"share day" sounds nice, but... - Page 5

[supervee]

I was re-reading the OP, and you know what struck me, is that there is a competition over who's got the coolest stuff. I think that might be a problem, independent from the toy/not toy. The purpose of share day is to develop public speaking and listening skills, and the teacher should be nurturing those skills and discouraging any kind of competitive show-offiness. I think you could be show-offy with things from nature even, if you wanted to.

At one point, DS's teacher did away with bringing anything and just had them share a story. I believe it was 1st grade, though, and might not work for younger grades when they need a prop. But I sure liked that, b/c it did away with the stress of remembering the share object!

[PlayaMama]

Originally Posted by je309

You child desires nothing? He or she never asks for an ice cream cone, a treat, a new ball, a sticker, a sucker, a coloring book, etc? Wow. Impressive.

I wish you all the best with your quest. Peace.

well, we live 2 hours from anything so his exposure to all of those items is pretty limited. he does OCCASIONALLY desire things such as you've mentioned at our local small store, but it is about .2% of his existence, not ALWAYS as you had mentioned.

Originally Posted by fadedgirl

Exactly. But the child whose parents do NOT want their child exposed to those items should not then be exposed to it during class at school where neither the child nor the parent has any choice in the matter. No one is telling anyone that you can't buy your kids whatever toys you deem appropriate for home use. This about what the school should or should not allow and yes, the school does have direct responsibility as to what children are exposed to during class!

We're talking toys @ show & tell in class folks, not phonics and math. I realize its great fun, but no child needs to bring their toys for exhibition during class time in order to receive a proper education. So since not bringing toys harms no one, but that bringing toys may directly interfere with how some parents are raising their children...

Should not the rights of the parents to control what their kids are exposed to (items have no bearing on their educational process and some would say, no business being in class in the first place) take precedence over the mere desire of other kids to bring things to school that are completely irrelevant to a proper education?

thanks, i was starting to feel a little lonely in here.

[GuildJenn]

Originally Posted by fadedgirl

Exactly. But the child whose parents do NOT want their child exposed to those items should not then be exposed to it during class at school where neither the child nor the parent has any choice in the matter. No one is telling anyone that you can't buy your kids whatever toys you deem appropriate for home use. This about what the school should or should not allow and yes, the school does have direct responsibility as to what children are exposed to during class!

We're talking toys @ show & tell in class folks, not phonics and math. I realize its great fun, but no child needs to bring their toys for exhibition during class time in order to receive a proper education. So since not bringing toys harms no one, but that bringing toys may directly interfere with how some parents are raising their children...

Should not the rights of the parents to control what their kids are exposed to (items have no bearing on their educational process and some would say, no business being in class in the first place) take precedence over the mere desire of other kids to bring things to school that are completely irrelevant to a proper education?

Well, I think a lot of teachers would see inviting kids to bring their own stuff into the classroom as both supporting learning and supporting the parents' values.

I think the issue here is twofold:

1. Is the show and tell not being done well, and fostering competition.
2. Can you save your child from the influence of peers in the classroom, or from even coming across a commercial item.

My stance would be #1, concern. #2, not a concern. I'm still not sure which situation the OP is in.

But I can certainly say that even in a pretty non-commercial Montessori, kids talk about their toys, hide their toys in their pockets, and compare notes. Some kids might also, *gasp*, talk about being vegan or protecting the planet by not getting plastic bags. In my radical opinion, it is okay for kids to communicate about what's important to them, whether that's a Barbie doll, a Waldorf playsilk, or recycling cans. Or imaginary dragons (although this is so cool, I'm tempted to put the pressure on!! )

I don't mind a teacher getting into that and tapping into the kids' interests as long as the teacher is guiding appropriately.

I'm not really concerned that his friends' Diego shoes or Lego Star Wars toys are going to ruin my son. But if I were, I would have to have chosen a very controlled environment. Even our local Waldorf seemed to have a lot of parents talking about their engineered bamboo floors... or Priuses...

[PlayaMama]

Originally Posted by GuildJenn

. Or imaginary dragons (although this is so cool, I'm tempted to put the pressure on!! )

heh, me too!

