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Discussion: What is literature?  

post #1 of 14
Thread Starter 
Simple question, but I'm trying to get at the argument that not all books are literature. That there are characteristics of literature that separates it from other books. I'm sure there are mamas here who are very educated in literature so I'm looking for a short primer of what is literature, what are its various genres and an easy and clear way to explain and present that to a book group that will focus on literature as opposed to books for entertainment or information.

Please add to this list of genres:
Classic Literature
Historical Fiction
Contemporary Literature
Theatrical Works
post #2 of 14
This is not a very cut and dry argument, but for me things that aren't genre fiction is literature. A story in and of itself without following a code of a genre like say horror or romance. Now, some books that would fall under a particular genre could also be literature. I think the quality of writing of some genre authors let them also be recognized by some as literature (i.s. Stephen King). Literature tries to do more than simply tell a story.
I categorize literature into Contemporary, Classic, and into Regional Literatures. Ex. Southern Literature and offshoot of that would be Appalachian Literature. Literature will entertain, but it is often clear that that isn't its only purpose. Literary Magazines are a great place to look for quick examples of what is going on now in literature.
post #3 of 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by eastkygal View Post
This is not a very cut and dry argument, but for me things that aren't genre fiction is literature. A story in and of itself without following a code of a genre like say horror or romance. Now, some books that would fall under a particular genre could also be literature.
Personally, I think there are too many examples of genre fiction that most people would classify as "literature" to accept that this alone creates a distinction between "literature" and non-literary fiction.

Frankenstein - not "literature"?
Dracula - not "literature"?
Brave New World - not "literature"?
1984 - not "literature"?
The Handmaid's Tale - not "literature"?
Jane Eyre - not "literature"?
Wuthering Heights - not "literature"?

I'm missing examples of Westerns and mysteries, but I'm sure I could come up with a few.

I also think "literature" isn't necesarily "fiction", but there may be a specific, academic definition that I am not aware of - limiting "literature" to fictional books.

Are you perhaps thinking of a distinction between "classics" and "popular" books (although that is also debatable)?

I'm interested in the responses you get.
post #4 of 14
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ms Apricot View Post
Personally, I think there are too many examples of genre fiction that most people would classify as "literature" to accept that this alone creates a distinction between "literature" and non-literary fiction.

Frankenstein - not "literature"?
Dracula - not "literature"?
Brave New World - not "literature"?
1984 - not "literature"?
The Handmaid's Tale - not "literature"?
Jane Eyre - not "literature"?
Wuthering Heights - not "literature"?

I'm missing examples of Westerns and mysteries, but I'm sure I could come up with a few.

I also think "literature" isn't necesarily "fiction", but there may be a specific, academic definition that I am not aware of - limiting "literature" to fictional books.

Are you perhaps thinking of a distinction between "classics" and "popular" books (although that is also debatable)?

I'm interested in the responses you get.
All the books that you listed, I classify as literature and I wouldn't be surprised if Jane Eyre is one of the first books that this book group reads together.

Now I feel challenged to name an example of Western "lit": I think "Brokeback Mountain" would be a good example-since it was a short story before it was a movie.

And wouldn't Sherlock Holmes be an example of mystery literature?

I think I know what you are getting at by the dichotomy of "classic" vs "popular" but that implies that it has withstood the test of time and recently published books could not possibly be "literary" and I think that is all together untrue. Because there's a difference between say the "Twilight" series and "The Girl with the Pearl Earring."

Here is kind of the definition of literature that I'm operating with this: Agree/disagree?

Literary implies that its scholarly and intellectual in nature dealing with themes that are not purely entertainment but somehow speak to the basic human condition, society and history.
post #5 of 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by jenneology View Post
A
Literary implies that its scholarly and intellectual in nature dealing with themes that are not purely entertainment but somehow speak to the basic human condition, society and history.
I find this topic fascinating. :

I often find people commenting how this book or that book is not a literature, or how this book, or that book is not worthy of attention because it's not "real" literature.

