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People not watching their kids.... - Page 5

post #81 of 180
Quote:
Originally Posted by claddaghmom View Post
I used to work for a big box retail store. Two little boys, 4 and 6, came up to one morning and said they couldn't find their dad.

I paged every 3-5mins for an HOUR. The boys sat behind my desk and BAWLED for and HOUR.

Then the dad wheeled his cart up (he had everything bagged and had already checked out) and proceeded to yell at them for getting lost.

I asked him if he had left the store to look for them??? (Aka where the heck were you when I was paging you). He said, "Well, when I heard the pages I figured you guys had 'em so I might as well finish shopping."


Too bad you didn't call the police after 1/2 an hour. What a UAV. :
post #82 of 180
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jojo F. View Post
mamajama- I totally see your point and agree with you. As we don''t know the exact age of the child I think it was decided by the OP the child was around 4yo.

But even if it was a 9yo, *IF* said 9yo was scared, it would be odd to not see any concern in the mother, kwim? I'm sure if your 9yo, for whatever reason, was scared you'd concole him.
To be honest, it might not look like I'm overly compassionate from the outside in some situations. It's a little game where my kidacted kind of scared but wasn't really. He kind of liked the excitement and attention he got from the salespeople, yk? which is fine. But it's so not something I'm particularly interested in encouraging. I had a sense of humour about it and stuff but I wasn't all "OMG my poor baybeeeeee, you must be terrified!!! Don't ever do that to Mama again!!! I almost died thinking you'd be kidnapped!!!" etc. etc. I was more like "c'mon ya little rapscallion, let's get our shopping done and get outta here".
post #83 of 180
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigeyes View Post
Too bad you didn't call the police after 1/2 an hour. What a UAV. :
I've never been very inclined to call the authorities regarding parenting, but I think I might in that situation. It would seem as though the dad had left the store and abandoned his kid.
post #84 of 180
Quote:
Originally Posted by Storm Bride View Post
I've never been very inclined to call the authorities regarding parenting, but I think I might in that situation. It would seem as though the dad had left the store and abandoned his kid.
I'm thinking he completely destroyed their trust once they found out he was shopping the entire time he was being paged while they sat there sobbing. That's just unbelievable.
post #85 of 180
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigeyes View Post
I'm thinking he completely destroyed their trust once they found out he was shopping the entire time he was being paged while they sat there sobbing. That's just unbelievable.
I could see a parent who was dealing with the taking off all the time thing trying it as an extreme "natural consequences" kind of thing, but...nope. That's just not cool.
post #86 of 180
Viola - "Sometimes I think that people act like they don't care, because they are actually scared"

that makes sense. thats an idea that I can understand even though it differs from my own thinking.
post #87 of 180
nak
I work ib a book store, it's a large and well known company. Parents ruotinely leave thier kids i the children's section and shop throughout the store. Our store is located about 3 miles from one of the highest crime-rate areas in the country. I've seen parents get mad at kids for getting lost, I've seenkids getmas at parents for loosing them, I've seen kids whose parents were very glad they werev OK I've had parents yell at me for paging them. One of the angiest peoplr I came across had left his 2 small sons in the kid's section. Happens all the time, but we keep an eye in them. Anyway this boy really had to go to the restroom, but didn't want to go alone Poor guy's doin the pee-pee dance and crying. So I page the father, who asks "what the hell did you do that for?" uhm, maybe you shouldn't just leave your kids places??? we have rules that apply to parents at our story times, that I think should apply sll the time, but I won't get into that....
I'm a big fan of kid leashes (please don't flame me) because #1 son was an escape artist and a con artist "LET GO! YOU'RE HURTING ME OWOWOWOWOW!" even thougn i was barely touching him (I'd make a ring with my thumb and middle finger that his wrist sat in loosely but he couldn't get his hand through). And when I wasn't holding his hand he was oiff like a shot. So untill I could get "hands on the cart" into his head, I used a leash.
post #88 of 180
I like harnesses, but you need some cooperation from the child for them to work. DD loved hers, and it worked out really well. My attempts to use one with ds2, like my mom's long ago attempts to use one with my brother, didn't work out at all. Both boys just dropped to the floor and refused to move. If we tried to pick them up or anything, they just screamed.