[runes]

Originally Posted by *Erin*

maybe you didnt say it, i don't know, but that's what the general populace is assuming, no? that the fancy toys are the kids-with-moneys' belongings? i would assume that. it's the exeption that the person behind the wheel of the Bentley is poor, i don't think i'd be off in that assumption. at least, that's the way it is in my experience. and yes, of course it's contradictory to that to say the wealthy people i know have the least stuff.

people are not always easily fit into a box.

the whole thing, it's just so messy, isnt it maybe i did make your point for you. so? why should a child not be allowed to bring a favorite toy, even if their favorite toy is expensive? should the child who gets to have alot of cool toys lie and bring a cheaper toy to make the kids without lots of cool toys feel better? cause that's not life. my dd is cool with the fact that she doesnt have the fancy stuff her buddies may have. i dont get to have the cool car her friend's mama drives. im ok with that. that's life. i agree kids should be protected and sheltered from the harshness of things as long as possible, but to me, this isnt harsh.

so...

yes, i still do think it's a fantastic teaching moment. most things in life are, for us anyway. it has been for me, also. i'm a few years down the road from the first discussion of stuff and money, she's come around again, at age 6, to seeing the whole issue differently now that she's older. again, very interesting and wonderful discussions.

you may have enjoyed being that fly.

peace!

if the fave toy thing is an issue, maybe you could suggest some alternative. i like the idea of kids bringing a nature thing instead, as pp's mentioned-it's creative, and there's bound to be lots of opportunities for learning there.

I deliberately worded my post to make it neutral, because it is irrelevant to the discussion about who specifically has the most toys. The salient point is if there is a difference.

The Bentley example doesn't fly, we are not talking about toys that cost $200,000.

And it's not the cost of the toys that is the issue, it's the marketing, commercialism and consumerism. The cost is actually irrelevant to the discussion as well.

Someone cited an example of a toy that was given as a gift from a relative. Clearly the child's parents didn't buy that toy so their income level is again, irrelevant. Here is a perfect example of what some of us are talking about. Instead of having the child bring in the toy that he/she is so very excited about, why not have the child bring in a photo of the very cherished relative that they love so much and just so happened to bring them a toy? It would be nice if the highlight was the relationship with the person, not the attachment to the object.

It is in subtle ways like this that our children are taught to be oriented towards material possessions. What is so bad about trying to avoid that?

(Please don't answer the question with "that's life". I'm asking for more than that, thanks.)

[GuildJenn]

Originally Posted by kidspiration

I deliberately worded my post to make it neutral, because it is irrelevant to the discussion about who specifically has the most toys. The salient point is if there is a difference.

The Bentley example doesn't fly, we are not talking about toys that cost $200,000.

And it's not the cost of the toys that is the issue, it's the marketing, commercialism and consumerism. The cost is actually irrelevant to the discussion as well.

Someone cited an example of a toy that was given as a gift from a relative. Clearly the child's parents didn't buy that toy so their income level is again, irrelevant. Here is a perfect example of what some of us are talking about. Instead of having the child bring in the toy that he/she is so very excited about, why not have the child bring in a photo of the very cherished relative that they love so much and just so happened to bring them a toy? It would be nice if the highlight was the relationship with the person, not the attachment to the object.

It is in subtle ways like this that our children are taught to be oriented towards material possessions. What is so bad about trying to avoid that?

(Please don't answer the question with "that's life". I'm asking for more than that, thanks.)

I'm with you on avoiding it where we can, but I'm not sure it's fair to try to make 20 other families/children avoid it. They may not have the same problem with it. Or they may just be scooping something up at the last minute.

And I'm not sure schools are required to be bastions of anti-materialism either, unless that's a part of their mandate like a Waldorf or some Montessoris. I'd hope that they do, however, see fostering a caring and not err - show-offy and competitive environment.

In other words I don't think a Disney toy interferes with learning. But I do think making kids feel bad that they don't have any does. So there is a line there somewhere.

I'm really curious, if the OP has a chance to read this, about what's going on in this particular classroom.

[messy mama]

If you're going to ban Disney/superhero toys, then you better ban Disney/superhero clothes, shoes, backpacks, and lunch boxes. Other peoples' hideous taste in children's wear may corrupt your child into wanting it also.

I don't buy character items like those mentioned. If my kids ask for them, and they have, the answer is NO! It always has been. It's quite simple really. Our family doesn't buy that stuff.

[EXOLAX]

Originally Posted by GuildJenn

I'm with you on avoiding it where we can, but I'm not sure it's fair to try to make 20 other families/children avoid it. They may not have the same problem with it. Or they may just be scooping something up at the last minute.

