what are the benefits of nursing a 4y/o?

[transylvania_mom]

My soon-to-be 4 y/o still nurses once or twice a day. He is very attached to nursing, very independent during the day, but he *needs* to nurse at bedtime. We're expecting a baby in October and my biggest fear is that it will be a lot more difficult to wean him then than now. Should I take the opportunity and wean him now?

I don't *think* it will be difficult to tandem nurse; he'll be 5 by then and probably won't nurse more than now and already complies with my requests to nurse later etc.

What do you think?
(I think I need a pep talk )

[KSLaura]

: I'm interested to see responses.

There are days I wished I weaned my 3yo while I was pregnant. I could never force her to quit though. How could I take away the thing she loves most in life...

[SereneBabe]

Hmmm... well, you're here in the CLW forum, so, you must want to follow your child's lead here, yes?

I guess the answer I have is that the benefit in nursing your son when he needs it, no matter his age, is that you are building a deep trust in the universe for him. He can let his needs be known, and they can be met. The foundation you are giving him is so strong!

I will add, by the way, that I'm due in May and my 5.5 y.o. just finished nursing in December. I'm freely admit I'm relieved as I didn't want to tandem. So, I guess my final comment is to take it a day at a time, kwim?

[alegna]

My dd still clearly needs it. She nursed through pregnancy (actually a pregnancy and a half as I had a m/c) and still nurses.

What are the benefits at 4? Same as at 3 or 2.

-Angela

[HappyHelpmate]

Since you are in the CLW forum, I'm sure you'd prefer to let him stop when HE's ready. Plus, you're probly right that his need to nurse won't increase or anything, and since he's already complying with your requests to nurse later, there shouldn't be too much problem with his nursing timing interfering with the new baby's.

Here's my story- maybe it will scare you away from weaning. I'm due to have our next child in March. I REALLY wanted to keep nursing my LO who is turning 2 this Saturday, I was even prepared to tandem nurse, but the nipple pain was too much for me, and I found myself having crazy feelings of resentment toward him for still nursing, I guess because of the hormones, so I reluctantly decided to wean. DH wasn't supportive of tandem nursing and actually WANTED me to wean before the new baby comes in March, so that made it harder to stick it out. I weaned starting in October, and the last nursing was in November. It was REALLY hard on him emotionally for the next 4-6 weeks. He STILL asks to nurse occasionally when he sees my shirt off, etc. And it just kills me, because DH's family has been "so proud" of me for weaning him, even though I've made it clear that the change in his behavior (fussiness, less cheerful) has been in relation to the weaning. But on a side note, we did discover he had a nut allergy that started about the time weaning started, so now I'm not altogether sure that his behavior was entirely from the weaning or if it was because he felt bad for weeks from eating nuts every day. Either way, though, it would've been easier to go through the ordeal with the allergy, had he still had the comfort of nursing available. So there ya go!
Keep on Nursing, Mama!

[meemee]

unless you really, really feel VERY STRONGLY about nursing your 4 year old i would sya hang on.

i am now still nursing a 6 1/2 year old. my milk dried when seh was 3 and she spends 3 nights a week at her dad's.

so nursing is still HUUUUUUUUGE for her. for her its emotional. purely emotional. nothing soothes her like nursing can. she only nurses maybe once or twice at bedtime or wakeup for maybe 30 secs or a minute.

but when she is upset she still feels my nipples outside my shirt to comfort herself.

nursing has been suuuuuuuuuuuch a huge tool for 'discipline'. it has comforted her and reassured her like nothing else in the world. NOTHING. for her nothing compares to nursing.

she is also a v. oral child. needs a lot of oral stimulation. uses it v. regularly. she stopped eating things v. v. early on but put things in her mouth - even today to feel the texture or shape with her mouth.

bfeeding meets a need of my dd that nothing else does to the degree that it does.

ETA: i was trying to come up with an adult explanation of what nursing is like for her. and i think its like therapy for her.

now i dont knwo what its like tandem nursing. but i was prepared that if i did have another baby i would tandem just coz i could see how imp. nursing was for my dd.

[kittibgud]

I don't want to rain on anyone's parade, but what is the benefit of forcenursing kids who are trying to wean themselves? Especially without milkflow? I mean, I get the closeness and bonding and calming things...it just seems to me that by 6 1/2, a kid should be letting go and learning not to play with mommies boobs and how to handle things without having to suck on something. Would you send the child to school with a binky to self calm? Don't you wonder what endless breastfeeding will do to your child when they get older? Its one thing to know your mom breastfed you, its another to actually have kept it up long enough to remember it. Are there some kind of theories behind breastfeeding for so long?

