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People not watching their kids.... - Page 7

post #121 of 180
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueStateMama View Post
That and our zombie plan.....
and i thought dh and i were the only ones!
post #122 of 180
Quote:
Originally Posted by krabigirl View Post
It's sad, but what I find even more sad is that we live in a world consumed by so much fear.


I don't think most people are consumed by fear at all. There are lots of people on this board who say they won't let anyone watch their kids for 5 minutes unless they are family. To me, that is being consumed by fear, and I have a hard time understanding that.

Keeping on eye on your kid and not letting them get away from you in a store because you are aware that there are creeps in the world is not being "consumed by fear" but using common sense.

HUGE difference. Huge.
post #123 of 180
Quote:
Originally Posted by karina5 View Post
Ya know, it's not that big of a deal to me. I'm not all worked up about this.

There *are* parents that don't keep an eye on their kids. So to step away from this exact specific situation for a moment....that does happen. Right?

And I would think that a parent that does not prioritize keeping a young child close to them is not appropriately parenting their kid and keeping them safe.

So while I don't know what this particular mother was thinking (and yes, the OP was about a specific situation), I am speaking more IN GENERAL that I do judge that.

But again, I'm not all worked up about it. I just don't always believe that every parent has their children's best interest in mind. That is naive.
I know for a fact that many parents don't have their children's best interests in mind. I don't believe I ever said otherwise. This thread is about that specific situation, and my comments are about the fact that many people hin this thread seem perfectly comfortable judging the mother for doing things that we have no idea if she was doing or not. She could have been watching that child like a hawk and was distracted for a few seconds when he bolted. Or not. We don't know. We're jumping to conclusions based on the fact that, on her way to pick him up once he was found, she was talking on her cellphone about the fact that he was lost. That doesn't seem like proof of bad parenting to me.


Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueStateMama View Post
I know that the whole "stranger danger" issue is statistically less likely, but I can't help thinking about Adam Walsh whenever one of mine takes off in a store. ITA that molestation by a relative is statistically far more likely, but what about abduction, rape and murder?
What does Adam Walsh have to do with it? Adam Walsh was kicked out of the store before he was abducted. He wasn't inside a building at all.

Quote:
I really prefer to have my children in FRONT of me in stores. I hate bringing them to Borders, the bookshelves are like a maze, and I can't see behind them. I've got runners, so I definitely NEVER judge the mom with the kid who takes off, but non-chalance about young children wandering alone in a store or other public place? I don't get it...
You don't have to. Different people have different comfort zones. I also still haven't seen the post that proved the mom in the OP was nonchalant.

Quote:
Originally Posted by karina5 View Post
I don't think most people are consumed by fear at all. There are lots of people on this board who say they won't let anyone watch their kids for 5 minutes unless they are family. To me, that is being consumed by fear, and I have a hard time understanding that.

Keeping on eye on your kid and not letting them get away from you in a store because you are aware that there are creeps in the world is not being "consumed by fear" but using common sense.
Statistically, the creeps are more likely to be friends or relatives than a random person in a store. The random person in the store is also under at least casual observation by other shoppers, whereas the person watching your child has them all to themselves.

I let my kids be watched by several people who aren't family (although ds1 and my mom are our main babysitters). It's not something I freak out about, but I also consider it far, far more dangerous to leave my child with anyone than to proceed at a walk when rounding them up in a store. Of all the people I personally know who were sexually and/or physically (non-sexual physical) abused as children, none of them were abused by strangers, and none of them were abused in a public place. Yes - it happens. That doesn't make the people who are more concerned about the identity of their children's caregivers than they are about every random person in the mall "consumed by fear". They simply have different priorities.
post #124 of 180
Well, I guess I got Adam Walsh mixed up with the "child abducted/raped/murdered from a public place" poster child...that's what all of those "Code Adam" plans will do to someone, I guess.

Anywhoo, I do think there is a responsibility of the watching parent to mainatain a reasonable sense of security re their child in public places. Runner? Yup, it happens. Kid that took off and hid or something along those racks? Of course! But letting a 5 or under kiddo "disappear" (either by your own not watching them or their sprinting) and you shrug it off? Yeah, I'll judge that.

And if you are ambling, or otherwise not hustling to the best of your ability, and CHATTING on the cell phone (not "BATMAN! they have my baby!!") you're being "non-chalant." Of course, that's my humble opinion, and probably my judgement, but that's what I think.

