Frustrated.... help me, Nancy Drews. - Page 15

[Theloose]

Originally Posted by ellasmama2007

we're right there too, girls. i dont yell though, but lately more and more i just feel so depressed. like i dont know how to do this anymore depressed. and im trying so hard to embrace my paradigm and i feel like crap when i see mamas so strong and educated and i just keep whining on here about our issues. the frustration has just turned to this bleak feeling of "let us just survive this" and learn from it too and change our lives and everything too, but the depression is getting unbearable. for me, the feelings of no healing progress for dd and lack of sleep are i think the biggest contributors.
poor dh is there with you on the yelling. he just wants to punch a wall every time dd wakes up at night (which is constantly obviously), but he doesnt. he is definitely shutting down though. i think counseling is def in our near future. anybody else there?

I bet that what we all have in common, biochemically, is that our detox pathways are clogged. Maybe see if you can open one? I feel normal when I supplement crazy amounts (2g/day) of pantothenic acid - which is the precursor to coenzyme A, which used both as a detox pathway (acetylation), and by the adrenals. Some people report they feel much better with lots of EFA's - which are needed to make glutathione, another really important detox pathway. Some people do really well with magnesium - which is needed for the methylation cycle, which is important for THREE detox pathways.

Also, on the other side of the methylation diagram is how dopamine and serotonin are made. Serotonin is the target for many antidepressants, and I associate dopamine with being able to focus on the outside world. (more info)

The main variables at work on those two are another MTHFR mutation, dietary protein, methyl groups again, and the power of positive thinking. They're also broken down by amine enzymes, so I wonder if eating more amines (to use up the resources) could have an effect? I'm totally guessing on that one though.

[WuWei]

whome, you are brilliant. That article is fascinating, describes our whole family.


Pat

[WuWei]

Ellasmama, magnesium, magnesium, magnesium.


Pat

[Panserbjorne]

YES!!! I am thrilled. I have been talking for years about opening detox pathways and just heard crickets chirping. This is so exciting!!!

[Panserbjorne]

whome....you are doing so well with this! I can't believe how well you are picking it up on your own. You have a great mind. And yes, you are GREAT at teaching!

[Theloose]

Originally Posted by Panserbjørne

whome....you are doing so well with this! I can't believe how well you are picking it up on your own. You have a great mind. And yes, you are GREAT at teaching!

Okay, this totally makes my day. : And it's just what I needed right now, cause the high of figuring it all out is just starting to wear off...

Originally Posted by Panserbjørne

YES!!! I am thrilled. I have been talking for years about opening detox pathways and just heard crickets chirping. This is so exciting!!!

I always assumed you were being mysterious and didn't want to impose to ask for more... I definitely heard you! And please correct me if I'm missing anything.

[Theloose]

Originally Posted by WuWei

Ellasmama, magnesium, magnesium, magnesium.


Pat

And I can supplement all sorts of magnesium, and get nothing.
(cool new chart)
Because it's not my limiting factor in detox mode - magnesium is involved in the conversion of homocysteine to cysteine and sulfate, but I'm blocked earlier with folate. I wonder if there's a way to tell what your genes are based on what effect different supplements have...

[lil_miss_understood]

Originally Posted by Panserbjørne

YES!!! I am thrilled. I have been talking for years about opening detox pathways and just heard crickets chirping. This is so exciting!!!

I asked about it before in one thread that no one answered... and then I got pregnant.

[pokeymama]

Originally Posted by TanyaLopez

I wonder if my methylation is _still_ wimpy, because I still have lots of high estrogen days (eggwhite cervical fluid)--next month I'll count again, but it seems on the very high end of normal, and hey, I'm almost 34, not a spring chicken.

Would you elaborate, or is this something the link will explain? I've noticed over the past few months, maybe longer, that I'm having a LOT of EWCF. I don't chart (need to start FAM though), but I think it's around ovulation AND during my period (something more than the blood, sorry for the TMI). I've never been like this before. And I'm 36.

Betsey

[Panserbjorne]

Originally Posted by JacquelineR

I asked about it before in one thread that no one answered... and then I got pregnant.

