Breastfeeding blamed for rickets - Page 2

[triana1326]

I just switched to a different dr. for my LO after getting scare tactics and downright lies from my previous ped. about Vit D. She told me that Vit D. doesn't pass through BM at all and that I needed to supplement. She outright told me that my babe would get rickets if I didn't do it. Granted, we live in Maine and don't get out a lot, but I know that Vit D. does go through BM. I've been increasing my supplements of Vit D since Oct. and don't see the issue with supplements. A person was meant to produce Vit D. through their skin, not through a magic pill.

But maybe I'm just too cautious of what goes into my babe...am I right or wrong when it comes to Vit D? It seems to me that the jury's still out on this subject...

[BarnMomma]

Great so now breast feeding is bad?

Put it on the list of alll the other mainstream screw ups like sunscreen, flouride, vaccines, crying it out, and all the other insane things they force on you these days.

I swear to god I even heard a news report the other day warning that if you have an infant don't whatever you do take him outside in below freezing weather. I wanted to send them the picture of our son last year at about 5 months old SLEDDING in upstate NY 10 degree weather with the biggest fattest smile on his face. It's called wool, and down, and off you go.

So now kids aren't getting vitamin d becasue of breastfeeding? Hmmm. Maybe it's becasue the news scares parents into thinking that if your child goes out into the sun for even 10 minutes or gasp- gets sun on his body while riding in a car that he'll have skin cancer at 16 so slather on the toxic sunscreen 24/7 and keep your kid locked inside the house on anything but a 72 degree mostly cloudy day and only before 10AM!

GRRRRRRRRRRRRRR.

[Adsullata]

Originally Posted by formerluddite

and despite the whole article being about the high rate of D deficiency among adults, they blame breastfeeding, instead of the likelihood that mom was probably deficient before and during pregnancy, as well as after (while breastfeeding). if vit D levels were treated like folic acid levels, there'd be no problem.

: I think you've hit the nail on the head.

At her 6 mo visit, DD's ped wanted to put her on Vit. D supp + flouride. I said, you're sure she's not getting enough thru my BM? Ped says the most recent studies show BM doesn't provide really any. I was surprised and I think she's relying on these studies and not really vetting them, which was odd because she's really supportive of BF'd, cosleeping and also other methods not mainstream. At the time, I took her at her word and got the supplement. However, we have not once used it. I started looking around and questioning, as usual , and then when I'm here reading this thread, I had a major lightbulb moment.



This has got to have everything to do with the mothers' diet. My mom exclusively BF both my brothers and me (this was in the late 60's to early 70's, but they were poor and, thankfully, couldn't afford formula) AND they lived in northern British Columbia for 10 years. (Moved there shortly after my oldest brother was born and stayed until I was 4.) This was right up by Alaska, so really up there- hardly any summertime at all, much less good sun exposure. Guess what? None of us got rickets. In fact, my brothers and I have enjoyed and continue to enjoy very, very good health. But my mother always ate healthy. No junkfood, soda, or hardly any processed foods of any kind in our house for years.

Fast forward to today, when a walk thru most grocery stores will provide you with array after array of highly processed, nutritionally deficient foods. Add to that many of our nation's farms (NOT the small organic farms) uses methods that deplete the soil of nutrients, so the foods that go into the processed foods are often deficient to begin with. Is it just me or could there just *maybe* be a connection here? I think so.

BTW, I'm not switching peds, because she's really been great and supportive in so many ways. We have our next visit in a week or so and I'm going to bring some info with me to show her and discuss. I feel confident she'll be open too it and will re-examine, if she hasn't already of course. I wonder how many other mothers in our area have been getting this spiel about the Vit D tho. It can be so hard sometimes battling our culture of consumerism that tells us everything we need must be bought and it's hard enough when you're a new mom trying to understand what being a parent means. I can see how a person might just give up.

In case anyone's interested, I'll keep you posted on what happens with our ped.

[Susan Kunkel]

My oldsest son adopted from Russia had rickets. He was ff. Breastmilk does not give you rickets.