Really, I want to know, I am not trying to deny or belittle your choices. It just seems so odd to me to have the child nurse for so long, I would like to know if its for "reasons" or if its a simple "preference" kind of thing. Thanks so much for your answers!

[alegna]

Originally Posted by kittibgud

I don't want to rain on anyone's parade, but what is the benefit of forcenursing kids who are trying to wean themselves? Especially without milkflow? I mean, I get the closeness and bonding and calming things...it just seems to me that by 6 1/2, a kid should be letting go and learning not to play with mommies boobs and how to handle things without having to suck on something. Would you send the child to school with a binky to self calm? Don't you wonder what endless breastfeeding will do to your child when they get older? Its one thing to know your mom breastfed you, its another to actually have kept it up long enough to remember it. Are there some kind of theories behind breastfeeding for so long?

Really, I want to know, I am not trying to deny or belittle your choices. It just seems so odd to me to have the child nurse for so long, I would like to know if its for "reasons" or if its a simple "preference" kind of thing. Thanks so much for your answers!

No one here is discussing "forcenursing" The idea is pretty preposterous.

I know exactly what "endless breastfeeding" will do to my child as she gets older. She will be centered. She will know that she is loved. She will know that mom is there for her.

The theories are that it is normal for humans to breastfeed until somewhere between 4 and 7 years. Normal. The way the species is designed. The way it has evolved over millions of years.

Back to the idea of forcing....

I just told my dd (who is 4.5yrs fwiw) that no, I wouldn't nurse her right now... as I've already nursed her 3-4 times since I woke up. I couldn't FORCE her to nurse if I wanted to. 99.99% of the time I would be THRILLED if she weaned right now. She's not ready. I am following her lead. I trust her to know her own needs and her own body. I trusted her to know when she needed to sleep with us and I trusted her to know when she was ready for her own bed. She moved to her own bed a few months back all on her own.

-Angela

[annettemarie]

Please keep the forum guidelines in mind when posting:

This is a reminder to all members to post appropriate threads in the CLW forum. To make this easier for you we have drawn up some guidelines about what the CLW forum should encompass:

1. Education and Awareness for members who don't know about CLW or who only have limited, biased information about it.

Education is a focus of this forum, but we do ask that you please keep both the questions and the answers respectful. Thank you!

[HappyHelpmate]

Originally Posted by kittibgud

Really, I want to know, I am not trying to deny or belittle your choices. It just seems so odd to me to have the child nurse for so long, I would like to know if its for "reasons" or if its a simple "preference" kind of thing. Thanks so much for your answers!

Actually, there is a whole thread about the benefits of CLW that is stickied here at the top of the Child-Led Weaning forum. Here's the link: http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=596711

I was just looking at it the other day, and thinking what helpful information is in that thread. On page two of the thread I believe there is a post including several good resource pages with much information about the existing research regarding child-led weaning. Like a PP mentioned, the natural age of weaning for humans, considering our biological makeup seems to be between 4-7 yrs according to the research, and there are almost endless benefits cited, including continued increased immunity, breastmilk is still the most balanced healthful food for a human regardless of age, increases independence and emotional security, related to higher IQ, produces more well-adjusted older children and adults than those weaned earlier, and on and on. There are actually no known negative side effects of allowing a child to nurse as long as he/she desires.
HTH!

[transylvania_mom]

Originally Posted by kittibgud

I don't want to rain on anyone's parade, but what is the benefit of forcenursing kids who are trying to wean themselves? Especially without milkflow? I mean, I get the closeness and bonding and calming things...it just seems to me that by 6 1/2, a kid should be letting go and learning not to play with mommies boobs and how to handle things without having to suck on something. Would you send the child to school with a binky to self calm? Don't you wonder what endless breastfeeding will do to your child when they get older? Its one thing to know your mom breastfed you, its another to actually have kept it up long enough to remember it. Are there some kind of theories behind breastfeeding for so long?

Really, I want to know, I am not trying to deny or belittle your choices. It just seems so odd to me to have the child nurse for so long, I would like to know if its for "reasons" or if its a simple "preference" kind of thing. Thanks so much for your answers!

lol, you can't force nurse a child. I have recurrent plugged ducts and the best "treatment" for these is nursing; but no matter how much I was offering, when ds didn't WANT to nurse any more, he just wouldn't. I couldn't do anything to persuade him.

