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People not watching their kids.... - Page 8

post #141 of 180
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Originally Posted by Blu Razzberri View Post
Oh I'm glad you said this. I want to do that often too!! Let's just say that I watched some really irresponsible people walk way ahead of their 2-ish year old child and a few other older kids through a poorly lit parking lot once, and I wanted to just go and get the little one and walk off to scare the crap out of them so they'd think twice about her safety next time. Truth is though, if they already don't care, that probably won't change their thinking either.
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We had someone here locally that handed a note to a kid waiting for the bus to pre-k, so the kid was 5 tops. The kid was alone, and it wasn't a happy neighborhood. The person handed a note to the child and asked that they give said note to the parents. It said something along the lines of "I was able to get close enough to your child to hand them this note. Imagine if I had ill intent." That child wasn't left alone at the bus stop for a good long while. I've been tempted to do this myself occasionally.
post #142 of 180
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Originally Posted by alisaterry View Post
This is how Adam Walsh lost his life. His mother would take him to the store and tell him to stay in the sameplace in the store to wait for her. One day, that kid was gone,
Adam Walsh was kicked out of the store by a clerk and sent alone into a parking lot!. He was not abducted from the store.

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I don't judge to be shallow. I judge because I fear for these children. I fear because when my mom left us alone in a store to do something, it scared the hell out of me.
Fair enough. It didn't scare the hell out of me at all. I loved it. So did ds1.

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This isn't a matter of cultural norms, where one time it was OK and now it's not. It's never been OK.
Your opinion. I don't share it.

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Beisdes that, it's impolite. I've had unattended children at the library and even at Church steal my kid's toys, throw stuff into the aisles, and trip and fall with no one around to pick them up and wipe away their tears.
When I first started letting ds1 play in the toy aisle, I used to check up on him, without him knowing I was there. He didn't steal stuff (not that kids in the toy aisle at the grocery store generally had any toys with them) and he wasn't disruptive.

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If you have a child that runs off, solve the problem, don't give up and say "my kid runs away no matter what I do." Put the toddler in a back pack or the preschooler on a leash. It's less effort than...
Who says? It was less effort for you. Believe it or not, other parents aren't you. Putting some kids in a harness is a huge, major undertaking and doesn't end up saving any effort or accomplishing anything...except that you get to carry a 40+ pound child wearing a harness. Putting a child in a backpack when you're still recovering from surgery is nearly impossible - and generally pretty stupid.

Besides, you have to think it's a problem in order to "solve" it. As long as ds1 wasn't running into people or going outside, I didn't consider it a problem. DS2's running off has been a problem and has required much more restraint and restriction...including not taking him out very much. He still runs off, though.

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...dealing with the kid hit by a cart because he ran around a corner, or expecting other kids to parent your child currently emptying the library shelf of all its books, or worse, having your kid become that rare statistic of a child who never comes home again.
My kids, historically, have been far, far more likely to hurt themselves when they're in a cart than when they're running around. I would never let ds2 play in the toy aisle, as I did with ds1, because ds2 probably would pull stuff off the shelves and throw things, which isn't acceptable. As for the rare statistic - that's what it is - rare. Obviously, I would be devastated if my child were one of them...but I don't parent based on things that are extremely rare. It's not the way I think or the way I do things. That doesn't make me an unfit parent, and it doesn't make the more protective brigade of parents better. It means we have different priorities and different experiences and make different decisions.
post #143 of 180
lotus-

but when your child wanders off, and you find out where they are, do you leave them with someone you dont know for 10 minutes who is not responsible for looking after them?

i think this is what concerns some people.
post #144 of 180
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Originally Posted by lotusdebi View Post
The solution to the problem with my 6 year old is to avoid taking him shopping. But, that's not always possible.
I can yell at him, sounding like a really mean mom to everyone else, because he's much more likely to respond to that than to my normal voice. Of course, then I'll be the mom people write about here, right? And, really, yelling only works occasionally. Just like, occasionally, getting him involved in the shopping helps. Nothing works all the time. Sometimes, nothing works at all. So, do I grab him and hold him tight (eliciting more "bad mom" looks and comments) and drag him along with me and my toddler, right out the door (or pick them both up, one in each arm, kicking and screaming, creating a more dangerous situation), and grab fast food for dinner (bad mommy)? Do I let him wander to the next aisle, and trust that he'll be okay? Do I accept that he's not going to act like a model citizen, but, chances are, no one will get hurt?