Of course, don't talk to me about parents who let their kids watch too much Noggin...'cause I'm really bad in that category
post #125 of 180
Storm Bride, I'm well aware of the statistics about family being most likely to be abusers. And I realize that the likelihoold of a kid being abducted in a mall or something is pretty slim. It's much more likely that a nice person will try to help a child find their parent, and I am so thankful for that! :-)

It seemed to me that the conversation was taking a turn from talking about this specific situation into one that is more generally about watching your kids.

This seems to be a very difficult discussion for you. I'm sorry it's upsetting. : I think we agree more than disagree to be honest, LOL.

All I'm saying is that a parent should watch their kid in public. Really, that's all. And yes, kids run away. It happens. But a parent should - IMO - not leave a kid alone in the toy department (for example) while getting groceries.

If a parents set of priorities is that they will purposefully leave a young kid in one department while in another, then I don't think they are being diligent parents, and that is - again - not "living in fear" but using common sense.
post #126 of 180
Again, BTW, I ask about stats re sexual molestation v. abduction/sexual molestation/murder. I'll bet that people the child knows head the category in the former, but the latter???

I'm way more terrified of the latter...
post #127 of 180
Quote:
Originally Posted by karina5 View Post
All I'm saying is that a parent should watch their kid in public. Really, that's all. And yes, kids run away. It happens. But a parent should - IMO - not leave a kid alone in the toy department (for example) while getting groceries.

If a parents set of priorities is that they will purposefully leave a young kid in one department while in another, then I don't think they are being diligent parents, and that is - again - not "living in fear" but using common sense.
I suspect we don't actually agree more than we disagree. I used to let ds1 play in the toy aisle while I grocery shopped on a fairly regular basis. He frequently had his cousin with him, but not always. When we did it that way, he stayed put in the toy aisle, and came with me no problem when I picked him before going through the checkout. He and I got really good mom/son time on the way there and back...and I didn't have to worry about disappearing acts and chasing him all over the store.

BlueStateMama: I'm far more terrified of the former. The latter is far more severe, but it's also far, far, far more rare.
post #128 of 180
Okay, then. We disagree. I'm okay with that.

And FWIW, I don't judge very much at all, but yes, I guess I judge stuff now and again, like everyone. We all have our hot-button issues, and our warm-button issues. This would be a warm-button issue for me, because as I mentioned earlier, this isn't something I'm all worked up about. And it's cool that it's a hot button issue for you.

I've gotta get on a work call in a minute or I would elaborate just a bit...but that iss the bottom line.
post #129 of 180
I have two very impulsive, independent runners. My 6 year old is too big to sit in the cart or a stroller, or to use a harness. I recently bought a harness for my toddler, since he's always trying to launch himself out of the cart, stroller, and carrier, and he jerks his hand out of mine. I have no idea if the harness will work yet, but I can hope... Neither child listens to me or follows my directions reliably. My children are challenging. But, I have them all day, every day, and we have to leave the house to run errands and live life.

I've been judged plenty as a mother these past 6.5 years. My 6 year old runs through the store, and nothing I do can stop him. I'm not lucky enough to be able to do my grocery shopping without him as often as I'd like. He has some special needs, which explains some of his behavior, but few people would know by looking at him. So, I get the "bad mom" looks and whispers. I have to trust that he will be the next aisle over waiting for me, and won't knock someone down.

I had to really trust him recently. I was in the middle of paying for the groceries, when he suddenly exclaimed, "I have to go potty" and ran off to the bathroom - on the other side of the store. There was nothing I could do at that moment. I had to finish paying, and by the time I could've wrestled the cart out of the lane and brought it around, DS1 would've already been at the bathroom. So, I considered the potential dangers (molestation, abduction) and the liklihood that he'd make it there and back safely (very likely - he knows the store well), and I decided to finish what I was doing and wait for him. I probably looked nonchalant. He made it back safely. I told him that I was worried, and not to do that again. Will he do it again? Probably. Will I worry? Certainly. Do I have to loosen my hold on him, bit by bit, as he grows up? Definitely. Whether I like it or not. And he will always be ready before I am.
post #130 of 180
Quote:
Originally Posted by Just1More View Post
...I've often wanted to take a person's child around the corner, or to the service desk, or mostly, to the police station, just to show them how easily they could loose their child. I know I'd be arrested, but I wish I could work out a deal with the police station to do it....
Oh I'm glad you said this. I want to do that often too!! Let's just say that I watched some really irresponsible people walk way ahead of their 2-ish year old child and a few other older kids through a poorly lit parking lot once, and I wanted to just go and get the little one and walk off to scare the crap out of them so they'd think twice about her safety next time. Truth is though, if they already don't care, that probably won't change their thinking either.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arwyn View Post
...80, 50, and probably 25, years ago in the US, or in other parts of the world today, no one would blink at something like that. And don't try to argue "it was safer then"; it wasn't, people were just less scared...
This is slightly off topic, but how can people look at the world today and think it's just as safe as it was 50 years ago....? Sure, in some aspects it is, and maybe in some places it still is; but it's generally a very different place. I think it's naive to say that people are "just scared" -- they SHOULD be worried about what their kids are up to. Anyways, I think that's a whole other topic - one that would probably end up getting pulled.