DS2 does the "ow ow ow ow - you're hurting me" thing, too. He's actually done it when he's on my lap, and I'm not even holding him! He'll try to wiggle off, run into my arm or something (kind of cradling my arms around him, but no attempt to actually hold him, yk?), and start screaming about how much it hurts. *sigh*
post #89 of 180
Quote:
Originally Posted by Super Glue Mommy View Post
^I saw this in the mall once, a women who was walking about 10 feet ahead of her toddler. it was crowded. I could never do that.
People probably think similar things about me. I haven't done this exact thing (I don't even know what a crowded mall would look like, as I never shop in malls), but I have a specific parenting philosophy in which at times I do things similar. I'm always aware of where my kids are, but sometimes they are trailing behind me duckling style.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Storm Bride View Post
I could see a parent who was dealing with the taking off all the time thing trying it as an extreme "natural consequences" kind of thing
That's also what I was speculating in my post.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MommaFox View Post
I'm a big fan of kid leashes (please don't flame me)
Threads almost *exactly* like this one but over the subject of the merits or lackthereof of "leashes" have involved debating at length. You'll find folks here on MDC on both sides of the fence regarding this one too. Seems you can't win. Always folks who will judge you, one way or the other.
post #90 of 180
I've only read the first post, but hey, deja vu. We just got back from the grocery store a little while ago and guess who I found just about to walk out the automatic door into the snowstorm without a coat? I don't know his name because he was TOO LITTLE TO TELL ME. Damn cute little guy, big grin. After at least five minutes of hanging out with him and trying to figure out where he belonged, we found his mother checking out halfway across the store. She looked at a woman (her sister?) in the customer service line and said, "MICHELLE!" Michelle turned around and I repeated that I'd found him about to walk out the door and she grinned and said, "Oops, my bad," totally lightheartedly. Neither said thank you. Neither acted like they realized how bad that could have been.

Uh huh. Nice job, ladies.
post #91 of 180
have you ever been to an airport? would you walk without even looking back through the crowd with a toddler (or maybe it wasnt a toddler and the child just LOOKED like they were 2 years old)

I guess I think different since I live in a place where child abduction has higher rates then some other places.
post #92 of 180
Quote:
Originally Posted by Storm Bride View Post
It's funny. I used to feel as though everyone was judging my parenting when ds1 was little. I finally decided it was my old self-consciousness flaring up. Who knew I was right all along? It's nice to know that I can count on other moms to sit back and mentally kick me when I'm already down.

This has been a very depressing thread.


it seems this is a very personal issue to you, and i'm sure it's hard to read a thread where a lot of people are at the other end of the spectrum from where you are.

to be fair though, you're being pretty hard on people who have personal issue's too. maybe some of these people were lost as children, knew someone who was kidnapped, or something like that?

there are lots of shades of grey in this thread... i think it would be wise for people at both ends of whatever spectrum we're on here to try to see those, rather than go after one another for being too far one way or the other.
post #93 of 180
Quote:
Originally Posted by Super Glue Mommy View Post
have you ever been to an airport? would you walk without even looking back through the crowd with a toddler (or maybe it wasnt a toddler and the child just LOOKED like they were 2 years old)

I guess I think different since I live in a place where child abduction has higher rates then some other places.
Do you live in the U.S.? Because unless I am way off on the statistics there is no where in the U.S. where abductions by *strangers* are enough to justify the level of fear among parents out there. Do you know if your location's statistics separate out relative vs. stranger abductions. Because the only reason I think one area would be likely to have a *much* higher rate if there were particular issues around custody stuff, etc.

That's just the U.S. though.