The solutions in books and online simply don't work for every child out there. Some of us have children who are much more challenging than you can perhaps imagine. They're great kids, but they're difficult to parent.
Yup.
There are also times when it's more difficult to parent, in general. I'm sure people who saw me walking around in a daze, not focusing enough on either my kids or my shopping (almost walked into people several times) a year or so ago were thinking all the nasty, superior thoughts in the world. I suppose I could have posted a sign on myself saying "grieving mom recovering from surgery - still need food", but I can't quite see myself doing that. Dealing with my kids when we need food, and I'm very late pregnancy and/or post-op presents challenges, too. And, you know, when you explain that, most people are all, "oh - yeah - that's different"...but none of the judgmental people at the store can see whether or not my son died or I have a surgical incision on my abdomen...and it doesn't even slow them down.

Dealing with ds2, in particular, is hard. Dealing with him in certain situations is virtually impossible...but we still need to eat.

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Judge away. I've always been blamed for it anyway. Most people think I should just take a belt to them. Whatever.
Yup. I've been advised to give ds2 a smack on multiple occasions, as well. Many people would think I was being more proactive (or whatever they think) - and others would think I was an abusive parent.
post #145 of 180
Quote:
Originally Posted by Super Glue Mommy View Post
lotus-

but when your child wanders off, and you find out where they are, do you leave them with someone you dont know for 10 minutes who is not responsible for looking after them?

i think this is what concerns some people.
Where was she for that 10 minutes? I actually don't know. Maybe she has intestinal issues that flare up under stress, and had to use a bathroom. (I have problems with that, especially since my third section. I mean...I'd like to say that I'd keep looking and ignore it, but I really don't think I would. Having a missing child and peeing my pants doesn't really seem like a superior situation.) Maybe she called a friend or something to try to calm down while looking and was concentrating on that and didn't hear the page. Maybe she was checking out and felt that she had to finish, instead of leaving the register and keeping people waiting (probably not my choice, but one I could understand). Maybe she did just think, "oh, okay - he's fine, so I'm going to finish my conversation". The point is...we don't know.

Plus, many people do think of customer service in a store as "responsible"...and many people leave their children every day with people they don't know...teachers, daycare workers, nurse (in the hospital) etc. Sure - some people vet them very carefully and meet them multiple times, but lots of people don't.
post #146 of 180
Regarding Adam Walsh...that is up for debate on whether he was kicked out of the store or not. It's not known whether or not that happened, but still, if a parent had been with him it would not have happened (my heart still aches for his parents). :-(

Regardless, there have been other young kids abducted so this isn't all about Adam Walsh.

I also believe that the world isn't necessarily more dangerous than it was 50 years ago. The myth of the Norman Rockwell ideal isn't really reality. Kids had heinous things happen to them a long time ago, too.
post #147 of 180
Quote:
Originally Posted by MommaFox View Post
We had someone here locally that handed a note to a kid waiting for the bus to pre-k, so the kid was 5 tops. The kid was alone, and it wasn't a happy neighborhood. The person handed a note to the child and asked that they give said note to the parents. It said something along the lines of "I was able to get close enough to your child to hand them this note. Imagine if I had ill intent." That child wasn't left alone at the bus stop for a good long while. I've been tempted to do this myself occasionally.
You know, I personally wouldn't leave a 5 year old at the bus stop alone, as it's outside my comfort zone. However, I can tell you that, as a small child, I would have probably let many adults approach me with the note...but not all. Sometimes, I met an adult who made me edgy, and I wouldn't let them get close to me. It's not infallible, but if kids are allowed/encouraged to trust their instincts, they can pick up on ill intent in some cases. The fact that a well-intentioned person got close to the child doesn't prove that a creep could have. I'm not saying he/she couldn't - but the one doesn't necessarily follow the other.
post #148 of 180
some people are making this personal when it is not.

children run off. some parents look, some dont. some parents find them, some dont. some parents go get their child when their child is found, some dont. some seem to care, some dont. I think the problem is really with the bolded.

