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post #81 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ks Mama View Post
In fact, I think alcohol SHOULD be illegal... precisely because, back to your original point, "but you should really think before judging others who are fully capable of making their own decisions regarding right and wrong", and thanks for making it, there are A LOT of people who drink, who ARE NOT fully capable of making their own decisions regarding right & wrong - and Michael Phelps is one of them - as he has driven drunk in the past (and as such, I don't think his decision making regarding mind/mood altering substances should be lauded).
Please do some more research on what prohibition actually has accomplished when it's put into practice. In theory, idealistically, it's a beautiful, pristine, smiley utopia with less crime and more civic duty. In REALITY it does not play out that way. It has not, it is not, and it will not. History is a great teacher if people will just listen.
post #82 of 181
I was more disappointed in how the whole thing got so blown up. So MP smokes a little pot, I don't care. He's not my child. And all those who expect him to be the perfect role model for their children, I would hate to see what they do in the dark or what skeletons are lurking in their closets. No one is perfect and we, as a society need to quit putting celebrities, sports figures, etc up on pedestals.
At dinner one night my dd and I were talking about role models and I asked her if she had any role models, her response was me and my niece .
post #83 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by Collinsky View Post
Please do some more research on what prohibition actually has accomplished when it's put into practice. In theory, idealistically, it's a beautiful, pristine, smiley utopia with less crime and more civic duty. In REALITY it does not play out that way. It has not, it is not, and it will not. History is a great teacher if people will just listen.

Well, I guess I've really fallen on the wrong side of the MDC line on this one somehow? This is natural family living, yet we have a slew of MDC moms talking about how great it is to smoke a drug (herbal, but a drug nonetheless), how its really helpful, wonderful, just an herb, etc. Bizzare assertions coming from otherwise educated & natural & grounded MOTHERS, whose parenting advice is often quite wise: "Yes, its illegal, but who cares". "It's perfectly fine to treat depression and other psychological troubles with drugs" (I read that its not okay to treat depression & other ailments with prescribed meds, but self-medicating with pot is fine, apaprently). "we should continue to allow free access to alcohol" (because as we see, people self medicating with alohol as they do, really helps society overall).

At the same time, my position that the choice to injest or smoke poisons in an effort to change your state of mind, "fix" problems, just get high/experiment, isn't the right path has been shot down. This IS MDC right? I'm sorry, that is just NOT an okay way to live life, and I wouldn't want it for my children.

See, I've always thought getting to the ROOT of a problem, instead of drugging it, is the best way of dealing with problems. I teach my children through example that if they have a problem, to talk about it, to work together to come to a solution. I teach them to treat their bodies well, not to injest harmful substances. Herbs are included with that (though posts have been made with the assumption that those against pot are against it simply because it's illegal - which is not a correct assumption. Personally, I do not think ingesting any chemicals with an effort to get high or mask problems, herbal or pharmaceutical or otherwise, is the right path). Masking the symptoms of ailments instead of confronting them, THAT is a bigger problem in this society than the illegality of pot. Frankly, if more people would learn how to use their bodies & minds to heal themselves, instead of using drugs to cover up their problems & ailments, the laws surrounding drugs wouldn't even be at issue.

But maybe I should just do some more reading up on it. Apparently I'm just really at a loss with my lack of research about the benefits of pot & alcohol, and really out of touch with the majority of MDC. Huh.
post #84 of 181
Wow. That was a tad holier than thou.

I don't smoke pot, nor do I drink alcohol. I've got a slew of alcoholic cousins and uncles, so I don't think I come from a good gene pool for drinking. I don't currently smoke pot because it is illegal.

I certainly wouldn't characterize pot as a poison. I suppose that if you smoke bales of it, it could have toxic effects, but ingesting huge quantities of many otherwise benign substances can have toxic effects.

