such as show and share and they handle it because they don't care. They don't have the desire to have what everyone else has and in the 3 years that we have been going to a school that does this activity, I have never one time had my children coming home damaged in any way by what they have seen another child bring to school.

What is wrong with just teaching your child what you want them to know about commercialism and life and having them bring in an item that you deem appropriate? Why can't you explain to them how horrible the show and share items of other children are if you're that worried about it? Why is it that big of a deal to you?

do you think they don't care because of your teaching or because of their temperaments? what if they did care in spite of your teaching?

it's that big of a deal to me because the other options seem extremely easy (nature item, story, etc) and to me it's just one more nail in the coffin that is the innocence of childhood. instead of the default being exposure to commercial toys and me having to argue against it, why don't you argue about the benefits of this kind of exposure?

saying, "it's not a big deal to me. so, it shouldn't be a big deal to you," really isn't convincing me. and yes, discuss consumerism a great deal with my children but i can't say there is a reason for more exposure than necessary, maybe you could enlighten me...

[EXOLAX]

Originally Posted by PlayaMama

ANYWAY, back on topic, i think that having the children branch out to bring things other than toys would be a great exercise for them and i really don't see how that is negative?

Agreed.

[*Erin*]

Originally Posted by kidspiration

Read my post again. Nowhere was it mentioned that wealthy families have more toys. And you actually made my point for me and contradicted yourself at the same time. By saying in the same sentence that financial situation doesn't predestine toy ownership AND that the wealthiest families you know buy their children the least amount of toys you are actually stating that, indeed, socioeconomic conditions in fact DO impact toy acquisition. You assumed that I meant that kids from families with more money have more/better toys...I never alluded to that at all.

Still think this is an appropriate teachable moment for a preschooler? If so, I'd love to be a fly on the wall during that conversation.

maybe you didnt say it, i don't know, but that's what the general populace is assuming, no? that the fancy toys are the kids-with-moneys' belongings? i would assume that. it's the exeption that the person behind the wheel of the Bentley is poor, i don't think i'd be off in that assumption. at least, that's the way it is in my experience. and yes, of course it's contradictory to that to say the wealthy people i know have the least stuff.

people are not always easily fit into a box.

the whole thing, it's just so messy, isnt it maybe i did make your point for you. so? why should a child not be allowed to bring a favorite toy, even if their favorite toy is expensive? should the child who gets to have alot of cool toys lie and bring a cheaper toy to make the kids without lots of cool toys feel better? cause that's not life. my dd is cool with the fact that she doesnt have the fancy stuff her buddies may have. i dont get to have the cool car her friend's mama drives. im ok with that. that's life. i agree kids should be protected and sheltered from the harshness of things as long as possible, but to me, this isnt harsh.

so...

yes, i still do think it's a fantastic teaching moment. most things in life are, for us anyway. it has been for me, also. i'm a few years down the road from the first discussion of stuff and money, she's come around again, at age 6, to seeing the whole issue differently now that she's older. again, very interesting and wonderful discussions.

you may have enjoyed being that fly.

peace!

if the fave toy thing is an issue, maybe you could suggest some alternative. i like the idea of kids bringing a nature thing instead, as pp's mentioned-it's creative, and there's bound to be lots of opportunities for learning there.

[aprons_and_acorns]

Originally Posted by TeresaZofia

Well... I'm not really worried, per se, about it. I just think it's a little weird for there to be a school-sanctioned "show-off" and tell (as one pp cleverly described it).

I get that kids will see each other's stuff at other houses, at the park, out in the world, and yes, at school. It's just more the principal of it that just makes me wonder.

Why isn't there a class in high school that asks students to bring in their favorite sneaker or handbag? It's kind of like that to me. Kids will have what they have and most likely, at times, want what other kids have. But to dedicate class time to it?

I think it's not really about the stuff. This is my son's first year in a non-special ed class and they do Show-and-Tell once a month. It's so nice to know my child, who has been challenged with his communication from the very start, can stand in front of the group and tell about something important to him. I always have to try to get DH to let DS choose his own item to bring. He wants to guide him toward "interesting" things like a fossil or a bird call whistle or a stone arrowhead his uncle found in by the railroad tracks, which is nice but I think it is so neat to see which part of his life HE wants to share. It's almost always a Hotwheels car. And I think that's great that the kids are encouraged to use a prop to tell something about themselves. I'm sorry to hear that its causing strife or a sense of material competition for some kids and families. I just wanted to share a different side of why I really like the regular show-and-tell at my son's school. I think it is benefitting his development a lot and he is learning some neat things about his friends. And they all know he likes Hotwheels which somehow makes him feel good.