I dont care what age my child is, if they are lost and scared (even if *I* think they shouldn't be I certainly am not going to tell them how they should feel, or tell them how they dont feel) I am going to comfort my child and talk to them about not getting lost. and most importantly, I am not going to expect a store employee to babysit my child. If they call me, I'm going to go pick up my child. If Im on the phone, I'm going to say "they found him, I'll call you back" she came 10 minutes after they found him and called her. so I dont understand the idea that "she was just letting someone know they found the child" wasnt she doing that 10 minutes ago, when the child was found?
post #149 of 180
Quote:
Originally Posted by karina5 View Post
Regarding Adam Walsh...that is up for debate on whether he was kicked out of the store or not. It's not known whether or not that happened, but still, if a parent had been with him it would not have happened (my heart still aches for his parents). :-(
Really? I'll have to check that out. I'd only ever read that he was kicked out of the store.

Nobody ever said Norman Rockwell was the reality. I just don't get why having different priorities as a parent is subject to so much negativity. I felt the benefit of ds1 and I having relatively unstressed one-on-one time together on the way to and from the store was worth the trivial risk involved in leaving him the toy aisle while I grabbed groceries. You don't. That's fine. I'm not judging you for seeing things differently...but it sure doesn't stop other people for piling the judgment on me and others like me.
post #150 of 180
well if my child gets lost in a store, if I cant find them quickly *which ovciously this parent could if she was looking* I would go to the front and let them know the situation - then continue looking, listening to be pages. not talk on the phone. If im in the bathroom having issues, I'll get off the phone with my friend, call 411, get the number for the store, call the store and tell them I am on my way to the front ASAP. that would take less then 10 minutes. maybe not every parent would do that. maybe there are 100 more what ifs. I'm sure parents of children who HAVE been abducted ask themselves a lot of what if questions too.
post #151 of 180
Quote:
Originally Posted by Super Glue Mommy View Post
some people are making this personal when it is not.

children run off. some parents look, some dont. some parents find them, some dont. some parents go get their child when their child is found, some dont. some seem to care, some dont. I think the problem is really with the bolded.

I dont care what age my child is, if they are lost and scared (even if *I* think they shouldn't be I certainly am not going to tell them how they should feel, or tell them how they dont feel) I am going to comfort my child and talk to them about not getting lost. and most importantly, I am not going to expect a store employee to babysit my child. If they call me, I'm going to go pick up my child. If Im on the phone, I'm going to say "they found him, I'll call you back" she came 10 minutes after they found him and called her. so I dont understand the idea that "she was just letting someone know they found the child" wasnt she doing that 10 minutes ago, when the child was found?
You know...I think I'm an okay mom, but I actually lack the superpower that enables me to know if my child is scared when I'm not near them. DS1 was obviously at leas a little upset the time he went to customer service, but I never would have suspected it...because he was normally happy to play in the toy aisle the whole trip (in fact, he preferred it) and/or play "hide and seek" with me. (He liked to sneak after me, and follow me through the store without letting me see him.)

Who said she was letting someone know they found the child? I think I'm getting lost.

My point is that we don't know what she was doing. Are you going to go get your child if you're in the bathroom? What if you don't hear the page and are actually looking for him somewhere else? What if you've actually gone outside to look, because you're afraid he got into the parking lot?

And, of course this is personal. You can't say "a mom does X is a negligent, no-good parent, and we're going to pour judgment on her, but you (me or other MDC mom) are a perfectly okay parent, even though you do the same thing and/or could imagine doing the same thing".
post #152 of 180
Quote:
Originally Posted by Storm Bride View Post

Nobody ever said Norman Rockwell was the reality. I just don't get why having different priorities as a parent is subject to so much negativity. I felt the benefit of ds1 and I having relatively unstressed one-on-one time together on the way to and from the store was worth the trivial risk involved in leaving him the toy aisle while I grabbed groceries. You don't. That's fine. I'm not judging you for seeing things differently...but it sure doesn't stop other people for piling the judgment on me and others like me.



I was referencing people who think the world was safer 50 years ago (which I don't believe it is). And I don't think parents having different priorities is a problem, depending on their priorities. Certainly not all priorities are okey dokey in everyone's book, right?

How old was your boy while he was in the toy aisle alone, StormBride? YOu keep bringing that up as an example, and I think that's EXTREMELY relevant.
post #153 of 180
nothing you have said Lisa makes you sound anything like the lady in the original post. what it sounds like to me is you have low self esteem especially in regards to your parents, which sounds fine and like you are a bit stressed (I understand all those feelings). it sounds like you have gotten some dirty looks and judgement in times where you shouldnt have, so ANYTIME someone thinks a parent does something wrong you want to side with them, as if that in some way you are defending yourself from those unfair judgements you have recieved.

