How do you talk to your friends about circumcision? Or do you?

[jenkuh]

I have a friend due in early Feb. who is having a boy. I want to so badly to bring this up with her but she seems pretty stand-offish about wanting to talk about details like this concerning birth and afterwards. She's a good friend but I'm nervous about bringing it up and really offending her. Any ideas? I'd feel horrible if I didn't say anything to find out later that they had circumcised just because they "thought they should" or something.

[KnitLady]

My standard approach is through email and in a very friendly tone.

"Hi! Congratulations on your pregnancy! You are going to love having a little boy. I don't know what your plans are or how much time you've had to research, but I learned so much about circumcision while I was pregnant with DS. I was really surprised at what I learned and wanted to encourage you to do some research before you finalize any plans. We are so thankful that we learned what we did and chose to leave DS intact. Here are a few sites that were very eye-opening to me. (put links here) Once again, congratulations! I know that you and your DP will be wonderful parents!"

I don't tell them just how strongly I feel because I think it can be off-putting. I also don't mention that I was strongly anti-circumcision before even ttc because it doesn't matter. What I write is true. I did do more reading and learning while pregnant and was even more solidified in my views.

Try not to send links that are too over-the-top anti-circumcision because they likely won't be well received. I like the Doctors Against Circumcision site. There are a few other sites that are kind of question and answers about circumcision and the myths that are out there. I don't have the saved on this computer, but look in the sticky to find what works best for you and your situation.

In the end, my concern is for the baby and I want to keep communication as open as possible and stay as friendly as possible to give the baby the best chance at being left intact. When writing any emails or having any discussions I try to keep that in mind as my ultimate goal.

[robertandenith]

OR make her a little nice gift, if you know how to sew, make some baby shoes or a blanket, you can include there pamphlets for breastfeeding AND circumcision. Then asked her if she read what you gave her. You can also go to whole foods and find samples of skin care, or go online and find sample of organic lotions or pregnancy products. This is exactly what I did for a mama, although I never got back to her to know if she read everything. It was my first intactivist approach and was terrified to know if she circ'ed or not

You can download the circumcision decision and make a DVD for her, it's only 20 minutes but it helps A LOT of new parents to make the decision not to circ.

here is the download link
http://vp.video.google.com/videodown...zeJJi0deIoo8VI

[beru]

A friend of mine planned to circ her son. He had medical problems at birth and the circ was delayed. They never got around to doing it, which is great! However, she is still totally procirc. She complained that after first deciding to postpone the circ, the doctor said "it's only cosmetic anyway". Then the second time they postponed it, another doctor said the same thing. She said to me, indignently, "it's not cosmetic". I just got quiet and said, "Why are you talking to me about this?" She understands I don't want to talk to her about it because we got into a really bad fight (spanning 3 conversations) before her baby was born and that's what we agreed upon. (I decided I needed to be in denial about her decision. Otherwise, I couldn't be her friend.)

Anyway, I decided I really needed to give her information on intact care and the danger's of doctors' ignorance of foreskins because I know the second one of them told her to circ her son for "medical reasons" she would. I knew I would get too emotional face to face so I wrote her a letter. My first paragraph was something like this:

"I feel compelled to talk to you about something but I am a little nervous about it because it has to do with circumcision. I know, however, that I would be very disappointed if anything happend to P because I didn't speak up."

Next, I gave her the substance of my message, and finally, I closed the letter with another "conciliatory" paragraph stating I didn't want to argue anymore about circ and unless she wanted to talk about intact care issues with me then we won't talk about it again. I also reiterated that I was trying to help and if she read anything confrontational in my tone that it was not intended.

Maybe that sounds like a lot of hemming and hawing but that's how I dealt with my extreme discomfort of the situation.

The decision to keep my boy intact was such a no-brainer to me. It was just common sense. What's sad is when my friends and I started to have kids, I just assumed my like-minded friends would feel the same way as me. I figured intelligent people like me who I respect wouldn't make such an absurd decision like that. I thought the people who circ their kids were stupid or had no critical thinking skills. I was wrong and it still completely blow my mind. All but one of my friends circed their son. I think my shock and surprise is akin to how I would feel if all my friends were practicing chinese foot-binding with their daughters. I just have to tell myself they are brainwashed. Otherwise, I wouldn't be able to respect any of them and I would only have one friend left.

[Blucactus]

If you regularly email, I find it easier to bring something like this up over email because it's a subject that can get personal and defensive REAL quick. I brought it up with a friend who was preg with a boy when I was preg with my son. I just asked her if she had thought about it at all, and I'd just learned how bad it was (my first DS was cut) and I was sharing that there was another option.