"Play with mommy's boobs"... I find your words quite demeaning. My 4 y/o is a very independent child, very capable to self calm and this is mainly because of nursing. You can't teach a child to self calm by taking away his comfort items, but by reassuring him each time he needs a little help to figure out things for himself. My son nurses at bedtime and sometimes when he wakes up, so he doesn't need to "suck on something" all the time. Oh, and I have plenty of milk.

Yes, I guess you can call it a simple "preference". Most children would prefer to nurse well into toddlerhood; it's not about *my* preference.

[nettieferg]

Originally Posted by transylvania_mom

"Play with mommy's boobs"... Oh, and I have plenty of milk.

Just to clarify . . . the poster, Meemee, mentioned that HER milk had dried up when said child was 3 (3 and a half years ago) -- and also that her 6 1/2 rubs her mama's nipples when she is feeling anxious. I don't think it is a strange question to wonder at DRY suckling for 3 1/2 years . . . not saying anything wrong with it -- but could someone explain the benefit? Or, is it simply psychological (like the kids who hang on to the thumb, pacifier(*ME*), or blankie(*also ME*) for example)? Maybe the other poster was wondering if the 6.5 could be taught other coping mechanisms, since mommy can't go with her to school, for example. But, I think that gets in to the realm of what that particular family needs to sort out for themselves -- and who among us wants to justify OUR choices to everyone??! ;-)

So - maybe asking an honest question would be alright, just curious - but hate to make any judgements, as it sounds like Meemee is a really caring mom.

-J

[contactmaya]

I am always grateful i am still nursing my 3 1/2 year old when that stomach bug comes around. I know i can still nourish him, and know he's getting the antibodies so that he will get better faster.

[pixiepunk]

first i'll qualify my remarks by saying that i do not personally practice CLW. it is an ideal to me, but not something i have been able to manage. so i've done very gentle MLW at age 3 for DD1 and age 3.5 for DS. just felt the need to inject that so readers understand where i'm coming from.

in response to the question about whether a 6.5 yo could be taught other mechanisms, etc... well, doesn't it depend on the child? and isn't the mother the best, most qualified person to make that decision? clearly, i felt that my 3 and 3.5 yo were at an age where their attachment to nursing was limited enough that i could remove it gently without causing a lot of trauma. and i was right. but that doesn't mean that someone else's child of the exact same age would be able to. or that a child who was younger wouldn't. it was what worked for *my* family, and i wouldn't expect it to work in the same way for anyone else (in fact, it didn't work exactly the same way with DD1 and DS).

just as there are kids who develop differently in other areas (rolling over, sitting up, walking, talking, learning to read, ride a bike...) there is a huge range of when a child will be ready to be done nursing (or even ready to be gently lead in that direction). every child develops emotionally, physically, mentally, spiritually at his/her own pace. it is up to each mother to decide what her comfort level is, and what her child's needs are, and try to reach some happy place where she remains comfortable while meeting her child's needs. if a child needs nursing, and a mother feels comfortable to continue doing it, that is the ideal situation. the child's need will eventually extinguish as s/he develops for him/herself other mechanisms.

to the OP - all i can say is that you know better than anyone how you feel and how your child feels. if you feel committed to CLW, don't let a little anxiety over tandem nursing stop you. some of that anxiety is likely to be just in relation to being a mama again in general, and wondering how the siblings will relate to each other, etc. there are wonderful moments and hard moments to introducing a new member to the family, whether you're tandem nursing or not (i've tandemed twice, FWIW). October is also a long time away. it's impossible to say whether your DS will still have that same attachment to nursing that he does now. he might self-wean before then. he might start nursing more.

If you haven't yet read it, Adventures in Tandem Nursing is a fantastic book. it helped me tremendously in my nursing through pregnancy and tandem nursing journeys.

[milkybean]

Originally Posted by nettieferg

I don't think it is a strange question to wonder at DRY suckling for 3 1/2 years . . . not saying anything wrong with it -- but could someone explain the benefit?

Important to notice she says her DD nurses for 30-60 seconds.


I think the best person to explain the benefit is the child! My child just says he loves it, that it makes him feel warm, and that's about all I can get out of him. He also says he loves my "bweastses", and when I ask him why, he says because he can drink milk from my nipples. So it's a bit of circular logic, but that's what he says, and he's the expert!