The people I've seen who smoke a little pot aren't doing it to drug themselves into oblivion or run away from problems. It might be used for that by a minority of users, but I believe the majority use it because it's a pleasant, relaxing experience. That's the way I feel about chocolate or the way my husband feels about his occasional glass of merlot.

Perhaps doing a little research from unbiased sources isn't a bad idea.

Collinsky makes a very good point. Prohibition wasn't the answer for alcohol, and it's not the answer for pot, either.
post #85 of 181
Ks Mama, I mean this is the nicest way: you are not very educated on the use of MJ or the benefits/risks. It's not a poison, I don't know where you got that idea. You really should do some research, from a variety of sources (you know, not anti-drug sites/books).

I didn't read people saying it's such a wonderful drug, everyone should be doing it and that who cares if it is illegal. I read that there are many who do not believe it should be illegal and that it's much safer than alcohol, crappy food, and the millions of pharmacutical drugs so many americans take daily.

And FWIW, I no longer partake, but I get frustrated when the people who get all up in arms about a little pot use are the ones who have usually never once tried it and put it in the same category as real drugs. They just come off sounding highly uneducated and close minded. (I am not referring to you, just anti-marijuana people in general).
post #86 of 181
I neither smoke nor drink, either recreationally, or socially, or medicinally. No desire to. If pot became as legal as licorice tomorrow, I wouldn't smoke it.

What I am saying is that making marijuana and/or alcohol illegal is NOT "getting to the root of the problem", and it has the opposite effect from what was intended by those who favor prohibition.

And I think what the others are saying is that everything we put in our bodies has to be weighed on an individual basis, based on facts and not propaganda. You've indicated that you don't believe in taking any medication or herbs at all, so naturally marijuana would fall into that category and that's understandable. But to say that marijuana differs from other herbs is not quite true. Different plants, used different ways, have different properties and different effects.There are other far more toxic (poisonous) herbs that have been used as medicinal cures for centuries. In almost all indigenous cultures, there is some usage of mind-altering plants - even if only by the shaman/healer/Wise Man.

Like I said, I don't want to smoke anything. I neither think more nor less of Phelps because of this. He's his own person, just as we are, just as our children are. If he chooses to smoke weed EVERY DAY OF HIS LIFE, what business is it of mine? It is not one of those things that has any effect on me, my family, or my life. Different people have different philosophies on what is healthy, what is acceptable, what is good, what is bad.

If Phelps moved next door and started a meth lab in his basement... that would be something I'd be up in arms about.

ETA: In principle, I agree with much of what you said, Ks Mama. I think an awful lot of things that are medicated for actually need to be met at a different level. I don't think that is something that can or should be mandated and regulated by the government. I think it's immoral to try to do so.
post #87 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ks Mama View Post
Bizzare assertions coming from otherwise educated & natural & grounded MOTHERS, whose parenting advice is often quite wise: "Yes, its illegal, but who cares".
I make my choices based on what I believe is right, not on what the law says. I always have. Laws put in place to protect me from myself make the assumption that a lawmaker who was trying to control the hemp industry many decades ago is better placed to make my life decisions than I am. I disagree. Laws put in place to protect people from each other (speeding, assault, rape, etc.) are the ones I pay attention to.

Quote:
"It's perfectly fine to treat depression and other psychological troubles with drugs" (I read that its not okay to treat depression & other ailments with prescribed meds, but self-medicating with pot is fine, apaprently).
Pot worked better for me in my teens than prescribed meds did when I was 30 (the meds did work, but not as well as the pot). Again...I don't assume that a doctor is able to figure out what is working for me better than I am. I know what's going on in my body. They don't.

Quote:
At the same time, my position that the choice to injest or smoke poisons in an effort to change your state of mind, "fix" problems, just get high/experiment, isn't the right path has been shot down. This IS MDC right? I'm sorry, that is just NOT an okay way to live life, and I wouldn't want it for my children.

