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Most young children are not read to on a daily basis. - Page 7

post #121 of 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by Super Glue Mommy View Post
For my daughter, I feel I would be depriving her not to read to her since its her favorite thing ever and we have "reading" time probably 15 minutes of each hour she is awake, and 1/2 an hour before bed. its a big part of the day, and its how she "gets her cup filled".
OMG - I'm glad none of my children have loved being read to that much. Spending that much time reading out loud would absolutely drain me. I'd probably end up spending more than half my time dreading the next bout of reading. I'm glad your dd is matched up with a mama who doesn't mind it.

Quote:
I think reading is important in general too, and there are a lot of children who are reading way below their age level because learning to read is harder after the age of 4, and most don't start learning to read until at least the age of 5.
That seems a bit off to me. Most of my grad class were reading at grade level, and I highly doubt that many of them learned to read before 4. I've only ever known a handful of kids who show any interest in learning before that age. DD is one of 11 grandchildren in our family, and she's the only one who showed any interest in reading or writing before age 4. (Three of the others are reading way above grade level, though.) DS2 will be 4 in July, and he's incredibly disinterested...makes me wonder sometimes if he's really mine! (He enjoys being read to, if the story is short, but likes made-up stories and songs just as much.)

It seems very strange that it's harder after age 4. I know I've come across references to data suggesting that many children aren't even ready to learn to read when they start school. I've just never heard that the optimal time to learn to read is before age 4...
post #122 of 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by Super Glue Mommy View Post
I think reading is important in general too, and there are a lot of children who are reading way below their age level because learning to read is harder after the age of 4, and most don't start learning to read until at least the age of 5. It's something MOST people need to know how to do. The reason why this comes up in debate so often is because we have too many children who are 7, 8, 9, 10 etc who CAN'T read, and don't want to learn. They sometimes get low self esteem from not being able to read.
We disagree about this, too. I've watched too many dc learn to read in huge leaps--seemingly overnight, in many cases--after age 4 to believe it is more difficult after age 4. I believe that most dc will learn to read naturally when their brain is ready, and for some dc it is 7 or later. I do agree that low self esteem can become a problem with later readers, but the problem there lies with the label of being "behind" imo, rather than with the actual age of learning to read.
post #123 of 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by Storm Bride View Post
OMG - I'm glad none of my children have loved being read to that much. Spending that much time reading out loud would absolutely drain me. I'd probably end up spending more than half my time dreading the next bout of reading. I'm glad your dd is matched up with a mama who doesn't mind it...
When my dd was a preschool-age (only dc, not in preschool), we spent 4 hours a day reading aloud. It was tiring, but, she loved it and and I willing, and we were reading relatively interesting things. And, when we stopped reading, she would immediately pop in a book on tape
post #124 of 166
it is easiest for them to learn then, before the age of 4 the brain is developing much quicker then it does after the age of 4. I learned to read in school too, and was an excellent reader and read above grade level too. I am not saying children can't learn because they learn at school. You are also faced with the fact there ARE a lot of parents who rely to heavily on school to teach their children. 1 adults to 20+ students trying to teach READING and the parents dont read to them at home or teach them? thats why some children fall behind... not all.

one teacher writes:
"I have about 45 out of 150 students reading on a 1st - 3rd grade reading level. I teach 7th grade science and am struggling with teaching the content to these students. I would appreciate any advice that someone has so that I can better teach my content to these students."

I dont mind reading at all, she makes it more into a game. I revel in anything my children love. to see her so in love with an activity even if I didnt like it I would enjoy it simply because they enjoy it and I love to see my children filled with joy. I am sure a loving mother like yourself would love reading aloud too if you child was bursting at the seems with happiness when you shared that time doing that activity with her.

Surely you know, the most natural time to learn any aspect of language is during the infant and toddler years. This includes written language.

baby’s brain thrives on stimulation and develops at a phenomenal pace…nearly 90% during the first five years of life! The best and easiest time to learn a language is during the infant and toddler years, when the brain is creating thousands of synapses every second – allowing a child to learn both the written word and spoken word simultaneously, and with much more ease.