I myself was nursed until I was forcibly weaned at 4. I was weaned b/c my brother self-weaned at 2, and my mom had to get to work, we had to go to Montessori, and that was that. I instantly started getting sick! How charming of me! Developed allergies to dairy and eggs, got scarlet fever, and so on. Sick sick sick. My body was screaming that I NEEDED that milk, but it was an absolute impossibility for my mom at that time (she'd finally divorced my then-useless dad).

My brothers (one full and two half) each self-weaned at 2. Their bodies, hearts, and minds didn't need it!

My half-sister, full sister to my half-brothers, born 25 years after me...she nearly went to 5. Her mom was in college (later in life college), then she was working part-time while also in nursing school. But still my sister continued. My stepmom had health problems...Cady continued. My stepmom had a total hysterectomy b/c of a big huge tumor...after a week or so of recovery and big drugs...my sister continued. It was THAT important to her. Finally she stopped on her own around 5.


Who knows why some kids find it important and some kids don't? Kids that age don't tend to give the full answer....they probably don't even think about it.

[Super Glue Mommy]

I just want to say you can't FORCE a child to nurse. I have even encouraged my older weaned babies (2 and 3 1/2) to nurse when they show interest, but the don't want to. it would be impossible for me to make them latch on and nurse. impossible.

[contactmaya]

ps. i didnt mention that i nursed my 3 1/2 year old through my pregnancy and now together with his baby brother. He continued to nurse 2-3 times a day when the baby was born and it was no big deal. he still nurses now a little less often, and it helps if he's not feeling well, or just in general, it makes him happy. It sounds to me like youre afraid something might happen if you keep nursing him. But thats making a decision out of fear. You dont know what will happen, most likely, continuing to nurse him will make things easier for you. If it were me, (and it was) just let it be, and let him decide. 'Course, you cant really predict. But my guess is, the more a mother wants the kid to wean, the more a child will pick up on it, and want to nurse all the more....

[nettieferg]

Originally Posted by milkybean

Important to notice she says her DD nurses for 30-60 seconds.

I think the best person to explain the benefit is the child! My child just says he loves it, that it makes him feel warm, and that's about all I can get out of him. He also says he loves my "bweastses", and when I ask him why, he says because he can drink milk from my nipples. So it's a bit of circular logic, but that's what he says, and he's the expert!

Who knows why some kids find it important and some kids don't? Kids that age don't tend to give the full answer....they probably don't even think about it.

I think most 6.5 year olds have answers for things . . . provided they are not special needs. I think extended BF is great! The milk is nutritious and DOES protect against illness (in fact, I am currently investigating pumping BM for my post-breast cancer mama, who is certainly over the age of 6.5).

My questions were at DRY NURSING since the LO was 3 . . . The poster said her DD was currently 6.5, and had been DRY nursing for the last 3.5 years. If there is no milk, then there is no nutritive value, thus it is the potential equivalent of a pacifier/thumb (and these types of habits are usually broken around 1st grade). I have nothing but praise for a WET NURSING 6 year old.

As I said, it was just a question.

[alegna]

Originally Posted by nettieferg

I think most 6.5 year olds have answers for things . . . provided they are not special needs. I think extended BF is great! The milk is nutritious and DOES protect against illness (in fact, I am currently investigating pumping BM for my post-breast cancer mama, who is certainly over the age of 6.5).

My questions were at DRY NURSING since the LO was 3 . . . The poster said her DD was currently 6.5, and had been DRY nursing for the last 3.5 years. If there is no milk, then there is no nutritive value, thus it is the potential equivalent of a pacifier/thumb (and these types of habits are usually broken around 1st grade). I have nothing but praise for a WET NURSING 6 year old.

As I said, it was just a question.

Many older nurslings nurse through mom's pregnancy, during which there is no milk.

Also, IME, it's hard to say when there is *no* milk vs. *little* milk.

-Angela

[MichelleAnnette]

Originally Posted by kittibgud

Its one thing to know your mom breastfed you, its another to actually have kept it up long enough to remember it.

I remember nursing. My mom nursed me until my 6th birthday, at which point I agreed to wean. If everyone had as good of a relationship with their moms as I have with mine, the world would be a much better place. I was 22 and having my first baby before I realized it was NOT normal to nurse a 6 year old. I've been a lactivist ever since.