As for walking with my tot behind me in an airport, it would depend. I have had a kid following me duckling style in the airport for short stints. Questions would include but not be limited to: How far were we going? Where are we exactly in the airport...would people hurrying to get to a plane accidently trample my kid (in other words, are we in an area with hurrying traffic, or just some life-business type traffic like at the food court)? Could I see anything in the reflection in the windows or looking in the mirrors that are placed up by the ceiling for employees going around corners with carts and things? Do I feel I can be attentive enough to turn every 30 seconds or so and check on my child, or am I likely to get distracted? Are there people nearby who might tell me if something is wrong...other parents, etc.? What kind of mood is my kid in? What kind of mood am I in? Can I set the right pace for the environment so that my kid can keep up with me even if ten steps or so behind? How fast do we need to get where we are going? Just how crowded is "crowded..." are we talking a steady but manageable stream of people that don't limit my visibility, a thick crowd that limits visibility, etc.? And so forth.
post #94 of 180
Quote:
Originally Posted by Super Glue Mommy View Post
I guess I think different since I live in a place where child abduction has higher rates then some other places.
stranger abductions are really rare no matter where you live in the US. i did a research paper in grad school about the age of parental fear we are (were.. this was about 6 years ago) living in.
the chances of your child being abducted by a stranger are EXCEEDINGLY low (in 1999, for example, there were about 115 such abductions) regardless of where you live in the US. however, whenever it does happen the media is ALL OVER IT for as long as it causes a sensation, which makes it seem like it's more common than it is.
that being said, if your child is the one (in 1.5 million, or even 6.5 billion) who gets abducted, the statistics mean absolutely nothing.

i'm much less afraid of my 21mo DD getting kidnapped than i am of her darting out in a parking lot and getting hit by a car (something that happens much too often.) and i parent her accordingly.
she can walk in stores w/out holding my hand if she wants to, but when we're in a parking lot, she's in my arms or in the cart. period. i'm SURE this will change as she gets older.
it took me a long time to get over my anxiety about having her in the car at all, because the chances of a child dying in a car crash are astronomically high (especially compared to a stranger abduction) but most of us still drive with our kids in the car.

i'm not trying to say people who keep their kids close are wrong at all (my DH is much more concerned about our DD being attatched to us in some way when we're out, and i don't think he's wrong) i'm just trying to bring some perspective to the issue
post #95 of 180
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sierra View Post
Do you live in the U.S.? Because unless I am way off on the statistics there is no where in the U.S. where abductions by *strangers* are enough to justify the level of fear among parents out there.
THAT

You are more right to be concerned about your 13 year old girl being abducted by a stranger.

My child is not likely to be snatched because my child is out of my sight.

Now I'm not going to leave my child up at customer service, because that's rude to customer service. And in generally I like to know where my children are in the store, because that's the right thing to do for everyone involved. And they still need socializing, not the kind you get in school, but the kind you get where your mom tells you how to behave.

Side story but relevant, my daughter was performing in her church choir on Sunday and since DH was on his way to catch up at the office, I asked DH to drop her off at church for her pre-mass practice and DS and I would be there in the service at the normal time. (The choir children come in with the procession and sit apart from the parents so no need to be there with her.) I told DH that practice was not in the normal spot and where it was. However, when 5 year old DD told him she knew were to go (she did not, as he did not tell her what I'd said) he just dropped her at the curb at her insistence, and watched her go in the building.

So after the service I get a big, fairly dramatic earful from the children's ministry lady about how my daughter had been "found crying" in the wrong part of the church instead of being brought properly to the right place and all the ways I suck. She stopped throwing such attitude when she found out it was DH's doing. Why it's OK to beat up moms and not dads I don't know.

What had happened as verified between my daughter, the mom who helped her and the story I was initially told was that when they were not in the normal choir room my daughter started crying and found a mom and asked her for help. The mom took her down to religious education where they were able to verify where she should be, and then they took her to the hall where they were practicing.

You know what? That sounds about right. I don't see the crisis. It was a church on Sunday, not gang territory, the Serengeti Plain, or a pit of child eating dragons. If I'd been called, I would have come right down. My daughter knows my number and has experience using it.

So we're living in a state of such weird fear that it's not even OK to leave your 5 year old alone in a well-populated CHURCH. Either that or some people are wound so tight they can't give a 5 year old 5 minutes of their time.

