Do we need information that doesn't make parents shut down and stop listening

[beru]

I just read a survey on circumcision. I am sick to my stomach right now after reading it because the majority of women said they researched and decided to do it. I am utterly flabergasted. They researched? And decided to do it?!

I have been thinking. Could part of the problem be that when researching, the pro circumcision resources seem so reasonable? They have an "informative" tone. And they are often from medical sites that don't take a clear stand on circumcision yet are truly, underneath the surface biased toward the practice. They have the sheen of "balanced" yet truly aren't. The pro-intact resources clearly take a stand and they seem hyperbolic and fanatical. There is too much emphasis on ethics. These women come across pro-intact sites and feel attacked for even considering circumcision. I feel like we need a group/website or more resources that engages in information "subterfuge" so parents don't immediately stop listening.

[MCatLvrMom2A&X]

I have found that when a woman said she researched it she probably didnt do much. the reason I say this is because a woman I chat with said she researched it but when her ds started to have issues with his circ ie adhesions she had no idea it was a common complication.

I have run across this many times where they say they researched but yet couldnt answer simple questions about complications or know anything about the function of the foreskin.

[MommytoB]

Most cases of researched are not done by the 'scary internet' who wants to see visual circ side effects kwim ? Pictures Like that can not be 'falsfied' so they know it but when doctor does it, recommends it, friends who do it and they recommend it, I have even heard people saying oh their hubby said they would hate their parents if it wasn't done to them but I just wonder what circ'ed men really think what foreskin is do you think they think it's a lil piece of flap of skin on top of the meatus hole because they don't know what it is and more likely they will never see one if they don't keep their kids intact.

I have seen some of how intact men have 'circ'ed child' because they were like saying I was made fun of in highschool or I been having problems with my foreskin but those intact men don't realize their cause of problems were due to Forced Retraction continously about 40 yrs ago - the forced retraction has only been in the No No department for about 10 yrs 1999-2009 .

But doctors do still do recommeding retractionand some who are aware of NoT Forced Retraction think it's a-okay to recommend gentle retraction which is no difference at all and both cause issues . But they think gentle is a better word which makes it seems a-okay.

What needs to be done is Doctors just have to Say Leave it alone and hands off of it !

[Claire and Boys]

Pretty sure this will get removed as we're not even supposed to be mentioning other forums even if we don't link but I get you - that forum is a scary scary place, many many pro circs there. I think for many people, "research" means they asked their pediatrician, who recommended it, and that was that. Or they asked their friends, all their friends circed their sons, and their husbands and male friends said they wouldn't want to be intact because intact kids got made fun of at school.

Anyway, I agree. I find with pro intact sites what you see is what you get - they don't hide their bias, which isn't the case with pro circ sites. I really like CIRP as a resource, but my issue with it is that all the references linked to, link back to CIRP, I really wish there were a pro intact resource similar to what Insidevaccines is for the vax movement, which actually references everything to the studies themselves. I think that would make it far more credible. (Not saying that CIRP isn't, but that is my personal problem with it.)

[Pumpkinheadmommy]

I have often found that when people say they "researched" it and chose to do it, that often means they already knew they wanted to do it so they went looking for sites that support circ and ignore anything that doesn't back them up.

[robertandenith]

Originally Posted by Pumpkinheadmommy

I have often found that when people say they "researched" it and chose to do it, that often means they already knew they wanted to do it so they went looking for sites that support circ and ignore anything that doesn't back them up.

that's right...

[Claire and Boys]

Yeah, and when you ask them what sites they went on to make their decision, they give you something like that site belonging to Brian Morris :Puke

[Quirky]

Confirmation bias. They want to do it anyway, so as soon as they find the HIV studies, or the UTI studies, then they're done. They have the fig leaf of scientific cover to justify their decision.

And heck, if you prove their research is wrong, there's always "We made the best decision for our family."

[ananas]

What do they research, though? The pros, or the cons? Do they look up the pro side or the anti side? Research could mean they type "circumcision" into Google, and as far as I know, the first few pages of results are all leaning at least slightly toward recommending it, and some are completely pro-circ.