[mtiger]

Originally Posted by aprons_and_acorns

I think it's not really about the stuff. This is my son's first year in a non-special ed class and they do Show-and-Tell once a month. It's so nice to know my child, who has been challenged with his communication from the very start, can stand in front of the group and tell about something important to him. I always have to try to get DH to let DS choose his own item to bring. He wants to guide him toward "interesting" things like a fossil or a bird call whistle or a stone arrowhead his uncle found in by the railroad tracks, which is nice but I think it is so neat to see which part of his life HE wants to share. It's almost always a Hotwheels car. And I think that's great that the kids are encouraged to use a prop to tell something about themselves. I'm sorry to hear that its causing strife or a sense of material competition for some kids and families. I just wanted to share a different side of why I really like the regular show-and-tell at my son's school. I think it is benefitting his development a lot and he is learning some neat things about his friends. And they all know he likes Hotwheels which somehow makes him feel good.

And I think that says it all.

I had Show & Tell days (sorry - that's what it used to be called) when my kid(s) wanted to bring in the cool snake skin we found on a hike. Then I had days when they wanted to bring the cool "Disney" thing they had. Which was cool to them because their "uncle" (aka family friend) brought it ALL THE WAY FROM CALIFORNIA JUST FOR THEM! had nothing to do with it being Disney. Had everything to do with who brought it for them. I think it would have been pretty darned sad if the kid had been forbidden from bringing it just because it was a Disney toy.

On the one hand, we want our kids to be individuals, to value things for any number of reasons. On the other, we want to indoctrinate them into what is important to us. And don't think that playing the "thou shalt have nothing that conveys commercialism" is any less a form of indoctrination than buying them a load of Disney dreck. It's just a different sort. And... it's hypocritical, IMO.

[PlayaMama]

Originally Posted by mtiger

And I think that says it all.
Which was cool to them because their "uncle" (aka family friend) brought it ALL THE WAY FROM CALIFORNIA JUST FOR THEM! had nothing to do with it being Disney.

It's just a different sort. And... it's hypocritical, IMO.

i'm glad your kids weren't into the toy just because it was di$ney. what if they had been?

the op was speaking from a different experience than yours so i'm not really sure how relevant it is to say, "well, my kid didn't feel that way so yours shouldn't either."

also, i'm not sure about how it's hypocritical to want to protect your children from something you feel is dangerous. i also don't think educating about the profit motives of corporations is indoctrination? look at the charter for any corporation. profit is the motive for it's existence, you're fooliong yourself if you think that any of the large corporations exist for any other reason than making money. di$ney exists because it makes money NOT because it is in some way beneficial to children.

[fadedgirl]

Originally Posted by mamaofthree

ok, i haven't read every reply to the OP but i have to say i am a bit shocked by the attitude given here. not one of helpful information but pretty much one of "get over yourself".
even if the issue is a non-issue to you, you don't have to be rude.
and the comment about "if you don't like it then take your kid out of school" is just uncalled for, how is that helpful?

i don't see how it would ruin the kids day to have them bring in something "non-toy" at all. sounds like a great idea to me. then everyone has to put in a bit more eefort and imagination.

h

:

Maybe I'm misunderstanding some people, but I'm a little baffled by the logic being employed on this issue. Just because things exist and will be encountered in life doesn't mean that it (whatever "it" might be) should be spotlighted at school.

Seeing things IRL, or at a friend's house during play simply *is* different than having it showcased on a regular basis at school.

I'm totally dismayed by the lack of respect being afforded to mamas who are making different choices than others in regard to toys/commercialism. How mamas raise their kids is their choice, and should be respected no matter what side of this issue you fall on.

[GuildJenn]

OP, have you had a chance to sit in and observe how it actually goes down every day? Because I do think that makes a difference.