See, I've always thought getting to the ROOT of a problem, instead of drugging it, is the best way of dealing with problems. I teach my children through example that if they have a problem, to talk about it, to work together to come to a solution. I teach them to treat their bodies well, not to injest harmful substances.
Holier than thou much?
My mother taught me all those things, too. For example, we ate a healthier diet than anybody else I knew (virtually no processed food, homegrown veggies, fruit from our own trees, etc.). However, someone in the grip of a profound depression, including hourly thoughts of suicide, isn't able to rationally process those lessons. The "root" of my problem was that I didn't think like most other people, I was being bullied, and I had a "severe maladjustment to my peer group" (in the words of the one shrink my mom dragged me off to). I also had (have) profound trust issues with authority figures (not parents - institutional authority, such as doctors, teachers, social workers, police officers, etc.), based on my own experiences with people in those positions. Talking out my issues with those people was not going to happen. I was afraid if my mom knew just how bad it was, she'd require me to deal with such people, so I reluctantly avoided talking to her, too.

Quote:
Personally, I do not think ingesting any chemicals with an effort to get high or mask problems, herbal or pharmaceutical or otherwise, is the right path). Masking the symptoms of ailments instead of confronting them, THAT is a bigger problem in this society than the illegality of pot.
I agree completely. However, I also don't see any way to force other people to look after themselves properly. I'm not big on making laws prohibiting people from behaving in ways that I consider unhealthy - their bodies, their choice. "Confronting" mental illness is also far from a straightforward process.

I personally wouldn't ever touch pot again. I'm still glad it was there to keep me alive during my teens...even if my teachers and people like you would have rather watched me drop dead than do something they didn't approve of.
post #88 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by Storm Bride View Post
...even if my teachers and people like you would have rather watched me drop dead than do something they didn't approve of.
Wow, people like me? Do you even know me? I would have rather seen someone die than do something I didn't approve of? That's HORRIBLE. Where did I ever say that?!? That assertion by you is WAY over the line. Poor form.
post #89 of 181
I think it's funny that there are people who have their undies all wedged up because of this. Seriously. They deserve to have them yanked up a little higher even. I have never understood why people put complete strangers up on a pedestal. He didn't ask to be put there. Too many people create images in their heads as to how certain people should behave and there's no good reason for it.

To Michael: Puff, puff, pass!
post #90 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by tayndrewsmama View Post

To Michael: Puff, puff, pass!

: :

you know, to anyone who thinks marijuana is dangerous: does it help put it into perspective to realize that no one, in the history of time, before or after prohibition has ever died from 'over-dosing' on pot. Yet, look at the number of deaths from medications such as Tylenol, which many parents feel no shame giving to their teething kid.

I agree with those who said we should be more upset with a possible "role model" eating a horrible diet, than hitting a bong. Regardless of what is legal/illegal, I don't want my kids to think it's okay to eat crap all thier lives.
post #91 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ks Mama View Post
Bizzare assertions coming from otherwise educated & natural & grounded MOTHERS, whose parenting advice is often quite wise: "Yes, its illegal, but who cares". "It's perfectly fine to treat depression and other psychological troubles with drugs" (I read that its not okay to treat depression & other ailments with prescribed meds, but self-medicating with pot is fine, apaprently).
Lots of MOTHERS here use medication. It would be wonderful if our bodies and minds never needed any help, but for most that is not the case. All we can do (other than leaving real problems untreated) is try to choose the treatment option that is best for the body.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ks Mama View Post
"we should continue to allow free access to alcohol" (because as we see, people self medicating with alohol as they do, really helps society overall).
Who said this? I haven't seen anything remotely similar to this line of thought.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ks Mama View Post
At the same time, my position that the choice to injest or smoke poisons in an effort to change your state of mind, "fix" problems, just get high/experiment, isn't the right path has been shot down.
Poisons? Where did you come up with that?