Oh NO! I'm so sorry! Always feel free to bug me. I don't always sub to the threads and get follow up emails. Plus sometimes it doesn't notify until 4 pages into thread. I hope that you are getting it now!

[Panserbjorne]

Originally Posted by whoMe

I always assumed you were being mysterious and didn't want to impose to ask for more... I definitely heard you! And please correct me if I'm missing anything.

::

That is generally not the case (and when it is it's pretty obvious!)

I just feel like anytime I give too much info people get overwhelmed. I go with less is more and let people start asking what they need to. Otherwise I have to undo most of what I've done...but not generally with this crowd!

[tanyalynn]

Originally Posted by pokeymama

Would you elaborate, or is this something the link will explain? I've noticed over the past few months, maybe longer, that I'm having a LOT of EWCF. I don't chart (need to start FAM though), but I think it's around ovulation AND during my period (something more than the blood, sorry for the TMI). I've never been like this before. And I'm 36.

Betsey

It's just that the final thing that made me realize my body was really off was my hormonal stuff (before this I wasn't very sensitive to changes with my cycles--they were very predictable, rock-steady) but I saw that I was having a lot of EWCF and more worryingly, my luteal phase was 6 days. Um, not good (and it'd clearly been like that a while, I just hadn't been charting). Our bodies make estrogen pre-ovulation, but our livers take it apart (detoxify it) and so normally the balance works out that there's this increasing process, a change from no CF to wetter and wetter, and then you have a few days of EWCF. I'm still noticing that I go from zero to 60 (nothing to EWCF) in 6-8 hours and then I have EWCF for about 5 or 6 days, and it gets to be a lot before I ovulate. So whome's link talked about our bodies breaking down estrogen with methylation, so I need to see if there are any other detoxification pathways that deal with estrogen (cause it does seem like some chemicals can use multiple pathways, which makes sense and is handy) to see if there could be anything else going on. So maybe I am just starting to make estrogen all at once (no idea why that would/could happen) but since I know my detoxification is weak (and very busy with other stuff, I still seem to be getting rid of a lot of heavy metals and weird stuff) maybe that's it.

And whome, I'm still thrilled that you're talking about this so much. Ya know something? My daughter and husband are _not_ prone to the type of stuff my son and I are, and they use a lot of magnesium. I've been supp-ing my daughter for years, and if I cut back, she has a hard time falling asleep even now. I'm wondering if part of the reason they use so much is these detox pathways, especially glucuronidation--"many commonly prescribed drugs are detoxified through this pathway"--I want to read a bit more, to see if that includes the common painkillers--my husband and his brother and sister all have had problems with injuries (being sewn up and whatnot) and not enough painkillers (they wear off really fast). I'm the opposite with painkillers and cold medicine and stuff.

[Theloose]

Originally Posted by TanyaLopez

And whome, I'm still thrilled that you're talking about this so much. Ya know something? My daughter and husband are _not_ prone to the type of stuff my son and I are, and they use a lot of magnesium. I've been supp-ing my daughter for years, and if I cut back, she has a hard time falling asleep even now. I'm wondering if part of the reason they use so much is these detox pathways, especially glucuronidation--"many commonly prescribed drugs are detoxified through this pathway"--I want to read a bit more, to see if that includes the common painkillers--my husband and his brother and sister all have had problems with injuries (being sewn up and whatnot) and not enough painkillers (they wear off really fast). I'm the opposite with painkillers and cold medicine and stuff.

Knowing all that, I bet you'd have a fairly straightforward time guessing some of your family's genes! To focus your attention on the painkillers, know that aspirin (NSAID, salicylate) can inhibit the methylation cycle. And I'd pay attention to glutathione in phase I liver detox.

Also, CBS, the enzyme that starts the transsulfuration sequence (homocysteine->glutathion, homocysteine->sulfate) requires magnesium and B6 and has a mutation that upregulates it. Meaning there would be less homocysteine->methionine, and therefore lower production of methyl groups and increased need for dietary methionine?

[Theloose]

Originally Posted by Panserbjørne

::

That is generally not the case (and when it is it's pretty obvious!)