Agreed. I'll also point out that there are some parents who are materialistic and who also need to have the latest, greatest, thing-a-ma-jig who are raising mini versions of themselves. They surely wouldn't care, and most likely enjoy their children bringing in a toy that is coveted by others. FWIW our school has a ban on ipods, ds's, cell phones etc.. It surely hasn't stopped some kids from sneaking these items in to show them off on the playground, and I heard a mom tell her child to make sure no teachers saw it.

There's not much we can do about the mom/dad who supports their kids bringing in something specifically to "show off". Much of it does depend on the nature of the class. It could be the OP has a child in a class where the current focus is on the toys. The environment could have become competitive. In an instance like this it would be hard to determine the cause without knowing more detail... it could be that the teacher has specifically said "bring in a toy from home", or that the teacher is not using it herself as an opportunity to explore different things. It could be the class is full of 'Queen Bee mom's and King Pin dad's' and they are helping to foster an environment of materialism and competition.

Either way, I don't mind show and tell, but in our case it has always been just that. If it turned into 'show off and tell' and our DD felt like she wasn't in an environment where her desire to bring in things outside the norm was no longer acceptable then I would view our situation differently. I do know even in DD's class it is 'show off and tell' for some kids, but thankfully DD hasn't been sucked into it, and it doesn't seem to be the prevailing norm as in the OP's case.

The prevailing view in our society is not the norm here on MDC or this thread. While many here may avoid branded items I would venture to presume that the majority of our society flocks to them. Parents fall prey to wanting the passing fancy of the day for their kids, with or without their children's influences. This can come in any community though (wanting the latest barbie, webkinz, build-a-bear, clothes, wooden waldorf toys, Montessori manipulative's....).

I imagine one could put a ban on toys for show and tell, but I also wonder how that could impact some families. Some kids w/o a feeling of attachment to an item will be more reluctant to talk about it. (I'm picturing a shy child having to talk about a stirring spoon, or working parents scrambling at the last minute to pick up a rock from the parking lot on the way to school.) Sadly not every family has books for their kids, or a basket of nature items, or projects they've done at home. I think the challenge for teachers in this situation is to not be exclusive.

[supervee]

LOL once my son had to share a rock from the parking lot.

[fadedgirl]

Originally Posted by GuildJenn

I'm with you on avoiding it where we can, but I'm not sure it's fair to try to make 20 other families/children avoid it.

No one is trying to make anyone else avoid it nor does anyone think that kids aren't going to see these items. But kids wearing character clothes, backpacks or bringing character lunch boxes to school is categorically different then having the teacher dedicate class time to the presentation of such items.

[GuildJenn]

Originally Posted by fadedgirl

No one is trying to make anyone else avoid it nor does anyone think that kids aren't going to see these items. But kids wearing character clothes, backpacks or bringing character lunch boxes to school is categorically different then having the teacher dedicate class time to the presentation of such items.

Yes and no.

Again I can't comment on the OP's particular classroom, but teachers generally speaking don't wake up in the morning to declare their love to Disney or something. The reason that show and tell/share persists is that it is a way to bring what kids are interested in into the classroom.

Sorry, but I think that's fine. Am I thrilled that what some kids are into is Pokemon? No, but to me it's really no different than a unit on medieval tapestries or Thai culture. It's just culture. Sure, it's a materialistic culture... but if that's what the kids are into, that's what they're into.

Talking about and showing things in an open and interesting way is just that.

[dancingmama]

I am totally flummoxed by this conversation. I can't understand why anyone would object to kids bringing in non-toy items. I can't see why this would in any way stifle anybodies joy in sharing. I can't believe that a child couldn't get excited about sharing something s/he made or found, etc.

Also....

Originally Posted by rabrog

IMO, if you don't want your child to see the commerialism, don't go to a mainstream preschool or mainstream private school. Those are the options.
If you're that upset by it, you need to homeschool or find a school that fits with your parenting philosophy better.

Jenn

Seriously??? That's it? If you don't like it, leave? This should be a deal-breaker? Good grief, what ever happened to parent input and involvement in the classroom, in the school? In my experience, the right kind of involvement by parents (such as this totally benign suggestion which would probably be welcomed by most reasonable teachers) really helps improve the classroom environment. So... just like it or leave?

[je309]

Originally Posted by dancingmama

Seriously??? That's it? If you don't like it, leave? This should be a deal-breaker? Good grief, what ever happened to parent input and involvement in the classroom, in the school? In my experience, the right kind of involvement by parents (such as this totally benign suggestion which would probably be welcomed by most reasonable teachers) really helps improve the classroom environment. So... just like it or leave?