It may not be the right path for you, but you don't get to choose everyone's path.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ks Mama View Post
This IS MDC right? I'm sorry, that is just NOT an okay way to live life, and I wouldn't want it for my children.
This IS MDC, yes. I take it you missed the MJ/Cannabis tribe? And the article on marijuana for morning sickness?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ks Mama View Post
I teach them to treat their bodies well, not to injest harmful substances. Herbs are included with that (though posts have been made with the assumption that those against pot are against it simply because it's illegal - which is not a correct assumption. Personally, I do not think ingesting any chemicals with an effort to get high or mask problems, herbal or pharmaceutical or otherwise, is the right path).
Marijuana isn't a chemical, and herbs aren't harmful substances. You don't let your kids have rosemary or basil?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ks Mama View Post
Masking the symptoms of ailments instead of confronting them, THAT is a bigger problem in this society than the illegality of pot. Frankly, if more people would learn how to use their bodies & minds to heal themselves, instead of using drugs to cover up their problems & ailments, the laws surrounding drugs wouldn't even be at issue.
It is wonderful that you've never faced an ailment that your body couldn't heal on its own...but when you are sitting there making these judgments, try and think of a chemo patient who can't keep their food in, an asthmatic, or a new mama with PPD. Are they not trying hard enough? Should we refuse them treatment, or look down on them for not healing themselves without treatment?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ks Mama View Post
But maybe I should just do some more reading up on it. Apparently I'm just really at a loss with my lack of research about the benefits of pot & alcohol, and really out of touch with the majority of MDC. Huh.
How did "benefits of alcohol" come into the conversation? ...You should do some reading, agreed.
post #92 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ks Mama View Post
Wow, people like me? Do you even know me? I would have rather seen someone die than do something I didn't approve of? That's HORRIBLE. Where did I ever say that?!? That assertion by you is WAY over the line. Poor form.
You choose to support the criminalization of marijuana. You choose to judge what I should have done while in the throes of brutal and severe mental illness (with, I might add, a whopping 15 years of life experience to guide me through it). You choose to state that people like me should use our minds and bodies to heal ourselves. You choose to state that people such as I should not have used pot, because you disagree with it.

If I had paid attention to the laws about pot - if I had continued to try to get through on my own, through sheer will power - if the law (that you support) had been more effective in keeping pot away from me - I would, in all likelihood, be dead this past 20+ years.

As for the part I bolded...you don't know me, either - but you're more than happy to tell me how I should be allowed to live my life and/or manage my own problems.
post #93 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ks Mama View Post
Frankly, if more people would learn how to use their bodies & minds to heal themselves, instead of using drugs to cover up their problems & ailments, the laws surrounding drugs wouldn't even be at issue.

But maybe I should just do some more reading up on it. Apparently I'm just really at a loss with my lack of research about the benefits of pot & alcohol, and really out of touch with the majority of MDC. Huh.
First, do some research. Alcohol is legal and does far more damage than pot ever has. Pot has medicinal benefits, as several other PP have mentioned.

Second, if the FDA were not so corrupt and the government didn't make so much money prosecuting people for the war on drugs people would be free to heal themselves without fear of arrest, wouldn't they?
post #94 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by Storm Bride View Post
You choose to support the criminalization of marijuana.

If I had paid attention to the laws about pot - if I had continued to try to get through on my own, through sheer will power - if the law (that you support) had been more effective in keeping pot away from me - I would, in all likelihood, be dead this past 20+ years.

As for the part I bolded...you don't know me, either - but you're more than happy to tell me how I should be allowed to live my life and/or manage my own problems.
Where did I say I support the criminalization of pot? I did suggest that alcohol should be illegal, being that I believe its a far more damaging substance than pot. Don't recall throwing my support behind criminalizing pot.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Storm Bride View Post
You choose to judge what I should have done while in the throes of brutal and severe mental illness (with, I might add, a whopping 15 years of life experience to guide me through it). You choose to state that people like me should use our minds and bodies to heal ourselves. You choose to state that people such as I should not have used pot, because you disagree with it.
Actually, in my recollection, with the exception of the few statments I directed towards answering the OP's question of Michael Phelps, the rest of my statements were about my beliefs & choices about my life & my children. I don't see where I ever said what YOU should have done or should do.