But I tend to disagree, and I personally believe that just because a book doesn't live up to someone's standards, it doesn't make it "non-literature". There is not a story that I read that I couldn't connect to some societal phenomenon, historical perspective, basic human condition, etc. Even if I didn't like the book, even when it's cheesy, and even when it's poorly written.

Let's face it, the language of Twilight, or basic romance paperbacks, or some of the popular fiction titles, including sci-fi, and mysteries might not be the most sophisticated, but it is literature, and whether we like to admit it or not, it reflects the time period it was written in and our lives in one way or another. Even the cheesiest romance can claim that it touches upon "the universal theme of love", or at the very lease "lust".

I think classic vs. non-classics can be defined with a bit more certainty. Otherwise, who is to tell us what books are not good enough to be literature? Who is the judge? And what happens when one person thinks it's literature, and another one is not?

To support my point, I wanted to add that if you look up definition of literature in the dictionary, then every book ever written will fall under at least one of the proposed definitions.
post #6 of 14
Ooh, a subject near and dear to my heart I have often pondered this question as well as mulled over it with my students. I think it is sometimes very difficult to sort texts into neat little piles labeled “literature” and “not literature.” Anytime we create a “canon of greats” we risk excluding texts that may be valuable. (Example: for centuries, women and non-white authors were excluded from the Western literary canon.) That being said, I think there are some qualities that set “really good” literature apart from other popular texts:

-Literature plunges us into the world as well as takes us out of it. Literature isn’t just about escapism--it addresses, sometimes obliquely, hard questions in life.
-Because of this, literature requires more from its readers--it is more demanding of our attention and our intellect. In return, we get what we give--our reward is some sort of insight, emotion, or newfound perspective.
-literary texts are usually more “open”--they invite interpretation and subjective response, often through symbols or other literary “tropes.” Best of all, they invite debate and discussion!

That said, one could gain insight and have a subjective response to a trashy, formulaic romance novel since it reflects ideas and ideals in our culture dealing with relationships and gender roles. In fact, whole departments in some universities are devoted to studying the impact of popular mass-market fiction. In addition, some popular texts are not really recognized as “literary” until well after their initial circulation--Dickens comes to mind, and even Shakespeare. So your question is bound up in quite a controversy!

Also, don’t forget that poetry and many nonfiction texts are also considered literature.
post #7 of 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ms Apricot View Post
Personally, I think there are too many examples of genre fiction that most people would classify as "literature" to accept that this alone creates a distinction between "literature" and non-literary fiction.

Frankenstein - not "literature"?
Dracula - not "literature"?
Brave New World - not "literature"?
1984 - not "literature"?
The Handmaid's Tale - not "literature"?
Jane Eyre - not "literature"?
Wuthering Heights - not "literature"?

I'm missing examples of Westerns and mysteries, but I'm sure I could come up with a few.

I also think "literature" isn't necesarily "fiction", but there may be a specific, academic definition that I am not aware of - limiting "literature" to fictional books.

Are you perhaps thinking of a distinction between "classics" and "popular" books (although that is also debatable)?

I'm interested in the responses you get.
This is definitely right. That is why I said that some genre fiction can be considered literature. I'm also speaking in the present. When Frankenstein was written it was a pretty revolutionary work. Jane Eyre is not a Harlequin Romance. So, I think the OP's recently posted definition is a good start. Literature deals with the state of humanity and is not just a snapshot of it. Also, literature is not only fiction as someone else mentioned. Now, we can think of genre fiction with "" around "genre". Yes, works will fall into a certain genre often times, but if it is literature there is more there.
post #8 of 14
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by morganlefay View Post
Ooh, a subject near and dear to my heart I have often pondered this question as well as mulled over it with my students. I think it is sometimes very difficult to sort texts into neat little piles labeled “literature” and “not literature.” Anytime we create a “canon of greats” we risk excluding texts that may be valuable. (Example: for centuries, women and non-white authors were excluded from the Western literary canon.) That being said, I think there are some qualities that set “really good” literature apart from other popular texts:

