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Public role models, marijuana and our children - Page 4

post #61 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by PushPineapple View Post
The people who make the laws that we choose to follow, or not, are just people. They are no different, or better, than you or me. If you look into the reasons that marijuana is illegal, it becomes obvious that the laws were not made with the best interests of the public in mind.

If you are the kind of person who needs others to tell you what you can and cannot do, that's fine..but you should really think before judging others who are fully capable of making their own decisions regarding right and wrong.

I think MOST people need rules to keep MOST people safe, because most people don't use common sense, many people don't know right from wrong (think of the vast number of people who drive drunk, or who leave their babies to cry alone at night), and I believe most laws ARE made with the public's interest in mind (who elses interest do you think rules are made for).
That being said, I think many rules designed to keep people from doing unsafe things aren't up to par, and there are many which are missing.
For example... I believe alcohol is far more deserving of being illegal than marijuana is.
In fact, I think alcohol SHOULD be illegal... precisely because, back to your original point, "but you should really think before judging others who are fully capable of making their own decisions regarding right and wrong", and thanks for making it, there are A LOT of people who drink, who ARE NOT fully capable of making their own decisions regarding right & wrong - and Michael Phelps is one of them - as he has driven drunk in the past (and as such, I don't think his decision making regarding mind/mood altering substances should be lauded).
post #62 of 181
I haven't read all the repsonses, but I wanted to say that I don't really believe in role models, period. I think we should all strive to make our lives full and rich without trying to emulate someone else's.

And I really don't care who smokes pot. It's not my thing, but it's NOT MY LIFE.
post #63 of 181
AKRotts, that's cool that you have no interest in smoking pot or drinking alcohol. That is your personal choice, obviously. :-)

But if you are genuinely interested in how making marijuana legal would be beneficial, there is quite a bit of information on this (it's one of my favorite topics actually). It's quite fascinating, really, and just as an FYI - there are a lot of people that are like you (don't smoke pot, will never smoke pot) who feel that it is wrong that pot is illegal.
post #64 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by AkRotts View Post
How is making marijuana legal in the best interest of the public?
can of worms. opened.

:
post #65 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by AkRotts View Post
How is making marijuana legal in the best interest of the public?




I don't "need" others to tell me what to do. I am quite capable of making my own decisions. I just CHOOSE to obey the law. That is MY choice.

btw, even if it was legal, I wouldn't smoke it. I don't drink either, which also is MY choice.
Darn right. I don't smoke or drink either. And it isn't because of the laws attached to either. It is because I choose not to poison my body. And like I said originally, those folks who ARE in the public eye - PARTICULARLY those lauded for their bodies & athleticism (michael phelps or football players or models), should be aware of their public profile, that many eyes are on them; children's included, and should understand that injesting or smoking poisons, legal or not, is AT the LEAST antipothic to their persona, and at worst, just plain stupid, poor decision making, particularly in light of their supposed understanding the body/health. Doesn't matter if you WANT someone to be a role model or not, or if THEY don't want to be a role model... if you CHOOSE to be a professional athelete, you ARE a role model to other young atheletes, and your decision making is under scrutiny. So they should be aware & make proper choices.
post #66 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by AkRotts View Post
How is making marijuana legal in the best interest of the public?
This isn't what I said. I said that the reason it was made illegal was not for the best interests of the public. It was done for the interests of few.

But, I'll play anyway, here are a pair of reasons that making it legal would be good for society:
- Medical purposes. Google if you need to, there are too many medical uses to list.
- Legalization would stop the senseless prosecution of users who have harmed no one, and free up our judicial and penal systems for real offenders.


Quote:
Originally Posted by AkRotts View Post
I don't "need" others to tell me what to do. I am quite capable of making my own decisions. I just CHOOSE to obey the law. That is MY choice.

btw, even if it was legal, I wouldn't smoke it. I don't drink either, which also is MY choice.
Good for you.

Again, though, I think you misunderstood me. I was responding to when you said:

Quote:
Originally Posted by AkRotts View Post
Who gets to decide what laws we can break and which ones we can't?
So I said, in different words, "Those who are capable of deciding for themselves".
post #67 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by AkRotts View Post
I have a problem with it because it is ILLEGAL!:
Oh, c'mon. This is not about it being illegal at all. Jay-walking is against the law (and in some places carries a heavier fine than possession of marijuana.) Would people be freaking out if Michael Phelps broke the law by jay-walking?

Quote:
What other illegal activities are "ok"? Who gets to decide what laws we can break and which ones we can't?
I do. I decide for myself whether a law is just and moral and whether it is worth it to me to deal with the consequences of breaking it. And if I do decide so I will not feel guilty or sorry. If a situation arises where I have the chance to practice civil disobedience, I will do so proudly.