Anyways, when it comes to the original post; I think what the OP was trying to get across is that the child was young enough for it to be alarming; and the mother didn't seem to give too much of a care that the kid disappeared 'again'. If it were me and my child was running off, it wouldn't matter how often it happened, it would still scare me good every time.
post #131 of 180
Because I don't form my opinion by looking around, I form it by looking at statistics, and the statistics say that things like abductions and murder etc aren't any higher now than they were a few decades ago.
post #132 of 180
Quote:
Originally Posted by mamazee View Post
It's actually a common recommendation that children who are lost should look for a mother with children to help them. It's easier for them to identify, and statistically mothers with children are the least likely to be predators. So I don't think that's odd at all. I've taught my daughter that if she ever gets lost (she hasn't) to look for a mom with kids. Have you read Protecting the Gift? That's where I read that recommendation first, though I've seen it elsewhere since then as well.
Exactly what I was going to say...this is what I tell dd(8)to do.
post #133 of 180
I am going to teach my son that the world is full of pretty good people on the whole. I am not going to fill his head with fear because that is not how I live and not how I want him to live.

I am going to let him walk to the corner store by himself and play outside with his friends by himself.

He can walk to school and walk home.

And I am going to try really hard to not judge other Mom's until I am walking in their shoes and dealing with their issues.
post #134 of 180
Quote:
Originally Posted by Storm Bride View Post
Were you there when he got lost?

When ds1 was little, he frequently took off on me when we were grocery shopping. I wasn't "too preoccupied" - I was incapable of physically holding onto him, and my basket, and whatever I was taking off the shelf, all at the same time. He'd bolt. I'd go after him, but he was faster than me. On at least three occasions, he managed to actually get lost, and once he went to customer service.
My son did this once and only once. Now he's on a leash or in the cart in the store. A leash is less humiliating and frightening then a child running away and either getting picked up or escaping into a car lot and getting hit by a car.
post #135 of 180
Quote:
Originally Posted by lotusdebi View Post
Do I have to loosen my hold on him, bit by bit, as he grows up? Definitely. Whether I like it or not. And he will always be ready before I am.
Oh, yeah. That is so, so true. DS1 is getting so close to "leaving the nest" - probably only a couple more years. I'm nowhere near ready for that...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blu Razzberri View Post
This is slightly off topic, but how can people look at the world today and think it's just as safe as it was 50 years ago....?
What makes you think it isn't?
post #136 of 180
Quote:
Originally Posted by alisaterry View Post
My son did this once and only once. Now he's on a leash or in the cart in the store. A leash is less humiliating and frightening then a child running away and either getting picked up or escaping into a car lot and getting hit by a car.
If you read my other posts, I have no problem with harnesses. (I won't call anything that I use on my child a "leash" - my own preference.) I honestly never thought of it with ds1, as I don't consider the store particularly dangerous, and he showed no interest whatsoever in bolting for outside.

Harnesses also don't work on all children. If you put a harness on a child, and they flop to the floor and refuse to walk, the harness doesn't accomplish much. Sure - you can carry them, but there's not much point in using the harness if you have to carry them, anyway.
post #137 of 180
Quote:
Originally Posted by betsyj View Post

I am going to let him walk to the corner store by himself and play outside with his friends by himself.

He can walk to school and walk home.

.


What ages can he do this? Because I let my kid play outside alone when he was 2. We have no corner store but I would think that around 7 is a good age for this. Also, in my current neighborhood I would let him walk to a friends down the road when he is around 4, maybe 5. My old neighborhood I would want him to be older, given the neighborhood itself.