-Literature plunges us into the world as well as takes us out of it. Literature isn’t just about escapism--it addresses, sometimes obliquely, hard questions in life.
-Because of this, literature requires more from its readers--it is more demanding of our attention and our intellect. In return, we get what we give--our reward is some sort of insight, emotion, or newfound perspective.
-literary texts are usually more “open”--they invite interpretation and subjective response, often through symbols or other literary “tropes.” Best of all, they invite debate and discussion!

That said, one could gain insight and have a subjective response to a trashy, formulaic romance novel since it reflects ideas and ideals in our culture dealing with relationships and gender roles. In fact, whole departments in some universities are devoted to studying the impact of popular mass-market fiction. In addition, some popular texts are not really recognized as “literary” until well after their initial circulation--Dickens comes to mind, and even Shakespeare. So your question is bound up in quite a controversy!

Also, don’t forget that poetry and many nonfiction texts are also considered literature.
I like this! Thank you.

I suggested to my partner (we're conducting an Arts and Literature group with ladies from our church) that we have two nights where on each one we respectively discuss the questions: "What is art?" and "What is literature?" Its a group of very educated women so they could be very interesting discussions, but the risks of that are we might come away from that discussion without consensus, or accepting everything as art and literature, or angry with each other.

I do want to point out with the dictionary definition. Denotation provides a literal definition of word but rarely takes into account connotation. While the definition may be any book or work of writing (because poetry and theatrical works ought to be included), the connotation of the word literature is much more subjective. The connotation will be subjective and there will be disagreement because of that subjectivity.
post #9 of 14
Heck, even Shakespeare and Austen were excluded from the ideals of "literature" at one point.

I like to think that all authors are out there trying their best to create agood reading experience for people. For some, it will be based in certain genre traditions, or turning them on their heads. For others, it's a more general and classical approach. I think some books have more you can tear apart and discuss, but I have a hard time valuing any hard distinction.
post #10 of 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by jenneology View Post
I do want to point out with the dictionary definition. Denotation provides a literal definition of word but rarely takes into account connotation. While the definition may be any book or work of writing (because poetry and theatrical works ought to be included), the connotation of the word literature is much more subjective. The connotation will be subjective and there will be disagreement because of that subjectivity.
Oh, I guess I misunderstood the question in the original post. It is a very different thing to ask "what is literature", vs. asking "what is literature to you".

Some don't consider "Harry Potter" literature, yet I'm convinced that book will withstand the test of times, and our grandchildren will be reading it with their kids. So where does one draw the line?

* The book must touch on a universal theme. Well, I think every book does it in its own way, as well as allows the insight into the social standing it was written in.

* The book must be scholarly. What does it mean? There is not a book I read that didn't open up a new perspective to me, or didn't engage my mind. Granted, some books do it to a greater degree than others, but they all do it, kwim? Look at all the discussion about feminism, relationships, the effect of religion on the author, and debate about one character vs. another "a non literary" Twilight has evoke. The talk went on for 10 pages! The debate was deep enough, and it was inspired by the book, so is it qualified to be literature now?

* Of course Twilight is no Pride and Prejudice, and Southern Vampire Chronicles are no Sherlock Holmes, but they reflect our time much more so than Pride and Prejudice or Sherlock Holmes. They are about us, our society, and our good and bad. Does that make more "literary" since they inspired intellectual dialogue?

* What if the book draws attention of millions of readers, does it make it any more or less deserving of the title "literature"? I know I never produced a book that millions wanted to read, so I would find hard to judge any author as not "literary enough", if that author had such power over the imagination of millions of readers.