[ramlita]

I say as casually as I can,
"Are you and DP on the same page with circumcision?"
and then
"We kept our guy intact, and we're so glad we did!"
and
"The more I learn about it, the more it troubles me"

If they are surprised or have questions or differing viewpoints, we discuss them...

If they seem to be rooted in the idea that it's normal, an opening line usually includes,
"People used to think that it had benefits, but now we know that it doesn't."

I stay very calm and gentle-
but later I'll send an email tailored to their specific misconceptions or questions with a tone of "I feel strongly after learning what I've learned, to the point where I feel I wouldn't be a good friend/responsible mama bear if I didn't share this information."

I'm part of a busy, friendly playgroup, and have a couple of strong allies there.
The few regulars who were on the fence before talking with us (who don't have boys yet and haven't had experience) are now on Our Side, so we make a nice varied, friendly, united front on the subject when someone new shows up pregnant. And here in Vermont, at a "Breastfeeding Friendly" liberal playgroup, we're blessed that the majority of boys we meet are intact already

[NoliMum]

I'm bumping this because my friend, who is due in June, is planning to circumcise.

What I really don't understand is the fact that she's on the same page with me in every other decision: breastfeeding, cloth diapering, plastic-free, etc. How can you care about BPA but not taking a scalpel to a newborn's penis?!

I had an argument with her about it before she was pregnant, and we decided to cease conversation because she wasn't having a baby. Now that she's preg, I have felt so conflicted over this. I finally worked up the guts to ask her if she'd decided, and she said (I'm paraphrasing):

"My midwife has four sons who are circumcised, so she is okay with it. She has a Rabbi or I can take him to a pediatrician.

I know it's not what you wanted to hear, but I trust that you'll accept my circumcised son."

I hate to be "insensitive," but I also hate to let one more child end up under the knife.

The thing is, she is not religious, she is very intelligent, and she is a nonconformist. The next email after that was about feminism! Her decision doesn't make sense to me.

[ramlita]

That stuff is so baffling.

I remember an article about why feminists should realize circumcision is wrong, and this might be it, but I'm not sure:
http://www.noharmm.org/feminist.htm

[elanorh]

I started this journey not so informed about circ; grew up in a family of all girls. DH and I just figured that it was a little flap of skin, not a big deal to circ, but why would we since it's not a big deal (that is, we weren't circing but we hadn't researched reasons not to). Fortunately for us, our Pediatrician is very anti-circ, and she explained that she only does them for people with religious reasons for them. So we became more anti-circ, but still not as informed as many intactivisits until actually, after DD2 was born (we have 2 girls, no boys).

I therefore didn't talk about circ with my friends who'd already had kids, or who were having kids around the same time as #1 was born, because at the time I didn't think it was a big deal - a "potay-to, potah-to" deal. As a result, I've got several friends who circ'd without any input from me at all. One friend recently had her third son, and that's when I found out she'd circ'd her others (I had been afraid to talk about it with her).

After that, I decided I have to talk about it. So, I have a little email I send out to friends who are having their first baby, whether or not they know their baby's gender. I recommend some books that I liked for pregnancy and breastfeeding etc., and mention that if they haven't actively researched circumcision, they should, because the decision they make should be an informed one .... I tell them that our Pediatrician is adamantly opposed to them, and mention that the AAP says that it's an elective surgery (that is, not medically necessary), and that the national rate is down to about 50% of boys [and if they're in the West, where most of them are, I mention that it's actually only about 30% who are circ'd where we are].

And, I leave it at that. I tell them that if they have any questions, to ask me; and I usually give some good links from here (the oknocircblogspot one I like a lot).

I don't know whether it works or not; I haven't asked people the decisions they've made. But I think that acknowledging that I didn't know much when we started having kids, and have learned more and would have wanted someone to tell me what I know now, if I had had a boy .... maybe helps? So that's what I do.

I think if I ended up in a discussion about it, I'd probably mention more (like dh's issues, which can be traced to circ; and that if their kid did want to be circ'd as an adult, he would know the circ 'fit,' and be able to manage his pain, and not have an open wound in a diaper - so just put the $$ in a savings account and if he doesn't want a circ, apply it to college fund right?!).

I have convinced my sister (who circ'd her son, and is a nurse) that circ is wrong, without offending her - she said, "I wish I knew then what we know now." so hopefully she's gently sharing that with others too .... it's a difficult conversation to have.

eta:

I know it's not what you wanted to hear, but I trust that you'll accept my circumcised son."

I don't know how I would respond to a comment like that. Anyone else? Depending on how close I was with that friend, I might tell her that "Of course, I would not blame him for damage done to his body by his parents; he had no choice, after all." Because really, what she's concerned about (I'd think) is not whether you'll think less of her circ'd son, but whether you'd think less of HER.