[WeasleyMum]

Originally Posted by spughy

There are 2 forms of vit D - D2 and D3. D3 is naturally occurring, in food typically in cod liver oil, eggs, and seafood. It is destroyed by heat, so the eggs and seafood would have to be consumed raw to get the D3 out of them. D3 is also manufactured in your epidermis when exposed to sunlight of sufficient intensity.

D2 is an easily synthesized form that was proven effective in preventing rickets and is the most commonly used form in clinical trials, despite having been shown to be less efficacious in humans. D2 is added to pasteurized milk.

There is also an interaction effect with vit D and vit A, such that both are absorbed and used best by the body when they are taken in approximately a 1:10 ratio... but I need to go to bed now and I am not going to dig up that reference.

ETA: Interestingly, the article I cited above has been referenced in a more recent study, which shows that the above posters who blamed maternal levels of vit D were totally right - all the studies showing vit D not in breastmilk seem to have been done on vit D-deficient women (ie, most of North America & Europe) and if supplemented to an acceptable level, women's breastmilk has just fine levels of vit D. Someone at MSNBC didn't do their homework, if I was able to determine that from study abstracts on the internet in 15 minutes. Pffft.

Question for the scientist! I just started (like, last week) taking a D3 supplement. I'm ~5 1/2 months pregnant, and am trying to increase my and baby's levels before birth. I took a course in "female nutrition" a few semesters ago in which we discussed Vitamin D quite a bit. Due to the age of most of the students, though, the discussion tended more towards preventing osteoporosis, cancer, Alzheimers, etc, than pregnancy or nursing. The instructors, who are very 'natural'ish, were pretty firm that D3, not D2, was the way to go, I don't remember exactly why but something about how our bodies have to convert D2 to D3 anyways or something like that.

OK. My supplements claim to be "derived from fish liver oil" and to have "naturally occuring Vitamin A". Does that mean that it's basically raw, if you say that heat destroys D3? Should I worry about the Vit A? I haven't been as I thought the main problem with A during pregnancy was when it was chemically constructed, not naturally occuring-- that "food" sources weren't going to cause problems the way, say, the Retinol in skin creams does.

How could Vitamin D NOT be transmitted through breastmilk? It's an absurd idea to me, because babies are born in parts of the world where they literally can't get sunshine for half the year-- are they all deprived and ricketty? No. Coincidentally, or not, women in those northern climes seem to have diets a lot higher in fish and etc than average. I'm no scientist but I think it's pretty obvious that the vitamins (including vitamin D) from the mothers' diets are passed right along to the babies. How else could a baby born very far to the north or south of this world in November, be healthy and sound?

[Adsullata]

Originally Posted by WeasleyMum

Question for the scientist! I just started (like, last week) taking a D3 supplement. I'm ~5 1/2 months pregnant, and am trying to increase my and baby's levels before birth. I took a course in "female nutrition" a few semesters ago in which we discussed Vitamin D quite a bit. Due to the age of most of the students, though, the discussion tended more towards preventing osteoporosis, cancer, Alzheimers, etc, than pregnancy or nursing. The instructors, who are very 'natural'ish, were pretty firm that D3, not D2, was the way to go, I don't remember exactly why but something about how our bodies have to convert D2 to D3 anyways or something like that.

OK. My supplements claim to be "derived from fish liver oil" and to have "naturally occuring Vitamin A". Does that mean that it's basically raw, if you say that heat destroys D3? Should I worry about the Vit A? I haven't been as I thought the main problem with A during pregnancy was when it was chemically constructed, not naturally occuring-- that "food" sources weren't going to cause problems the way, say, the Retinol in skin creams does.

How could Vitamin D NOT be transmitted through breastmilk? It's an absurd idea to me, because babies are born in parts of the world where they literally can't get sunshine for half the year-- are they all deprived and ricketty? No. Coincidentally, or not, women in those northern climes seem to have diets a lot higher in fish and etc than average. I'm no scientist but I think it's pretty obvious that the vitamins (including vitamin D) from the mothers' diets are passed right along to the babies. How else could a baby born very far to the north or south of this world in November, be healthy and sound?