* I think distinguishing between the literary genres helps to settle a lot of questions. For example: Pride and Pejudice, Jane Eyre, Sherlock Holmes, etc. have earned the title of "classic literature". Twilight, Harry Potter, Stephen King's novels could be labeled as either modern literature, or fantasy literature, but still nothing less but literature. They are books, they engage imagination, they might not have demanding vocabulary, yet they make one think enough to want to read, discuss, and recommend the material to another.

* If we are to begin to make two shelves and sort books into literature vs. non literature... What books are we to put onto the "non literature" shelves, and who decides that my point of viewing a certain book as a work of literature is incorrect? What examples of fictional "non literature" can one give me?
post #11 of 14
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oriole View Post
Oh, I guess I misunderstood the question in the original post. It is a very different thing to ask "what is literature", vs. asking "what is literature to you".
Now you are misunderstanding. I don't need to ask you what is literature to me because I can answer that for myself. I am asking you (the collective you) what literature means to you. There are often denotations and connotations for words in our language and what this discussion gets at the heart at is what literature connotates for a variety of people.

I like your point about the Twilight series and for me as a reader it did hit on some themes that I felt were very literary, along the same lines as the book Tuck Everlasting. Harry Potter, I too agree. After all there is children's literature (there's a whole other topic) and teen lit as well (e.g The Giver).
post #12 of 14
This is probably not very technical, but this is how I have always looked at literature in terms of analogy.

You have gourmet meals. And then you have Burger King. They're both food, they both fill you up, but one of them is considered gourmet while the other is not. I think we all know why that is. Burger King can, of course, be tasty and enjoyable. But, compared to the gourmet it's very low in quality.

So, to me, there is literature and then there is junk food for the brain. Wuthering Heights, Dostoevsky, Tolstoy, etc., are literature. Danielle Steele or Jackie Collins is junk food for the brain.

I don't think there is anything wrong with some junk food for the brain. It's fun, easy, quick, etc. I also don't think junk food for the brain can't have it's lessons and questions. It can ... but the level of intellect or the level of deep thought required to ponder said lessons or questions is not the same as, say, the level needed for Tolstoy or Shakespeare. Personally, I think literature if vastly more interesting in terms of the questions and philosophical world views it poses.

Also, bad writing versus good writing distinguishes for me literature from junk food for the brain. I read Twilight, and slapped it into the junk food category simply because I thought the level of writing was fairly bad ... well, ok, and because I didn't think there were any lessons to ponder in it other than how not to have a co-dependent relationship with someone who wants to eat you. However, this doesn't mean I didn't think it was an easy read for pure entertainment. Sometimes we all need a little junk food for the brain.

Again, as I said, my definitions are not technical. Just my own understanding/viewpoint.
post #13 of 14
I think originality is important. A Harlequin romance is not literature, because it follows a predictable formula. You're not going to find any fresh new ideas there; it's not going to make you think about life in a new way. Good writing is unpredictable. The story is not like other stories you've read, and neither are the individual sentences.

Look at this example from a Barbie sticker storybook:
Quote:
Bells soon rang as Princess Rosella and Prince Antonio exchanged wedding vows. Ro, the beautiful island girl, had found her true family at last. But she would always treasure Sagi, Azul, and Tika, her family of animal friends. And they would all live happily ever after!
There is nothing the least bit original or interesting about any of those sentences.

Compare it with:
Quote:
Goodnight comb
And goodnight brush
Goodnight nobody
Goodnight mush
And goodnight to the old lady whispering "hush"
Goodnight stars
Goodnight air
Goodnight noises everywhere
Who else would have written "Goodnight nobody"? It's unexpected, it's original, it's part of why Goodnight Moon is literature (for little kids), and Barbie as The Island Princess is not.
post #14 of 14
Great example Daffodil.
For me the lines between literary and not can be a little blurry. I disagree that every author is attempting to do something new or comment on humanity. Some just want to write the formula, entertain, and get paid. Literature is art. Formula is craft. Combine art and craft and you get good writing.

I wrote a whole paper in high school English about why I considered Anne Rice novels literature. I wonder if I still do???
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