Studies prove that the earlier a child learns to read, the better they perform in school and later in life. Early readers have more self-esteem and are more likely to stay in school. Meanwhile, a national panel of reading specialists and educators determined that most of the nation’s reading problems could be eliminated if children began reading earlier.

children who learn to read in toddler years, average reading on a 6th grade level by age 6, where as children who learn at age 5, average reading on a 5th grade level by age 10, and children who learn between the ages of 6 and 7 average on a 4th grade reading level by age 10.

the later in learn any form of language, the harder it is to learn. not impossible. for some its still very easy. but statistically, as a whole, its best to learn different languages (including written) in the infant and toddler years. I dont see how this is a hard concept to grasp, but I think you just like arguing with me LOL :P
post #125 of 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by Super Glue Mommy View Post
children who learn to read in toddler years, average reading on a 6th grade level by age 6, where as children who learn at age 5, average reading on a 5th grade level by age 10, and children who learn between the ages of 6 and 7 average on a 4th grade reading level by age 10.

the later in learn any form of language, the harder it is to learn. not impossible. for some its still very easy. but statistically, as a whole, its best to learn different languages (including written) in the infant and toddler years. I dont see how this is a hard concept to grasp, but I think you just like arguing with me LOL :P
It is difficult for me to grasp because it has not been my experience. IME, children who are taught to read before they are ready to read improve in small steps but grow frustrated and possibly experience the low self esteem previously mentioned (if they are not getting it and get the impression that the "should" be). IME, children who are taught to read when they are ready catch on quicky and advance rapidly. "when they are ready" is a big variable, of course, and can range from toddlerhood to late childhood.

Do you have a link for that research?
post #126 of 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by sunnmama View Post
We disagree about this, too. I've watched too many dc learn to read in huge leaps--seemingly overnight, in many cases--after age 4 to believe it is more difficult after age 4. I believe that most dc will learn to read naturally when their brain is ready, and for some dc it is 7 or later. I do agree that low self esteem can become a problem with later readers, but the problem there lies with the label of being "behind" imo, rather than with the actual age of learning to read.
I agree with this. and even if not labeled behind, children tend to pick up on what their peers are doing that they are unable to do. even my infant does this. he sees his sister and brother can run around and he cannot. he gets upset by it. Even without outside sources comparing them, children compare themselves to eachother. its natural. all we can do is our best to foster self confidence and teach them to embrace what they ARE good at and understand the beauty in individuality.

My husband is one of the smartest people I know. Which sometimes I hate about him, lol, because he is the only person who can out debate me even when he is wrong! His brain is like a sponge, and he was a late reader and dyslexic and severely delayed until he was about 10-12 years old. some children just learn later then others. but perhaps, have he gotten more assistance at a younger age he would be even smarter then he is now... then I'd really be going crazy lol - but there really is no way to know that, that might not be the case at all. can't say for sure one way or the other. Probably not likely that him learning to read at a younger age would have done harm though

My DS1 isnt interested in reading as much as he is in letters and writing them and the sounds they make - something he got into on his own. I think my children are wonderful and I want reading to be fun for them, not forced at a certain age, or frustrating because they can't keep up. its really one of the things I like about the idea of homeschooling.

I don't totally disagree, but I don't totally agree either. I only think that for some children, it IS important. for my son, stacking as many blocks on tower as he can is important. if its important to them, its important to me. I dont think its detrimental for them to learn early or to learn later. I think it is beneficial to learn earlier though (as long as not forced and its fun for them)
post #127 of 166
post #128 of 166
babies who cannot yet speak can learn to read. the range of toddlers to late childhood I would say is inaccurate.
post #129 of 166
The first link addresses the importance of vocal interaction with babies. I agree that it is incredibly important to speak to, and interact with, babies.

The second link is a site promoting a reading program for babies (I am familiar with it). This linkwithin is summarized in a misleading way, imo, because it actually demonstrates that school kids without dyslexia, and not from disadvantaged homes where reading is absent, learn to read just fine, rather than that reading pathways need to be established earlier than schoolage.

I'd love to read the classic Durkin study cited within, and any studies based on that research, but I couldn't find any full text on google (only on for-fee sites).
post #130 of 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by Super Glue Mommy View Post
I think reading is important in general too, and there are a lot of children who are reading way below their age level because learning to read is harder after the age of 4, and most don't start learning to read until at least the age of 5. It's something MOST people need to know how to do. The reason why this comes up in debate so often is because we have too many children who are 7, 8, 9, 10 etc who CAN'T read, and don't want to learn. They sometimes get low self esteem from not being able to read.

that being said, I dont think reading to a child is the best way to teach them to read. It holds other benefits, but there are too many words in winnie the pooh stories to teach about the written word. Maybe some children do learn this way, but I think starting off with children's stories with just a few words on each page is the best method. We also focus more on the sounds that letters make then the alphabet itself - though I think both are important to learn as well.
I have worked in reading education and I have never, ever heard that there's a window for reading that closes at FOUR.