My son came home from school drooling for a lightsaber... and his school doesn't really encourage kids to bring their own toys, except one or twice a year. He just was playing with a child who was all into it.

Which is just to say that if our kids are with other kids, they do pick up on things, and it may not be fair to be blaming a solitary class activity. I'd personally want to see it for myself in action before I decided there was a problem.

[mtiger]

Originally Posted by PlayaMama

also, i'm not sure about how it's hypocritical to want to protect your children from something you feel is dangerous. i also don't think educating about the profit motives of corporations is indoctrination? look at the charter for any corporation. profit is the motive for it's existence, you're fooliong yourself if you think that any of the large corporations exist for any other reason than making money. di$ney exists because it makes money NOT because it is in some way beneficial to children.

Indoctrination is indoctrination. Regardless of the side it comes from. Sure - corporations are in the business of making money. Uuuuhhh... most people work to.... make money. A lot or a little. That's still the goal. Unless you live on a farm, grow your own produce and livestock, chop your own wood, and buy nothing at all.... somehow, you are likely making money to pay for stuff. That's not evil.

I work for a company. Guess what - it makes money. As a result - it pays me. Money. So I can buy things. Not evil.

I have a choice how I spend my money (so do you!). You're actually allowed to tell your kids "no, I am not buying you Disney dreck." Really and truly, you are. It's okay. I've done so over the years, and at nearly 15 and 17, they have not been harmed in the least. Even with friends who have had all sorts of stuff that I wouldn't buy for them.

Honestly - the key is to focus less on what everyone else is doing and more on what you find important and valuable.

[PlayaMama]

Originally Posted by mtiger

I work for a company. Guess what - it makes money. As a result - it pays me. Money. So I can buy things. Not evil.

I have a choice how I spend my money (so do you!).

You're actually allowed to tell your kids "no, I am not buying you Disney dreck." Really and truly, you are. It's okay.

Honestly - the key is to focus less on what everyone else is doing and more on what you find important and valuable.

how about this, imagine a world where there are no commercials aimed at children under 12. seriously.

once again, money/stuff isn't the problem, :the problem is that money is being made at the expense of our children's innocence. how much easier is it to convince a child that a toy is neat than a parent? who has the maturity and critical thinking skills to say no? why should our children be exposed to the rampant consumerism and desires that are created by corporations?

and as for telling my children "no" about di$ney stuff, i _thought_ i was absurdly clear that i'm okay with that but i guess there is still an issue here so let me state:

i'm okay with telling my children no di$ney. i'm okay with explaining how advertisements are lying to get their money. i have no problem sharing this info with my children.

i have no issue with the idea that my efforts at teaching my children about the world are important to their growth and development. i'm not sure how this is specifically "indoctrination" whereas other views are considered "teaching". perhaps a little clarity here?

personally, i think if everyone keeps focusing on themselves instead of our society/world at large we're going to be in a lot of trouble. how about trying to change the world so we're not at the mercy of corporations profiting from our children?

[je309]

How many 3-year-olds do you know who are walking into Toys R Us unassisted, purchasing their favorite new toys? Their parents are choosing to buy them for them. If you are not interested in purchasing these toys for your children, don't. End of story. You can't parent for other people and if certain parents wish to risk their child's innocence by purchasing a Disney Princess doll, so be it. Corporations are not directly profiting from children. They are profiting from parents who are choosing to buy items for children. If you don't want to buy them, that's your choice. It's also the choice of millions of other parents to do so. It's also their choice to allow their child to share such toys at school for show and share.

[PlayaMama]

Originally Posted by je309

How many 3-year-olds do you know who are walking into Toys R Us unassisted, purchasing their favorite new toys? Their parents are choosing to buy them for them. If you are not interested in purchasing these toys for your children, don't. End of story. You can't parent for other people and if certain parents wish to risk their child's innocence by purchasing a Disney Princess doll, so be it. Corporations are not directly profiting from children. They are profiting from parents who are choosing to buy items for children. If you don't want to buy them, that's your choice. It's also the choice of millions of other parents to do so. It's also their choice to allow their child to share such toys at school for show and share.

well, honestly, it's the choice of the school right? isn't that what we're talking about? how the schools should be encouraging children to bring other items to show and tell?