I've gotten dirty looks a lot of times too. maybe people even post about me on the internet. if they want to discuss a hypothetical situation based on something they saw, I really dont mind. I know that I put my childrens safety first, and that I don't physically, verbally, or emotionally abuse them. If I think I see something like that, I will have negative feelings about that. I am judging what I perceived, not the person directly. Maybe there are factors I don't know, but the fact is I dont know them and I don't think that makes me a freak to feel uneasy awhen I think children are in harms way or being physically/emotionally/verbally hurt.
post #154 of 180
Quote:
Originally Posted by Super Glue Mommy View Post
well if my child gets lost in a store, if I cant find them quickly *which ovciously this parent could if she was looking* I would go to the front and let them know the situation - then continue looking, listening to be pages. not talk on the phone. If im in the bathroom having issues, I'll get off the phone with my friend, call 411, get the number for the store, call the store and tell them I am on my way to the front ASAP. that would take less then 10 minutes. maybe not every parent would do that. maybe there are 100 more what ifs. I'm sure parents of children who HAVE been abducted ask themselves a lot of what if questions too.
It would never even occur to me to call 411 for the number to the store...wouldn't even cross my mind to call a store I was actually in.

In any case, we've established that you would handle it all perfectly, and other moms just aren't as good as you. (Heck - the mom in the OP handled it so badly, she probably shouldn't even have kids.) You've established yourself as the perfect mother, so you don't really need to post here, anymore. Congratulations. I've established myself as one of those no-good, negligent moms, so I guess I'm done, too.
post #155 of 180
Quote:
Originally Posted by Storm Bride View Post
You know...I think I'm an okay mom, but I actually lack the superpower that enables me to know if my child is scared when I'm not near them. DS1 was obviously at leas a little upset the time he went to customer service, but I never would have suspected it...because he was normally happy to play in the toy aisle the whole trip (in fact, he preferred it) and/or play "hide and seek" with me. (He liked to sneak after me, and follow me through the store without letting me see him.)

Who said she was letting someone know they found the child? I think I'm getting lost.

My point is that we don't know what she was doing. Are you going to go get your child if you're in the bathroom? What if you don't hear the page and are actually looking for him somewhere else? What if you've actually gone outside to look, because you're afraid he got into the parking lot?

And, of course this is personal. You can't say "a mom does X is a negligent, no-good parent, and we're going to pour judgment on her, but you (me or other MDC mom) are a perfectly okay parent, even though you do the same thing and/or could imagine doing the same thing".
if your child has you called to the front, and you get there and they are scared, that doesnt require supernatural powers. you keep making this about you, not about the situation described. stop being so hard on yourself. focus more on the first statement of this post. look in a mirror and repeat it out loud several times a day. its true, but a lot of what you say in this thread and others makes it sound like you are super hard on yourself s
post #156 of 180
Quote:
Originally Posted by lotusdebi View Post

The solutions in books and online simply don't work for every child out there. Some of us have children who are much more challenging than you can perhaps imagine. They're great kids, but they're difficult to parent. Judge away. I've always been blamed for it anyway. Most people think I should just take a belt to them. Whatever.
I wouldn't dare say take a belt to him. And I think a six year old is different than a three year old.

My child is the "take every book off the shelf" kid. Just a few months ago, we were actually asked to leave the library.

I still don't think you should give up. I know some GD parents are against ANY type of negotiation or reward/punishments, but I think where safety is concerned bribery isn't out of the question. Maybe you could offer a privilege or treat? I don't think "I've tried everything, there's nothing I can do" is a wise choice to make in parenting.

And believe you me, if my child was still running away from me at 6, I would have him tied at the waist. I'd let him know that I'd only take it off if he listened, and the moment he didn't it would be on again. I let my kids climb on things other parents don't, and I don't have to have them within three feet of me, but if they can't stay within sight and have to be destructive, then I take stronger measures. I want my kids to be free range, but I don't want them to be terrors.

But if you have given up, and it looks like quite a few parents in this thread have, then you better be prepared for me to parent your child in public. Just yesterday we were in the doctor's waiting room and a little girl kept taking things out of my daughter's hands left and right, and I had no idea who the parent was because none of the adults in the room were watching or cared. I asked her several times to stop taking my daughter's things and finally put my hand on hers when she reached for the toy again and said very firmly "No," picked her up, and moved her away.

the mom finally got upset, because I the strange adult had picked up her child. Too bad. Your kid made mine cry and you didn't care or have given up trying, but I do care.