Since all neighborhoods, yards, and corner stores are not the same it's interesting to think about how old a child could safely do such things!


ETA: I would let my 5 year old walk home from school, again in this neighborhood. Not the last 2 places I lived, though.
post #138 of 180
wow I feel like I must be the most over protective parent ever. my poor children!

I don't understand the arguement "its just as safe as it was 50 years ago" I'm not saying I dont agree with it, I am just saying I don't see the relevance? people got abducted then, and they do now. (however infrequently) maybe its where I live. maybe its because within the first year I lived here there was an amber alert flashing on one of our highway signs. maybe I was too easily influenced by the stories and movies about children being abducted.

if car accidents became just as rare, would you drive around without your child in a car seat, booster seat, or seat belt?

I'm not going to hold my child's have forever, but if I think my child is with me, and then they aren't, and they are scared, and someone finds them, I'm not going to wait 10 minutes to go to them. Sure, might be reassuring to know that they aren't really lost, someone found them, but if anything, its inappropriate to expect a store clerk to play babysitter for you while you take your time to go pick up your child. If the child ran off, you'd be looking for them (I would think) and be worried. If you allow your child to wander around, they wouldn't feel worried in this situation, and if they did why would you just leave them n someone elses care when it is not their responsability to babysit. IF you want someone to babysit your child while you shop, hire a babysitter.
post #139 of 180
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arwyn View Post
Not just other parents, other mothers.

This is really a cultural thing. 80, 50, and probably 25, years ago in the US, or in other parts of the world today, no one would blink at something like that. And don't try to argue "it was safer then"; it wasn't, people were just less scared (it wasn't hugely less safe, either, for that matter).

Can't we just accept that different people have different comfort zones, and that we don't know anyone else's full story, and just lay off the judgmental shaming please? There's a huge and important difference between "I wouldn't" and "how could she??"
This is how Adam Walsh lost his life. His mother would take him to the store and tell him to stay in the sameplace in the store to wait for her. One day, that kid was gone, and they later found his head in a marsh. The parents divorced, and John Walsh has spent his life capturing criminals and hosting America's Most Wanted.

I don't judge to be shallow. I judge because I fear for these children. I fear because when my mom left us alone in a store to do something, it scared the hell out of me. This isn't a matter of cultural norms, where one time it was OK and now it's not. It's never been OK.

Beisdes that, it's impolite. I've had unattended children at the library and even at Church steal my kid's toys, throw stuff into the aisles, and trip and fall with no one around to pick them up and wipe away their tears.

If you have a child that runs off, solve the problem, don't give up and say "my kid runs away no matter what I do." Put the toddler in a back pack or the preschooler on a leash. It's less effort than dealing with the kid hit by a cart because he ran around a corner, or expecting other kids to parent your child currently emptying the library shelf of all its books, or worse, having your kid become that rare statistic of a child who never comes home again.
post #140 of 180
Quote:
Originally Posted by alisaterry View Post
If you have a child that runs off, solve the problem, don't give up and say "my kid runs away no matter what I do." Put the toddler in a back pack or the preschooler on a leash. It's less effort than dealing with the kid hit by a cart because he ran around a corner, or expecting other kids to parent your child currently emptying the library shelf of all its books, or worse, having your kid become that rare statistic of a child who never comes home again.
The solution to the problem with my 6 year old is to avoid taking him shopping. But, that's not always possible.
I can yell at him, sounding like a really mean mom to everyone else, because he's much more likely to respond to that than to my normal voice. Of course, then I'll be the mom people write about here, right? And, really, yelling only works occasionally. Just like, occasionally, getting him involved in the shopping helps. Nothing works all the time. Sometimes, nothing works at all. So, do I grab him and hold him tight (eliciting more "bad mom" looks and comments) and drag him along with me and my toddler, right out the door (or pick them both up, one in each arm, kicking and screaming, creating a more dangerous situation), and grab fast food for dinner (bad mommy)? Do I let him wander to the next aisle, and trust that he'll be okay? Do I accept that he's not going to act like a model citizen, but, chances are, no one will get hurt?

The solutions in books and online simply don't work for every child out there. Some of us have children who are much more challenging than you can perhaps imagine. They're great kids, but they're difficult to parent. Judge away. I've always been blamed for it anyway. Most people think I should just take a belt to them. Whatever.
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