to address your earlier points, of course the 3 yo aren't buying the toys for themselves, but they are desiring it. if the children didn't desire it how many parents do you think would buy the latest di$ney princess? i don't think this is the end of the story (obviously) since i think we should try to change advertising practices aimed at children.

if you have no problem with someone profiting from creating a desire in children then i think we're just gonna have to disagree. i think it's pretty slimy and i certainly don't think my child should be exposed to it in school just because you don't have a problem with it.

honestly, i'm getting a little tired of this argument, it seems like you've decided that since you personally don't have a problem with it there is no problem with it. i guess i'm just feeling a little unheard and a little

[je309]

to address your earlier points, of course the 3 yo aren't buying the toys for themselves, but they are desiring it. if the children didn't desire it how many parents do you think would buy the latest di$ney princess? i don't think this is the end of the story (obviously) since i think we should try to change advertising practices aimed at children.

That is just it. Kids are always going to desire something and it is their parents job to tell them no if they don't wish to purchase the item. It is not your job, your responsibility or your businesses in any way, shape or form to decide what other people's kids are watching on TV or buying as toys. I realize that you must have the best of intentions but there are many people who do not wish for you to save them and their children from something that they have no problem with. Raise your child how you see fit and everyone else will do the same.

Does your child go to school? Is this an issue in your school? I hope you're able to get it all worked out if so. As you stated, this is ultimately the school's decision and should not be changed just because one parent may have an issue with it.

It would be very interesting to do a study on children who are exposed to mainstream media advertising (Mattel, Disney, etc.) and those who are completely sheltered from it. How will they grow up? Who will be well-adjusted and successful? Who will be a responsible adult who makes good choices and is a productive member of society? My guess is that avoiding all commercialism will not affect the outcome at all. The children who grow up to be the things that we want all of our children to be will come from homes who nurture and love them, regardless of whether or not they allow Disney into their home.

[PlayaMama]

Originally Posted by je309

to address your earlier points, of course the 3 yo aren't buying the toys for themselves, but they are desiring it. if the children didn't desire it how many parents do you think would buy the latest di$ney princess? i don't think this is the end of the story (obviously) since i think we should try to change advertising practices aimed at children.

That is just it. Kids are always going to desire something and it is their parents job to tell them no if they don't wish to purchase the item. It is not your job, your responsibility or your businesses in any way, shape or form to decide what other people's kids are watching on TV or buying as toys. I realize that you must have the best of intentions but there are many people who do not wish for you to save them and their children from something that they have no problem with.

i'm not sure i agree that children are always going to desire something but my eldest is 4 so maybe that comes later.

i think it's apparent from this debate that i am not the only one that has a problem with the consumerism to which kids are exposed. i think that as a society we've decided what kids should be exposed to in the media and what they shouldn't (hence G, PG, R etc). i personally think that for the good of society we should make it illegal to advertise to children. isn't that how change comes about? through the actions of citizen's that care? i'm not trying to "save" anyone so please forgo the inflammatory religious rhetoric.

i hear that you don't think it's a problem. i get that. i would hope that you wouldn't entirely disregard any of the points that i've made but it appears that might be asking too much.

[je309]

You child desires nothing? He or she never asks for an ice cream cone, a treat, a new ball, a sticker, a sucker, a coloring book, etc? Wow. Impressive.

I wish you all the best with your quest. Peace.

[fadedgirl]

Originally Posted by je309

You can't parent for other people and if certain parents wish to risk their child's innocence by purchasing a Disney Princess doll, so be it.

Exactly. But the child whose parents do NOT want their child exposed to those items should not then be exposed to it during class at school where neither the child nor the parent has any choice in the matter. No one is telling anyone that you can't buy your kids whatever toys you deem appropriate for home use. This about what the school should or should not allow and yes, the school does have direct responsibility as to what children are exposed to during class!

We're talking toys @ show & tell in class folks, not phonics and math. I realize its great fun, but no child needs to bring their toys for exhibition during class time in order to receive a proper education. So since not bringing toys harms no one, but that bringing toys may directly interfere with how some parents are raising their children...

Should not the rights of the parents to control what their kids are exposed to (items have no bearing on their educational process and some would say, no business being in class in the first place) take precedence over the mere desire of other kids to bring things to school that are completely irrelevant to a proper education?