I don't recall stating that YOU should not have used pot? You're taking this whole thread really personally & putting your anger on me without justification.

I'm sorry for your trials. I hope you can continue to heal.
post #95 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ks Mama View Post
I did suggest that alcohol should be illegal, being that I believe its a far more damaging substance than pot.
I'm sorry, but your name is 'Ks Mama,' not 'KS Mama,' right?

I kept reading it as KS Mama and thinking of Carrie Nation. :
post #96 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigeyes View Post
I'm sorry, but your name is 'Ks Mama,' not 'KS Mama,' right?

I kept reading it as KS Mama and thinking of Carrie Nation. :
I don't know who Carrie Nation is, and yeah, its K's Mama. Why?
post #97 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ks Mama View Post
I don't know who Carrie Nation is, and yeah, its K's Mama. Why?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carrie_Nation

since you think alcohol should be illegal and I was mis-reading your name, it struck me funny.

Then I realized it was Ks not KS
post #98 of 181
Just wanted to chime in as another non-smoker who supports legalization of mj.

I have smoked pot. Back in high school, I smoked it daily. After high school, I gradually became less and less interested in it. By the time I was 19, I didn't smoke at all.

Now, at 24, I haven't smoked in 5 years. I have no plan to smoke again. At this point in my life, I don't like the way it makes me feel.

However, many people I know, including DH, smoke occasionally to regularly. They're all upstanding, law-abiding (for the most part) citizens. They all work, go to college... you know, normal adult behavior.

Like Storm Bride, we all consider ourselves adults capable of making our own informed decisions, including the decision to use (or not to use) mj. Providing we aren't hurting anyone, which we aren't, we believe we reserve the right to govern ourselves and our bodies as we see fit. I don't need a governmental parental unit trying to "protect me from myself".

There are many misconceptions about weed, and about the people who use it. I would like to take this time to mention that those misconceptions are there for a reason: they have been deliberately and shamlessly promoted by those "behind the curtain".

There are very few stereotypical, often propaganda-related, concepts that are tolerated on MDC. Racism and classism, just to name two, would never be tolerated here, because we know well the dangers of close-minded thinking. The same applies here. True, non-biased education is in order to fully understand the subject of mj use. To get that, one must first clear their mind of all other pre-formed notions of MJ use and users, which is a very difficult feat. But, once you commit to it, and open your mind to the idea that MJ is an herb, which can be used in many different ways, and the real reasons it was made illegal... well, it's enlightening, and scary when you consider the people who govern this country can (and have) do whatever suits THEIR best interest and not the people's.

Anyhow, sorry about that tangent. I do somewhat get worked up over this topic. I'm a strong believer in "What other people do in their free time, in the privacy of their own lives, provided it hurts no one, is none of my business". This sentiment includes use of MJ.
post #99 of 181
K's Mama, your post sounds like something straight out of the DARE program. It's obvious you are not very well versed in the benefits and effects of marijuana use. Fine, I don't expect everyone to be an expert.

But when you call it a poison and act holier than thou, it just comes off as ignorant. You yourself admit you are not well read on this subject, and obviously many of us here (that have researched it in depth) disagree with you.

Why not open your mind a bit? No one is saying you need to go puff on a joint tomorrow. We are just saying that if you were educated on the subject, you would probably not see it as a big deal AT ALL. Because it's NOT. Plain and simple.

And how on earth you came to the assumption that we think alcohol is beneficial is beyond me, I must have missed that post. Alcohol IS a poision, and while I'm not giving up my occasional glass of red wine, I'm also one of the first to say it is very harmful to your body in excess.
post #100 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigeyes View Post
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carrie_Nation

since you think alcohol should be illegal and I was mis-reading your name, it struck me funny.

Then I realized it was Ks not KS
lol!
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