That's just what I was talking about. My mom was one of those women. If it doesn't go thru BM, then why didn't I get rickets?

Obviously I'm not the scientist, but WeasleyMum, I think maybe the "naturally occurring" version of vit A you're thinking of is in the form of Beta-Carotene (as is found in carrots and other brightly colored veggies) and that source is considered safe for pregnant women. Vit A itself however is also "naturally occurring" in fish oil for example. I would be a little concerned about the fish oil supplement you're taking because that's the form of vit A that you don't want too much of when you're pregnant. I'd check the total daily amount you're taking in and check w/ a nutritionist (or your local health food store- sometimes they are nutritionists too). It's in high amounts that vit A can cause birth defects and you just don't want it to be too high- I can't remember offhand how much is safe or too much. I'd check if I were you.

Congrats on your pregnancy and may all continue well for you

[nukedwifey]

Originally Posted by WeasleyMum

Question for the scientist! I just started (like, last week) taking a D3 supplement. I'm ~5 1/2 months pregnant, and am trying to increase my and baby's levels before birth. I took a course in "female nutrition" a few semesters ago in which we discussed Vitamin D quite a bit. Due to the age of most of the students, though, the discussion tended more towards preventing osteoporosis, cancer, Alzheimers, etc, than pregnancy or nursing. The instructors, who are very 'natural'ish, were pretty firm that D3, not D2, was the way to go, I don't remember exactly why but something about how our bodies have to convert D2 to D3 anyways or something like that.

OK. My supplements claim to be "derived from fish liver oil" and to have "naturally occuring Vitamin A". Does that mean that it's basically raw, if you say that heat destroys D3? Should I worry about the Vit A? I haven't been as I thought the main problem with A during pregnancy was when it was chemically constructed, not naturally occuring-- that "food" sources weren't going to cause problems the way, say, the Retinol in skin creams does.

How could Vitamin D NOT be transmitted through breastmilk? It's an absurd idea to me, because babies are born in parts of the world where they literally can't get sunshine for half the year-- are they all deprived and ricketty? No. Coincidentally, or not, women in those northern climes seem to have diets a lot higher in fish and etc than average. I'm no scientist but I think it's pretty obvious that the vitamins (including vitamin D) from the mothers' diets are passed right along to the babies. How else could a baby born very far to the north or south of this world in November, be healthy and sound?

I'd go for something like this over CLO while pregnant. You want to avoid that form of Vit. A for now. http://www.valleynaturals.com/ct_det...d-c36567cd0f56

I'd save the CLO for after the baby is born. I take these and it really is tasteless.

[PJJ]

the model

The model for vit D levels is for cow-milk babies.

So, go figure the logic.

A lot of babies died in the fifties due to poor undernourishment, and that was due to poor human milk substitutes, but now the focus in on your human milk, cause that discourages lactation.

There is CONSPIRACY against human milk, so many will lose money--hospitals, physicians, pharms, etc.

[J's Mombee]

When I breastfed DS, his pediatrician never suggested supplements. When I asked about them, the pediatrician assured me that he was getting enough from BFing.

2nd, I wonder if there are so many pro-FFing studies right now, in an effort to stimulate the economy. I know that it sounds like a bad joke, but seriously... the timing.

I would imagine that people would begin to seek less expensive means of survival, meaning that people who were on the fence about BFing, might opt to BF since FFing would be (immediately) expensive, vs BFing (which costs more bc mom needs to eat healthy).

[khaoskat]

Originally Posted by 2xy

On a tangent....

I nursed both of my kids and was never told to supplement them with Vitamin D. Neither of them received any supplements of any kind as babies. Maybe the doctors just assumed the kids would get enough sunshine because we lived in the South at the time.

How I envy you. We do not live in the South.

At one of DD2's previous apts, the Ped wrote an RX for it (since we have the kids on State Insurance, it is free with an RX). I cannot remember if this was the 6 or 9 month apt.

At her 15 month apt, we were asked how she was getting Vit D, since we do not do milk because we think she may be allergic. I said through the foods she eats and sunlight. She laughed, said it was winter and gave us a sample bottle of Vit. D. drops.