[NoliMum]

Originally Posted by elanorh

I don't know how I would respond to a comment like that. Anyone else? Depending on how close I was with that friend, I might tell her that "Of course, I would not blame him for damage done to his body by his parents; he had no choice, after all." Because really, what she's concerned about (I'd think) is not whether you'll think less of her circ'd son, but whether you'd think less of HER.

Well, I responded with a lengthy email explaining all the reasons behind my position, myths that circ supporters use to defend the procedure, links with information, and a couple of videos. She is a very close friend of mine, so I felt a responsibility to give her all the information I had and challenge her decision. We have always been open and honest with each other, and when we disagree we discuss. So I wasn't afraid to offend her because she knows me well enough to know that I respect and love her.

She answered back with a "Thank you" and "I've taken it into consideration." Also, "I don't think we should discuss this anymore for the sake of our friendship."

[kriket]

I am VERY OPENLY anti-circ. I am irreverently anti-circ. I do realize that I may be a little too much for people to handle, it wouldn't be the first time. I just make myself available for honest discussion on the topic. If 'you' do or are planning on circing, thats just something that I cannot talk with 'you' about. Honestly, it colours my opinion of you as a mother and woman. I'm working on that

I do think that it is more important to set a good example, and be available for honest and level conversation while the 'decision' is still being thought about.

[NoliMum]

Just updating... my friend had the baby and he came 4 weeks early. No circ as of yet. I think it is the last thing on her mind. I haven't mentioned it. I just hope she realizes how pointless it is now that she has her beautiful baby, happy and healthy, in her arms.

[pigpokey]

Originally Posted by ramlita

That stuff is so baffling.

I remember an article about why feminists should realize circumcision is wrong, and this might be it, but I'm not sure:
http://www.noharmm.org/feminist.htm

Yeah, I haven't read the article but a friend asked me what influenced me not to circ. My first answer was that I was a women's studies major, and certainly it is not a big mental leap to go from "women shouldn't have their bits cut off" to "boys shouldn't either." Seriously.

[perspective]

Originally Posted by pigpokey

Yeah, I haven't read the article but a friend asked me what influenced me not to circ. My first answer was that I was a women's studies major, and certainly it is not a big mental leap to go from "women shouldn't have their bits cut off" to "boys shouldn't either." Seriously.

Thank you. When I first heard about woman's studies (when I was first old enough to really be able to take in complex theory) I was interested, but after some time frustrated, and irritated and I could not understand why. I realized it was because there were many great messages and ideas that were coming out, yet for some unknown reason none of it was being applied to men too.

People should have control over their own bodies, EVERYONE'S BODIES.

[rabbitmum]

Originally Posted by NoliMum

Just updating... my friend had the baby and he came 4 weeks early. No circ as of yet. I think it is the last thing on her mind. I haven't mentioned it. I just hope she realizes how pointless it is now that she has her beautiful baby, happy and healthy, in her arms.

Fingers crossed! X X X

[ramlita]

:

[mjg013]

Originally Posted by kriket

I am VERY OPENLY anti-circ. I am irreverently anti-circ. I do realize that I may be a little too much for people to handle, it wouldn't be the first time. I just make myself available for honest discussion on the topic. If 'you' do or are planning on circing, thats just something that I cannot talk with 'you' about. Honestly, it colours my opinion of you as a mother and woman. I'm working on that

I do think that it is more important to set a good example, and be available for honest and level conversation while the 'decision' is still being thought about.

This is me as well. I do try to be sensitive in the respect that I want people to be receptive to the information. The biggest problem I have is with people who aren't interested in even viewing the information because they don't want to make an informed decision. Then again, people who have the information and still decide to do it are a mystery to me. I honestly want to shake them until their teeth rattle. It's something I struggle with and have sicne I first became aware of circumcision at all.

[kriket]

Originally Posted by mjg013

The biggest problem I have is with people who aren't interested in even viewing the information because they don't want to make an informed decision.

YEP! the "I left the decision to daddy" people puzzle me even more. Did daddy do any research or just look down his pants and say
"doc, make his look like this, 'cause ya know, mine is the best in the world"

[perspective]

Originally Posted by kriket

YEP! the "I left the decision to daddy" people puzzle me even more. Did daddy do any research or just look down his pants and say
"doc, make his look like this, 'cause ya know, mine is the best in the world"

Well I can understand the basic idea of such a way of thinking. Generally gender specific situations are delegated to the parent of the same gender. Many couples use this logic through out their parenthood in all kinds of situations. Do I disagree with it, of course, but I get where that way of thinking is coming from.