WWYD? NonVaxer having Crisis of Faith - Page 2

[just_lily]

I absolutely agree that this is a decision that deserves review and re-evaluation on a fairly regular basis. However, I don't think it is a decision that should be based on fear.

You just went through a very traumatic event, and my advice to you would be to take the time and really heal before tackling this subject again. I am not sure how far off your son's third birthday is, but please don't rush this decision, especially since he had a reaction in the past.

Hugs, Mama.

[ema-adama]

Originally Posted by grandmaofthree

I don't have any advice for you but I wanted to point out that the amount of aluminum that you are concerned about (225 micrograms) is comparable to the amount that is in a liter of infant formula and the half-life is just ~24 hours.

Originally Posted by Emmeline II

There is a difference between ingestion and injection.

:

I do not know enough on how aluminium is metabolised when injested and how it is metabolised when it is injected. Dr. Bob Sears has written a bit about his conerns on injected Aluinium. That it is in formula is just another reason for me to avoid formula - it doesn't convince me that it is something I want in my body of the body of my newborn or infant.

OP, I still wrestle with my decision not to vax.

[ilovebabies]

I am also currently wrestling with my decision not to vax. I posted in the selective/delayed fax forum about it. So OP, I totally understand where you are coming from. I'm finding this thread helpful!

[Super Glue Mommy]

i think you best bet, it to breastfeed for as long as possible, ESPECIALLY the first 6 months (when catching these things is more potentially damaging). that will provide more true protection then any vaccine falsely promises you.

as far as whether or not these ingredients are safe we are posed with a few thoughts.

1) should the vaccine companies have to prove the ingredients are safe, or does someone else have to prove they are dangerous? all other drugs have to prove they are safe, and are not assumed to be safe just because they havent been proven dangerous yet.

2) if the mercury is under a certain amount they don't have to list it as an ingredient.

3) I can't understand how anyone thinks any amount of aluminum being injected into a child is okay.

4)Marnica made a beautiful point in post 17


If you plan on breastfeeding, the things you are concerned about you will gain more protection for your child through nursing then what the vaccines are promising. This is assuming vaccines actually work.

[runes]

Marnica's point is really important. Look at what is happening. Parents are seeing their children being damaged by vaccines, and instead of being told that their experiences and observations are valid and that we will be assured that anything and everything will be done to look into it and prevent it from happening again, parents are at best dismissed, and at worst, painted black and made out to be crazy anti-vaccination conspiracy theorists. Why are parents vilified for asking for appropriate testing and safer vaccines? Why is it all or nothing, black or white, you either follow the CDC schedule or you're a nutjob? The entire situation is pathological on the part of the medical-pharm complex.

I've done a lot of reading about borderline personality disorder because I have a family member with it, and this situation is reminiscent of that.

[Marnica]

Originally Posted by kidspiration

Marnica's point is really important. Look at what is happening. Parents are seeing their children being damaged by vaccines, and instead of being told that their experiences and observations are valid and that we will be assured that anything and everything will be done to look into it and prevent it from happening again, parents are at best dismissed, and at worst, painted black and made out to be crazy anti-vaccination conspiracy theorists. Why are parents vilified for asking for appropriate testing and safer vaccines? Why is it all or nothing, black or white, you either follow the CDC schedule or you're a nutjob? The entire situation is pathological on the part of the medical-pharm complex.

I've done a lot of reading about borderline personality disorder because I have a family member with it, and this situation is reminiscent of that.

Hahaha!!! I am a therapist so I treat many folks with Borderline PD. I never thought to compare this to that, but you are so right!!!
As for why the experiences of parents whose children have been damaged by vaccines is discounted, ignored, ridiculed.....because can you imagine what would have to happen if "they" paid attention and gave any of their concerns more than a passing whiff??? They would HAVE to follow up with appropriate studies and then can you imagine what they'd find???? They can't have that NO NO. Far too much at stake. Money would only be the tip of the iceberg. Someone would have to be held accountable for the millions of lives damaged....the compensation program would collaspe because there would not be enough money to go around and the manugacterers aren't going to step up... It's far easier for the gorvernment to turn a blind eye and rely on the tax payers to shoudler the burden as it is in the current system. God when I think about this it makes me

[claddaghmom]

Well that one dr. in the transcripts says his grandson won't be getting Thimerasol vaxes.

[Super Glue Mommy]

by the way, the DTaP doesnt reach full effectiveness until the child receives the 3rd dose.
If vaccinated on schedule, a child will receive that dose at 6 months.
Pro-Vax people stress how important it is not to delay the DTaP because the first 6 months are the most dangerous for baby to catch those things.