Our children get plenty of outdoor time, even in the winter.

[onelilguysmommy]

uhh...go outside? i mean to some thats not a great idea but to most people its fine. whats that got to do with breastfeeding?


oh right, they want to make it sound horrible :

[katmann]

I have a theory (could be totally wrong):

Maybe bf babies don't need as much Vit d until they're actually moving around. Since ricketts is a bone disease, it seems that the bones would have to experience some kind of pressure (from crawling, walking, etc) to be affected. So by the time your baby is doing that, he or she is also outside more and possibly eating solid food with vit d content. That would mean that early on, for EBF babies, it doesn't matter if D goes through breastmilk or not. Because somehow, women were breastfeeding exclusively for millenia and 100% of babies did not get ricketts.

Anyone think this theory holds water? I wonder if there's any research on this.

[nataliekat]

Are you sure 100% of babies did not get rickets? I'll bet some did. And I think some are getting it now.

I don't think nature ever intended babies to get vitamin D from mother's milk. They were intended to get it from the sun. And it's true that many people live where they can't get it from the sun. But when our bodies were evolving, humans lived in a very sunny climate.

Vitamin D supplements have very few side effects, unlike iron or fluoride. I don't really see the harm in giving them.

[katmann]

Sorry, I phrased that wrong. I didn't mean that NO babies got ricketts, just that not ALL babies did. If exclusively bfing was to blame, you would have expected to see more before formula was available.

[AnnR33]

I don't mean to make this sound "light" in terms of importance but it's hard to know when drs really know what the hell they are talking about!

10 yrs ago and even 7 yrs ago I exclusively BF my babes for over a year and vit D was never mentioned once. I had a pretty mainstream dr too. They were healthy, rarely ever even went to the dr.

Suddenly with my last one who is now 4 yrs who I was also BF exclusively, he "needed" a vit D supplement. When I asked why I was never really given a concrete answer. It's like the drs are just repeating what they are told by "whoever" but don't really know any concrete facts behind it. I kept pushing her about it and she finally said "well, if he's getting outside in the sun enough he should be fine." Aha! Finally the real truth! And this was in the cloudy PNW so it's not like we were in sunny Florida. She said the body really only needs a little exposure to sun to be enough.

I never used the supplements and he grew healthy too.

I'm not saying some babies might not need it, but IN GENERAL most babies will be perfectly fine when they are BF. It should not be "standard" for everyone when only a small percentage are really in need of it.

[naupakamama]

The other thing I haven't seen mentioned is that fat intake is also really important for vit. D absorption. And in this day and age when "fat is bad" and "sun is bad" we have no hope for getting enough vit. D. People who drink skim milk from what I understand are not going to absorb much at all vit. D, because there is no fat to absorb it.

[AngeliqueW]

Here's the body of the email I sent to MSNBC, I urge others to send feedback as well:

Shame on you! In your article you said of rickets:
"In the baby’s case, the condition was most likely caused by breast-feeding. Mothers often do not pass enough vitamin D to their babies from breast milk, which is why most pediatricians suggest vitamin D supplements, especially for breast-fed infants."
Breast feeding does not cause rickets. Our modern lifestyle- indoors too much- could just as easily have been blamed. The baby's mom could have taken him in the sun and introduced vitamin D rich foods when they started solids. Also, mom could have taken herself out in the sun, eaten vitamin D rich foods, and taken a vitamin D supplement.
On the other hand, formula feeding does cause or contribute to a host of health problems for baby and mom.
You need to do your homework and use language more precisely.

[Narn]

I really think lack of sunshine is a big problem with babies/young children... hell, everyone.

I go for walks almost everyday in my town, even in winter. In the year and a half I've lived here, I have never seen a baby outside unless it was bundled in a stroller. Even a baby in a stroller is a rare sight around here. Since November I have hardly seen any kids of any age outside, except when they are walking home from school.

I think these parents are not willing to go outside, or the kids are indoors at a day care. It is really sad, I think, not letting babies get any fresh air or sunshine.