And I have done this in the mall playground,too. I have called out very loudly "who is the parent to this boy in the blue shirt?" after a kid tried to push mine off the slide, and when no one reacted, I told the boy that it was not OK to push my child. He did it again, and I picked him up off of the slide. Then he started chasing my son around the playground, and my son was screaming and asking him to stop. When I finally caught up to them, my son was crying and hiding behind me, and I held on to that kid and called out for a parent until a parent actually reacted, and of course they were mad that I was mandhandling their child.

if your kid is well behaved in public, fine, by all means, let them wander off in the store. But if they aren't, I WILL PARENT YOUR CHILD FOR YOU.
post #157 of 180
Quote:
Originally Posted by Super Glue Mommy View Post
nothing you have said Lisa makes you sound anything like the lady in the original post. what it sounds like to me is you have low self esteem especially in regards to your parents, which sounds fine and like you are a bit stressed (I understand all those feelings). it sounds like you have gotten some dirty looks and judgement in times where you shouldnt have, so ANYTIME someone thinks a parent does something wrong you want to side with them, as if that in some way you are defending yourself from those unfair judgements you have recieved.
Okay - I wasn't quite done, after all.

It has nothing to do with "siding with" the mom in the OP. She could be a completely negligent parent, for all I know.

It has to do with the fact that we don't know what her situation was, or what her circumstances are, or how often the little boy in question disappears. We know very, very, very little about the situation, and it bothers me that moms are always so freaking ready to dogpile on any other mother when they don't agree with the way she parents - especially based on one incident at a grocery store!

I'm an adequate parent, overall. There have been "snapshot" moments of me where I look like Supermom...and "snapshot" moments of me where I'm almost surprised some well-meaning buttinsky didn't call CPS. Neither of those is reality. I know moms who are awesome at home who look terrible sometimes in public...and moms who are the other way around.

I'm just not a big fan of the national (well - international - it's common in both the US and Canada) pastime of entertaining ourselves by kicking other mothers over single incidents of public parenting.
post #158 of 180
Quote:
Originally Posted by Storm Bride View Post
It would never even occur to me to call 411 for the number to the store...wouldn't even cross my mind to call a store I was actually in.

In any case, we've established that you would handle it all perfectly, and other moms just aren't as good as you. (Heck - the mom in the OP handled it so badly, she probably shouldn't even have kids.) You've established yourself as the perfect mother, so you don't really need to post here, anymore. Congratulations. I've established myself as one of those no-good, negligent moms, so I guess I'm done, too.
you really jump to conclusions. I;m just sharing what I have concluded I would do if ever in that situation. If anything, I think this post was good in the sense we were able to share ideas and brainstorm. before I read this post, I never would have thought to teach my children to go to a mother to ask for help! I am far from perfect, but I AM willing to admit when I am wrong and learn something to I can do better in the future. I dont think you've established yourself to be bad in any way, just hard on yourself.
post #159 of 180
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Originally Posted by karina5 View Post
I was referencing people who think the world was safer 50 years ago (which I don't believe it is). And I don't think parents having different priorities is a problem, depending on their priorities. Certainly not all priorities are okey dokey in everyone's book, right?

How old was your boy while he was in the toy aisle alone, StormBride? YOu keep bringing that up as an example, and I think that's EXTREMELY relevant.



Quoting myself because I'm very curious.
post #160 of 180
or maybe you oculd look at it as a hypothetical situation based on what the OP saw, and based on those assumptions what can we learn and is there anything we can take away from this to be better parents ourselves in the future. which is what I did. I learned about the mother thing instead of store employee, and I came up with a "bathroom plan" all the what if questions help, it gives us something to think about it. so they werent bad to bring up in any way. good in fact to discuss them. no one was hurt, as this person is nameless. Perhaps the lady at the front counter could have offered more friendly support to figure out what was going on then to jump the gun and judge her, but for the posters here, some of us were operating on the hypothetical situation (assumptions and all) and some of us were opperating on the "what if" front. I dont think that makes anyone a bad mother, or that means anyone here thinks they are "perfect" or "better" then everyone else. I think while you sit here saying people shouldnt judge and be mean, you are doing exactly that - because we respond different then you we must be stuck up know it all mamas who think out poo dont stink. thats not the case.
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