My god, what a society we have become pushing kids like that. (And I'm a big fan of reading, but seriously.)
post #131 of 166
I think its just common sense really. spoken language, sign language... I think its not only totally plausible, but most likely written language be included in that as well. not to mention learning in general is so beneficial when all those connections are being made in the brain. It would surprise me if the ONLY language that wasn't wasn't easier to learn early in life is written language. Babies as young as 4 months can tell the differences between some colors (if taught about colors). children can learn who mommy is, who daddy is, what a cat is, etc - all before they can talk. why would reading be the exception?

yes I know about the program, that is how my interest in all this was first sparked. though, you can do just as well on your own without the program in teaching these things - the program only provides tools and information on why learning language (spoken AND written) is important. To me, knowing what I know about langauge development (since my DD is brought up bilingual, and all my kids use sign language) it really seems like common sense. The guy who created that program is smart to market it, especially since its an idea that is new to people, but really only common sense that it works that way. The program came about by accident. Either way, I understand since its a new idea some people are skeptical. I tend to just use common sense though. ALL other language development skills, and all learning in general, is beneficial when learned in the infant and toddler years - why should written language be different?

as I said I dont think its detrimental for them to learn early or to learn later, buy I do think it is beneficial to learn earlier (as long as it's not forced and its fun for them)

for my daughter, for reasons I've already stated, it would be me depriving her not to join her in something she is so fascinated by.
post #132 of 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by GuildJenn View Post
I have worked in reading education and I have never, ever heard that there's a window for reading that closes at FOUR.

My god, what a society we have become pushing kids like that. (And I'm a big fan of reading, but seriously.)
i didnt say the window to learn to read closes at age 4. that the window of which it is EASIEST for a child to learn to read starts to close at age 4. and the same is true for second languages and sign languages. its harder to learn as a child or adult then it is to learn as an infant or toddler. this isn't new, it's been known for a long time. I'm surprised by anyone who doesn't already know this about language development.

And how is it pushing kids? I am pushing my child because I RESPOND to HER interested and ENCOURAGE her in something SHE loves?

really I have THREE children, and though they are all welcome to join in on this activity, my daughter is the one who shows interest. I don't force it on them, which is why my daughter is the only one who participates in in 95% of the time... I am also able to recognize that sometimes my son joins in for a minute and then withdrawals because its boring to him, and he just wanted some attention - so then I will give him some undivided attention doing something he loves, and I let him know if he needs me he just has to ask. I sense a bit of jealousy in some of these posts really to accuse parents who teach their willing interested children to learn to read as being pushy. Or that my daughter is "lucky" to be matched up to a mama who doesn't mind... I think for most people if it were something (healthy) their child loved and brought joy to them, you wouldn't mind either. Did I like reading out loud before? no, actually I felt like a dork. it also used to make my throat get dry which I found highly annoying. I got past that though because my daughter loved stories. now she is interested in words. and now, it's not about getting past it.. I enjoy it because I enjoy sharing her happiness.

My daughter has a very serious personality since birth, yet find joy in something you would THINK would be serious. to her, it's not. I just follow her happiness. I do the same for all my children. Call it pushy if it makes you feel better, but I would say my daughter certainly does not agree.
post #133 of 166
[QUOTE=Storm Bride;13110141]OMG - I'm glad none of my children have loved being read to that much. Spending that much time reading out loud would absolutely drain me. I'd probably end up spending more than half my time dreading the next bout of reading. I'm glad your dd is matched up with a mama who doesn't mind it.

gosh, I don't think it sounds like thatmuch. I think reading is so, so important! r
post #134 of 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by sunnmama View Post
When my dd was a preschool-age (only dc, not in preschool), we spent 4 hours a day reading aloud. It was tiring, but, she loved it and and I willing, and we were reading relatively interesting things. And, when we stopped reading, she would immediately pop in a book on tape
I'd go mad. I love to read. I could easily spend an entire day reading from the time I get out of bed until I crawled back in. I read in the bathtub. I read while I'm cooking. I read while I'm washing dishes. I used to read while getting on and off the bus. I just hate, hate, hate reading out loud. I do an hour with dd most days (this is fairly recent) and I'm done. I just feel wiped out by the time I'm done. Reading that slowly is really stressful.

Super Glue Mommy: I'm sorry. I'm really not following what you're saying. To me, it sounds like you're saying that kids do better when they learn to read before age 4, but also that it doesn't really matter. I can't follow that very well.

I'm not sure I agree with what you're saying about learning written language, either. I think communicating verbally is totally natural and inborn for people. We're wired to attempt to communicate verbally with our children right from birth. As written language is a completely man made, artificial construct, I don't see any reason to assume it would work the same way. I don't think it necessarily follows that our brains are hardwired to learn to read at a very early age, just because they're hardwired to learn to speak at a very early age. Mind you, I'm not sure I disagree, either.