Past and current illegal activities that are not just ok-with-quotation-marks, but okay-without-quotation-marks: Homebirth midwifery. Homeschooling (or not schooling at all.) A woman showing her face in public. A woman doing the same work a man is allowed to do. A woman voting. A woman breastfeeding in public. Kissing in public. Doing whatever the @#$% one likes sexually with their partner in the privacy of their bedroom. A white woman marrying a black man. Working for barter and not reporting the income because one does not wish to support an immoral war. Using prescription drugs that have not been prescribed to the person using them because they need pain relief now. Using an illegal drug because it is the best one for the treatment. Practicing one's religion. Those are just some off the top of my head. I mean really? You think the law is so sacrosanct that disobeying it can never be justified?

The criminalization of marijuana is stupid. It's wrong. It fuels a criminal culture in which people get hurt. It means my tax dollars are spent on keeping thousands upon thousand of people in jail when they could otherwise be contributing members of society. It keeps us from being able to grow a plant that is incredibly useful for all sorts of utilitarian purposes. It's hypocritical and corrupt. That's what I have a problem with.
post #68 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by fourlittlebirds View Post
The criminalization of marijuana is stupid. It's wrong. It fuels a criminal culture in which people get hurt. It means my tax dollars are spent on keeping thousands upon thousand of people in jail when they could otherwise be contributing members of society. It keeps us from being able to grow a plant that is incredibly useful for all sorts of utilitarian purposes. It's hypocritical and corrupt. That's what I have a problem with.
yep. what she said. and everything else, i just didn't quote.

I can't imagine that some people actually believe that the law is always right. Just becuase something is illegal, doesn't make it "wrong".

Isn't it illegal to marry someone of the same sex in most states? Does that mean it's wrong to be gay and want to have the same benefits as heterosexual couples? sheesh.
post #69 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ks Mama View Post
understand that injesting or smoking poisons, legal or not, is AT the LEAST antipothic to their persona, and at worst, just plain stupid, poor decision making, particularly in light of their supposed understanding the body/health.
Then their persona is false. It's a good lesson, to my mind, of the foolishness of putting people up on pedestals to begin with. Making heroes out of people for being genetically gifted and winning. What nonsense. It's a great lesson for a kid to learn.

The rest of it is just bigotry. Many people find much value in using marijuana and do not suffer ill effects from it. If you have no idea why that is, you shouldn't assume you have any basis for comment on it. And if you know why it is, you would know that the notion that it is objectively bad and unhealthy is wrong.

So incredibly sure it's a poison and nothing but? Read this and this.

I wish I understood what spurs the irrational hatred and fear of pot.
post #70 of 181
Ita w/ fourlittlebirds and Drummer's wife.

Quote:
Why Condemn Phelps, When We Ought to Condemn the Laws That Brand Him A Criminal

Sure, there will be some who will say that this latest chapter in Phelp’s life is deserving of criticism because the 14-time gold medalist is sending a poor message to young children. And what message would that be? That you can occasionally smoke marijuana and still be successful in life. Well sorry if the truth hurts.
If you don't know about about Marijuana Reform drop by Norml and learn a little. Or if you have specific questions drop by my fav tribe, the MJ tribe. The first page alone is a great read....
post #71 of 181
Why do people think that Phelps, as a competitive athlete, should be condemned for smoking pot on the grounds that he's not looking after his body? Many competitive athletes don't take care of their bodies. How many overtrain and injure themselves? How many take "performance enhancing drugs"? How many have hurt themselves with steroids. I believe I mentioned upthread that we have a man here advising our ski jumpers to drop to a 1,000 calorie/day diet and take up smoking, so that they'll be skinny and light enough to jump to medal-winning lengths when the 2010 Olympics roll around. Looking to professional, or Olympic-class amateur, athletes as role models for all around wellness is illogical.\

ETA: I agree with fourlittlebirds and Drummer's Wife...and while I did smoke pot when I was younger, you couldn't pay me to smoke it now. My ex's dependency on pot caused massive havoc in my life, and contributed to my years of thinking my primary c-section had rendered me infertile for life. I hate pot and don't want it anywhere near me. That doesn't mean it should be illegal for people who aren't like my ex (who, in fairness, was addicted to everything).
post #72 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by PushPineapple View Post
This isn't what I said. I said that the reason it was made illegal was not for the best interests of the public. It was done for the interests of few.

But, I'll play anyway, here are a pair of reasons that making it legal would be good for society:
- Medical purposes. Google if you need to, there are too many medical uses to list.
- Legalization would stop the senseless prosecution of users who have harmed no one, and free up our judicial and penal systems for real offenders.
I understand the medicinal purposes, but isn't that allowed in most states already? I absolutely don't have a problem with that.