I honestly think all she's saying here is that you cannot control the clothing people put on their children in a public school (not to mention character lunch boxes, shoes, hats, gloves, and the list goes on and on). Even at the private school my kids go to they see lunch boxes, back packs, etc. that have disney (or whatever else) characters on them. They do wear uniforms but those other little items are still in the school. Unless you do plan to homeschool your child, you will run into things like this, regardless of the rules of show and share.

[messy mama]

Originally Posted by fadedgirl

No one is trying to make anyone else avoid it nor does anyone think that kids aren't going to see these items. But kids wearing character clothes, backpacks or bringing character lunch boxes to school is categorically different then having the teacher dedicate class time to the presentation of such items.

No they're not trying to make others avoid it, they're trying to change other people's way of doing things to fit into to their own personal agenda and ideals.

The teacher isn't dedicating class time to the presentation of Disney etc. She/he is dedicating class time to the presentation of things each child wants to share. Who are you (general you) to think you have a right to decide what Polly Princesslover is allowed to feel is special to her? Maybe she doesn't like rocks.

Not once has my child ever come home to tell me he wants what someone else shared. But he has come home asking if he can have a Spiderman lunch box like Stevie. He also wanted an Incredible Hulk back pack. Not because someone shared it either, but because someone just happened to have it.

[messy mama]

Originally Posted by dancingmama

I am totally flummoxed by this conversation. I can't understand why anyone would object to kids bringing in non-toy items. I can't see why this would in any way stifle anybodies joy in sharing. I can't believe that a child couldn't get excited about sharing something s/he made or found, etc.

I'm sorry I may have missed this, but who said they object to kids bringing in non-toy items?

[dancingmama]

Originally Posted by je309

I honestly think all she's saying here is that you cannot control the clothing people put on their children in a public school (not to mention character lunch boxes, shoes, hats, gloves, and the list goes on and on). Even at the private school my kids go to they see lunch boxes, back packs, etc. that have disney (or whatever else) characters on them. They do wear uniforms but those other little items are still in the school. Unless you do plan to homeschool your child, you will run into things like this, regardless of the rules of show and share.

But the OP is not trying to control ALL of it. She's just trying to limit what has, in the case of this particular classroom, become a virtual showcase for it.

[dancingmama]

Originally Posted by messy mama

I'm sorry I may have missed this, but who said they object to kids bringing in non-toy items?

No, I meant limiting the show and tell to non-toy items only.

[messy mama]

Originally Posted by dancingmama

No, I meant limiting the show and tell to non-toy items only.

Oh OK.

It would be nice. And it would work great for my kid. But where would it end.

Since the beginning of the year my DS couldn't wait for "F" week. He talked about ever since sharing began. He was going to take a football. His share day is Friday and I kid you not, the minute he walked in the door Thur. after school he was looking for that football. As soon as he found it (which was easy, he sleeps w/ it) he put it in his backpack.

Some people here, I'm sure, have an objection to football. Especially a Nike football. I think he would be really upset if a parent had these objections and made it to where he would not have been allowed to take his beloved football to school.

Maybe they could have a no toy rule, but make an exception a few weeks out of the year.

[je309]

I guess I just don't see how one is all that different than the other. Why is not OK to spend 5 minutes of class time for a child to share an item but it's perfectly fine for the kids to show each other their new backpacks, lunchboxes, etc. In the child's eyes, is that any different? Is the exposure more severe if it happens in the classroom vs. in the hall outside the classroom? My son could sit and stare at Joey's spiderman shoes during story time, which would be no different IMO.... I guess I just don't see where this will end.

[dancingmama]

Originally Posted by je309

I guess I just don't see how one is all that different than the other. Why is not OK to spend 5 minutes of class time for a child to share an item but it's perfectly fine for the kids to show each other their new backpacks, lunchboxes, etc. In the child's eyes, is that any different? Is the exposure more severe if it happens in the classroom vs. in the hall outside the classroom? My son could sit and stare at Joey's spiderman shoes during story time, which would be no different IMO.... I guess I just don't see where this will end.

I guess we'll just have to disagree on this one. I see quite a large qualitative difference between Joey showing Sara his cool new lunchbox on their way to lunch, and an organized, focused group where everyone has to sit down and listen to Joey describe some new coveted toy in detail. It almost seems set-up to create overt focus on the object... I can't imagine a more effective advertising scheme.