I really think it's most beneficial to children to learn when they're ready, not at a particular age. DD has been working at reading for a few years now. DS2 is just barely beginning to show signs of some interest in letters and words. DS1 was uninterested until he was...8? He could read - he even read at above grade level - but he wasn't even a little bit interested in it.
post #135 of 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by dearmama22 View Post
gosh, I don't think it sounds like thatmuch. I think reading is so, so important!
I think reading is important, too. What's that got to do with it? I hate reading out loud. I always have. Different strokes for different folks.
post #136 of 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by Super Glue Mommy View Post
i I sense a bit of jealousy in some of these posts really to accuse parents who teach their willing interested children to learn to read as being pushy.
No jealously here. I am honestly worried about more pressures being put on parents and children. I don't think that you are pushing your dd, but I am not supportive of the "your baby can REEEEEEAD!" infomercials, or the push to push reading and academics on younger and younger children. I was a young reader, so I don't have anything against young readers....just the expectation that all dc should be young readers.
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post #137 of 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by Super Glue Mommy View Post
i I think for most people if it were something (healthy) their child loved and brought joy to them, you wouldn't mind either. .
I did read to dd 4+ hours a day, but I refused to play make believe after a certain age. It just drove me crazy, and there were so many other things I was willing to do with her, so I just said "no" So I sort of understand where people may be coming from on that one. I think my dd was darn lucky that I was home and had the time and willingness to read all those hours a day.
post #138 of 166
I am saying

if a child learns to read early (or learns a second language early, or learns their colors early, or learns their numbers early, etc) that its a GOOD thing.

but that I DONT think its a BAD thing if they don't.

ie: just because something is good, doesnt mean not doing it that way is bad. Good, Better, Best.

AND every child is different

AND it shouldnt be forced and it should be fun.

our brains are wired to LEARN at a very young age. not just language. my daughter learns sign language because she SEES something that is associated with something else (a word or object) same as learning to read. she sees a word that is associated with something else. same as my son learns letters - he sees a letter that is associated with a sound.

when we read its a lot more interative. we dont just drone on about words. we look at pictures, make animal sounds, incorporate sign language, etc. but if just reading without all that was fun to DD too, then I would do that too. It's not just that she likes it, she LOVES it. If your daughter said "read! read! read!" and was trying to climb to get a book for you to read to her would you say no? I mean, sometimes I have to say "not right now, but soon" but I'm not going to deny her even if I DID think it was boring. she points to words on everything and wants to know what they say. sometimes when im not reading or teaching her to read she will just sit around PRETENDING to read. we often don't have to read slowly either. its just natural and fun. I DO think it wouldn't be as fun or easy for her if she was older. Perhaps if some people had started younger with their kids and made it into a fun game they loved then they would all enjoy reading more, and it would take less time for them to learn... there is no way to know this since every child is different - but when they compare large groups of children they find this to be the case. I doubt my kids are interested because I made it boring!
post #139 of 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by sunnmama View Post
No jealously here. I am honestly worried about more pressures being put on parents and children. I don't think that you are pushing your dd, but I am not supportive of the "your baby can REEEEEEAD!" infomercials, or the push to push reading and academics on younger and younger children. I was a young reader, so I don't have anything against young readers....just the expectation that all dc should be young readers.
.
Well I am with you on the not pushing it I see how the your baby can read infomercials could give that vibe to some people. I found it educational, but I am also not the kind of person who would stress over it - I see how the information could stress other parents though. So I'm not sure how I feel about it. I think parents should know more. Unfortunately some parents get overwhelmed or pressured by information and some parents gain confidence and feel empowered by having more knowledge on these kinds of things. So, I'm not against the information being out there - I just think there should also be support out there and reminders that it would be worse to push it then to not do it at all.
post #140 of 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by sunnmama View Post
I did read to dd 4+ hours a day, but I refused to play make believe after a certain age. It just drove me crazy, and there were so many other things I was willing to do with her, so I just said "no" So I sort of understand where people may be coming from on that one. I think my dd was darn lucky that I was home and had the time and willingness to read all those hours a day.
maybe I just haven't gotten there yet. I'm a big kid at heart though so I totally revel in their joy, and when it comes to playtime and fun I have no desire to say no. maybe its because my own childhood was so lonely, boring, and without interaction... in a way sometimes I feel like I am getting a chance to be a kids for the first time. Of course, I have to be mommy too, its a fine balancing act lol, I'm always Mommy first, but I'm definitely down to enjoy the things they enjoy.
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