That wouldn't benefit the majority of those who smoke would it?

What are the other benefits?

fyi, I am NOT asking this to be a smart a$$, I really want to know.

Darn, I wanted to reply to a couple of other things but it is time to take the kiddos to gymnastics. I will have to come back to this
post #73 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by AkRotts View Post
I understand the medicinal purposes, but isn't that allowed in most states already? I absolutely don't have a problem with that.
No, it isn't allowed in any states, really. A federal law prohibits it, so even in states like CA the federal law can override the state's, and medical mj dispensaries can be raided and shut down. It's a pretty messed up situation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AkRotts View Post
That wouldn't benefit the majority of those who smoke would it?
Besides the obvious medical uses, like pain, it's hard to say what the majority of smokers are getting out of their habit. It does different things for different people. For some, pot's for partying, for others, relaxing. For many, it helps with depression or anxiety, taking the place of pharmaceuticals. Self-prescribed, yes, but if it works it works.

Keep in mind that marijuana is an herb. If it weren't for decades of government propaganda you probably wouldn't think it different than any other herbal remedy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AkRotts View Post
What are the other benefits?
The ability to produce and use hemp is one. This is really too broad of a subject, I wouldn't do it justice. Briefly, if marijuana were legalized, it could fuel our cars, provide extraordinarily healthy foods, revolutionize our paper and textile industries, and offer a safe and natural alternative to many medicines.
post #74 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by chipper26 View Post
I'd like to know what percentage of Americans truly have at least tried pot. Let those without sin cast the first stone.
Well I'm not American, but I have never tried it. But I don't need to cast stones, I don't see the problem with it.
post #75 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by PushPineapple View Post
Besides the obvious medical uses, like pain, it's hard to say what the majority of smokers are getting out of their habit. It does different things for different people. For some, pot's for partying, for others, relaxing. For many, it helps with depression or anxiety, taking the place of pharmaceuticals. Self-prescribed, yes, but if it works it works.
I didn't make the connection until years later (I thought I just smoked pot because I was a hood ), but looking back, I think pot is the only thing that kept me alive long enough to graduate from high school. I've struggled with depression since puberty, but it was at its absolute worst in adolescence, and I didn't trust "the system" enough (still don't, but that's another issue entirely) to even consider admitting my mental state to anybody in authority. I just got stoned, and it all just went away...
post #76 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by AkRotts View Post
I understand the medicinal purposes, but isn't that allowed in most states already? I absolutely don't have a problem with that.

What are the other benefits?
It is absolutely not legal for medical use in most states, both due to state law and the overriding federal law that a pp mentioned. As a former cancer patient, that infuriates me.

If mj were taxed and regulated the same way as tobacco, it would be a huge source of income for the government.
post #77 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by Storm Bride View Post
Why do people think that Phelps, as a competitive athlete, should be condemned for smoking pot on the grounds that he's not looking after his body?
Because, as an American, his body belongs to ME. :
post #78 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by karina5 View Post
AKRotts, that's cool that you have no interest in smoking pot or drinking alcohol. That is your personal choice, obviously. :-)

But if you are genuinely interested in how making marijuana legal would be beneficial, there is quite a bit of information on this (it's one of my favorite topics actually). It's quite fascinating, really, and just as an FYI - there are a lot of people that are like you (don't smoke pot, will never smoke pot) who feel that it is wrong that pot is illegal.
I've never smoked pot, and don't think I would because of the legality issue. But, if it were legal and if it helps with migraine headache pain, it would probably be preferable to the (legal) addictive and very strong narcotic medicines I've been given for my severe migraines. I'm afraid to try it since it's illegal. It frustrates me that there is something that might be safer than what I'm using, but that it is illegal.

Anyway, on topic, I don't care in the slightest that Michael Phelps smokes pot. Celebrities are, sadly, role models, although it's a weird phenomenon that they are. But they can't and shouldn't be expected to be perfect. They are human beings. I am confident I can teach my child to be healthy and responsible despite Mr. Phelps and his bong.
post #79 of 181
And did anyone SEE his diet? It was phenomenally bad, by almost any standards. While it was mentioned here at MDC that he was eating crap, not one single person thought that he was failing as a "role model." Even though, technically speaking, a diet like that is probably way worse for the average person than getting stoned every weekend. Where's the outrage? Oh, eating really horribly isn't against the law. Should it be?






(I would hope the obvious answer is of course not, but with so many people sincerely believing that the illegality of marijuana makes this a safer, healthier country, I'm not so sure.)
post #80 of 181
When I first read about him smoking pot, my first thought was that explains his diet.
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