Let's have some more community, tell our children to behave in public and stay near us, act promptly when other people help them and they're waiting on us, but not act like the world is full of evil. The world is full of US.
post #96 of 180
well to each their own. if you dont want to be worried that is on you. the women who lived here had house security put in because her child was abducted from here. that scared a reality check into me. I wish my DH hadn't told me (we found out from a neighbor after we moved)

and from my understanding, south florida does have higher rates of abduction then where I am from originally (central jersey)

forgive me for the absurd thought of doing anythihng possible to avoid harm to my child, no matter how rare it may be :rollseyes:
post #97 of 180
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sierra View Post
Do you live in the U.S.? Because unless I am way off on the statistics there is no where in the U.S. where abductions by *strangers* are enough to justify the level of fear among parents out there.
your stats aren't off, kidnapping by a stranger is very, very rare.

I swear every parent should read Protecting the Gift. It was recommended to me by mama's here and I can't thank them enough.
post #98 of 180
Quote:
Originally Posted by mamarootoo View Post


it seems this is a very personal issue to you, and i'm sure it's hard to read a thread where a lot of people are at the other end of the spectrum from where you are.

to be fair though, you're being pretty hard on people who have personal issue's too. maybe some of these people were lost as children, knew someone who was kidnapped, or something like that?

there are lots of shades of grey in this thread... i think it would be wise for people at both ends of whatever spectrum we're on here to try to see those, rather than go after one another for being too far one way or the other.
I'm "going after people" for jumping to the nastiest possible conclusions about other mothers. I don't know if it's an inherent need to feel superior or if it's just ignorance, but it's not pretty, either way. I don't really care where they are on the spectrum. Some people have a comfort zone that means they want/need to keep their kids very close, and some people have a comfort zone that doesn't include that need. I have no problem with either. My own comfort zone has varied wildly over the years, depending on which child we're talking about, how old said child is/was, and where we were.

I have a problem with stating that a woman was too preoccupied to notice that her child wandered off when the person stating that wasn't there and doesn't know. The OP knows what the mom was doing at least 15 minutes (by her own post) after the child was separated from her. She has no idea what the intervening 15 minutes were like. Nobody in this thread, from the OP on down, has any idea what the mom was thinking or feeling behind the "thank you" she said to the customer service person. Most people don't care, either - it's more fun to dogpile on someone who can't defend herself, without knowing anything about her circumstances.


ETA: In case I wasn't clear, the "personal issue" for me in all this has nothing to do with rules about staying close, holding hands, not holding hands, etc. It has to do with the outrageous degree of judgment piled on people without knowing anything about what's going on.

A couple of previous posters have mentioned that moms are more subject to this. I think that's true. However, I think it's largely because dads are expected to be incompetent, and moms are expected to know their stuff. By and large, I haven't noticed many moms fighting the "moms are naturally better parents" stereotype, either. I guess we have to take the good with the bad if we're going to foster that kind of crap.
post #99 of 180
Quote:
Originally Posted by Storm Bride View Post
In case I wasn't clear, the "personal issue" for me in all this has nothing to do with rules about staying close, holding hands, not holding hands, etc. It has to do with the outrageous degree of judgment piled on people without knowing anything about what's going on.
my mistake.
post #100 of 180
I do know too that abductions by strangers are very rare but I guess I read the book Adam at an impressionable age because it is what I think about when I am in a store - especially when they have the big blue ADAM sticker up on the sliding glass door. I know that I will try my best to not let my children out of my sight until I feel they are old enough to handle that. I guess it just boils down to what people fear...child abduction may not have been high up on this woman's (subject of original post) fear list. Being that it is pretty high up on mine, I have a hard time conceiving what that would be like to not have that worry. I would imagine that as a mother, she would have other worries that top her list that may not be on mine. From what OP wrote, it does sound like the mother was not very connected to her child in an emotional way and my first instinct is to feel sorry for the child but I am also willing to consider and hope that there may be circumstances that I don't know of that explain the reaction.

Regarding making judgements - I did notice that when I first became a mom, I was quick to judge other moms. Maybe I just wanted to try to convince myself I was doing a better job than others when I really was very unsure about my parenting skills. It is something I have worked on very hard to overcome because so many of us are just trying to do our best and you never really know what is going on unless you get to find out from the actual person. So far, the only thing I have personally seen that I just can not avoid really mentally slamming a parent for is smoking near a child - especially in a car or other enclosed space. I don't think there is any excuse for that at all that would make it okay.
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