[Fellow Traveler]

I have more to say about this but I have to think about it. The problem is that from our perspective we see this as abuse there is really no black and white. So material we use will reflect that to someone who doesn't share our convictions it can seem heavy handed. It would be hard, I think, to write something that people consider moderate but would accurately reflect the truth of the matter IYKWIM. There are things that are softer than others, like I think NOCIRC and DOC and Dr. Sears' material is soft but your still left with the message, this is abusive and not necessary. That's hard for a parent to hear. And I admit I don't know how to improve that it's something I think about regularly as I try and discuss this with people on blogs and such.

[apple_juice]

Originally Posted by Claire and Boys

Yeah, and when you ask them what sites they went on to make their decision, they give you something like that site belonging to Brian Morris :Puke

Wow! I just went to that site and had to stop reading. There is absolutely no sense on it. Intact men can cause their partners to get breast cancer? What!?

It reads like "oh don't worry your pretty little head about this we know whats best". And what is up with the banana? Disgusting, absolutely disgusting.

[purplestraws]

My cousin is the perfect example of somebody who "researched" and chose to do it. When I sent her information she sent a email in response basically saying, "Thanks, but no thanks. I already "researched" it thoroughly." What was interesting was that she also said, "I had no clue though about how foreskin makes it more pleasurable for a man and a woman."

And at that point I was like...she didn't really research it at all.

And then she said that I see circumcision as harmful...and she sees it as a "mere medical procedure."

I always say that people don't look for information to change their minds. I never had an opinion on circumcision...so when it came time to look for info...I was a clean slate - I had no bias. If there's even a slight bias...it's going to sway how somebody chooses to research the subject. And I think that's the problem.

BUT...I do agree with the OP that it might be the way the information is presented. If a person already has the slight bias TOWARDS circumcision...any anti-circ site is going to come across as pushy and preachy and as using "scare tactics." I think when we present information...at least in the US...we need to assume we're talking to somebody who has a bias towards circumcising. When somebody considers something so "normal"...telling them that it's abusive and harmful (which is what it is...) is just going to make them think that's the extremist viewpoint...and not one they're willing to consider.

[Dave2GA]

If anyone cites Brian Morris's site, have them look at the websites and discussion groups he recommends. That will give them something to think about.

[robertandenith]

that's exactly I was going to say Dave! they are 'adult-fetish' sites :Puke

[grendal82002]

Originally Posted by beru

There is a survey on an another online mothering forum about circumcision. I am sick to my stomach right now after reading it because the majority of women said they researched and decided to do it. I am utterly flabergasted. They researched? And decided to do it?!

I have been thinking. Could part of the problem be that when researching, the pro circumcision resources seem so reasonable? They have an "informative" tone. And they are often from medical sites that don't take a clear stand on circumcision yet are truly, underneath the surface biased toward the practice. They have the sheen of "balanced" yet truly aren't. The pro-intact resources clearly take a stand and they seem hyperbolic and fanatical. There is too much emphasis on ethics. These women come across pro-intact sites and feel attacked for even considering circumcision. I feel like we need a group/website or more resources that engages in information "subterfuge" so parents don't immediately stop listening.

Interesting enough, I read somewhere about this person asking who researched circumcision before they decided to go through with it fo their child. A majority of them said they did not research, they followed the doctor and did what was best for their family. Seems like what was easier to me.

[needhelpplease]

Originally Posted by Dave2GA

If anyone cites Brian Morris's site, have them look at the websites and discussion groups he recommends. That will give them something to think about.

I did that, and was told there are foreskin fetish sites too, and that people will have fetishes about all sorts of weird things and that had no bearing on the validity of circ as a procedure.

I wasn't even trying to make the point that some people get off on it as an argument not to do it, I was just trying to get them to question the validity of that as a medical site.

[elephantine]

That finger that keeps bobbing down to wiggle the circumcised banana??? WTF who is *not* creeped out by that?