I don't understand the logic in this? They don't get the FIRST shot until 2 months... what about the first 2 months? and it doesn't reach full efficiency until the "window" its most important to have it for, has ended (6 months)?

this sounds fishy to me. Either, they are trying to protect themselves by means of failure rates ("that child got pertussis before the 3rd shot, so they weren't fully protected. thats why they got it. it doesn't count against efficiency" and then of course if they have all 3 shots they are already 6 months so they are less likely to get it anyway - which makes the effective rate go up. Or, if we were to assume the vaccine even works (which is another issue in itself), then it would make more sense to reason that whooping cough is most common in the first 6 months because the child hasnt gotten all 3 doses yet, instead of presenting that you need those doses in the first 6 months because that is when it is most common. By this I mean, if a parent wants to delay DTaP, instead of being told they are missing the window in which having it is most important (which anyone can plainly see doesnt even make sense) they should just be informed that all 3 doses are needed to gain protection, and need to be given within a certain time frame of eachother.

I don't understand the amoung of parents who wont even consider breastfeeding, which is their ONLY defense even if they go get vaccines for the first 6 months (assuming again that these vaccines work, which hasnt been proven). Yet they get the vaccine, have a false feeling of safety as they give their child a bottle of formula, not realizing that vaccine isn't even effective yet, and what that child needs is breastmilk not an injection. And guess what. Breastmilk is free, and its safe, and its not one size fits all - its tailored specifically for the child receiving it.

Sorry not trying to make this about breastfeeding, but when it comes to the DTaP vaccine I think mention of BFing is important.

Also, at which ages is SIDS most common?
most occur between 2 and 4 months of age. when the first and second doses of DTaP is given. I dont think SIDS is caused by DTaP. I do think that there are some vaccine related deaths being catagorized as SIDS though. (my last neighbor lost a child to SIDS after vaccination. I won't get into the graphic details I wish they hadn't told me, but the problem was DEFINITLY not SIDS.) they are told sids though, and many parents are, and many parents DONT report to VAERS and many parents DONT know any better then what their dr.s are telling them.

[amnesiac]

I have removed some posts from this thread which are not consistent with our guidelines & will be sending PMs shortly. Please be mindful of our UA when posting.

Let's return to the OP's concerns regarding her crisis of faith. She is specifically concerned about tetanus, diphtheria and Hib but would like any input regarding VPDs prevalent/danderous for children about 3 years old.

[Super Glue Mommy]

FWIW

DS1 - fully vaxxed until age 2.
DD - fully vaxxed until 12 months, then just measles vaccine at 18 months.
DS2 - never vaccinated, age 8 months.

my DS1 is in school (age 3 1/2) and when he gets sick, it used to be everyone did. not DS2 and DD don't. I believe his immune system is weaker from all the vaccination. DH and I still get sick when he does.

[dinahx]

Thanks for all the posts!

PPs, yes, my fear that something will happen to my child and everyone will think it is my fault (because most people are a brick wall on this issue, esp in my family) is matched/exceeded ONLY by the fear that some adverse event (like seizures/a coma/neurodamage) will happen to my child and I will know what caused it and NO ONE will believe me.

Of course this is all centered on me wanting to make the safest possible decision for my child, independant of the 'wisdom' of the times I live in. That is why I feel like I have to find the solution based on the facts as I know them, because I can't justify putting him at risk because of a fear I have . . . I've even been fantasizing about making videos of him prior to any vax so that if something happened, no one could tell me he just spontaneously developed it. But I can't feel good about experimenting with him or taking that risk.

[Super Glue Mommy]

i think its a very hard decision to make - both choices have potential risk, and you have to figure which risk you are willing to take. could you forgive yourself if you child got VPD? would you still know you made the best choice? do you even believe vaccines are effective? there are so many questions to ask yourself. Of course you don't want your child to get sick. which is more likely - catching the disease, or injury from vaccine? which holds greater risk? these are questions only you can answer, but in the end you have to feel confident in your choice. you can't "take back" a vaccine, so I think its important people educate themselves thoroughly before making this choice for their children.

Before what happened to my son, before I researched BOTH sides, I could not understand how a parent could not vaccinate and not feel guilty if their child got sick witha VPD. Now I understand. I get it! I get that the vaccine might not have prevented anything anyway. I get that, if they could do it all over again, they would still know that the vaccine was the bigger risk. Yes, their child got sick, but that doesn't mean that it wasnt more likely for them to have a bad reaction to the vaccine. Not everyone thinks that way after doing the research, and that is okay too. I think a lot of people (like me before what happened to me son) THINK they have researched it, but all they have really done is trust in other people who researched it for them, without adding in skepticism towards the source. If one day you change your mind, those vaccines will still be there (unless of course they DO prove they are ineffective and dangerous - more dangerous then the diseases they are vaccinating against). Once you vaccinate though, you can't take it back.

[dinahx]

Super Glue Mommy: what happened to your son? Did you post it earlier and I missed it?

[Super Glue Mommy]

neurological disorder. I watched my never been sick very advanced speaking in some sentences happy child change after getting the MMR. He lost language, continued to have a severe language delay, began banging his head on the wall, having inconsoleable tantrums, weird eating habits, and got sick for the first time in his life after that vaccine.

[applejuice]

s. I am so sorry. I hope he improves.