I just feel like anytime I give too much info people get overwhelmed. I go with less is more and let people start asking what they need to. Otherwise I have to undo most of what I've done...but not generally with this crowd!

K, overwhelm me. I have a doctor's appointment tomorrow for any testing Stanford can do, and to develop a detoxing plan. What questions should I ask, what genes are most relevant to test and how important is it, and any general advice that I'm not thinking to ask?

[WuWei]

Originally Posted by whoMe

And I can supplement all sorts of magnesium, and get nothing.
(cool new chart)
Because it's not my limiting factor in detox mode - magnesium is involved in the conversion of homocysteine to cysteine and sulfate, but I'm blocked earlier with folate. I wonder if there's a way to tell what your genes are based on what effect different supplements have...

YES, please keep hunting. I'm way behind you on this one. But, we have seen amazing benefits from magnesium, and interestingly the homocysteine seems to be our hidden variable. I'm curious to hear more about the "blocked earlier with folate" pathway issue. What symptoms or cues do you experience/observe regarding that?

Thanks so much for your research! It is helping a lot of folks, I believe. Did you see the new ladies on the MTHFR (boy that acronym is rough) thread? But, then it sorta seems to be ironic.



Pat

[WuWei]

Originally Posted by Panserbjørne

YES!!! I am thrilled. I have been talking for years about opening detox pathways and just heard crickets chirping. This is so exciting!!!

That was me whistling and wondering 'What the he!! is she talking about? I don't have time to figure that out, whatever it means.' : I knew you were excited about this detox stuff. So, it seems that the (non-classical-what term is used?) homeopathy supports the individual pathways to improve detox ability? So, you are treating with minute amounts of the substances which "cause" the organ problem which is necessary for successful excretion or neutralizing of the toxins??? Or with the substances which cause the toxins? Curious...


Pat

[Panserbjorne]

Originally Posted by whoMe

K, overwhelm me. I have a doctor's appointment tomorrow for any testing Stanford can do, and to develop a detoxing plan. What questions should I ask, what genes are most relevant to test and how important is it, and any general advice that I'm not thinking to ask?

Ooooh, that sounds great! The doc that I'm precepting with is a whiz at this and I have a call into her right now. This is what she DOES so I'd rather ask her than give you my suggestions and miss something.

The way I study this presently isn't the way you are looking at it and doesn't require blood testing, but I think it's totally valid. I dont' want to short-change you!

FWIW we're hung up at folate as well. We actually do mega supplement! I can't remember if I said it here but when I really started using critical thinking in biochem and clinical nutrition was when I started realizing that it wasn't a folate deficiency that was affecting babies with midline issues, but detoxification issues with obstructed pathways. I'm SO GLAD you are learning this and helping everyone else as well!

I know many of you have heard me say that some of us have a genetic requirement for more folate...but this is where the action is right here. Understanding how the body is handling it and why.

Whome is very quickly getting to the point of tying this all together.

[Panserbjorne]

Originally Posted by WuWei

That was me whistling and wondering 'What the he!! is she talking about? I don't have time to figure that out, whatever it means.' : I knew you were excited about this detox stuff. So, it seems that the (non-classical-what term is used?) homeopathy supports the individual pathways to improve detox ability? So, you are treating with minute amounts of the substances which "cause" the organ problem which is necessary for successful excretion or neutralizing of the toxins??? Or with the substances which cause the toxins? Curious...


Pat

There are two aspects.....drainage is organ specific and is homeopathic in nature. There are also remedies that have affinities for certain organs that wouldn't necessarily be toxic to them, but are more effective used in dilution (like a 3X) than as a mother tincture. Then there are other remedies that are more isopathic and can be used to handle the overflow.

The one "right remedy" will change the way you detoxify. But the problem is that it's very difficult in classical homeopathy (not that it can't be done mind you) to separate out disease from suppression from iatrogenic and nutritional factors.

Someone who is dealing with depression can be helped immensely with homeopathy but how do you determine if their issue is a biochemical imbalance or a simple nutrient deficiency? A remedy can optimize the function, but it's not going to replace the basic need for vitamin D (or iodine, or magnesium, or essential fatty acids etc...)

The miasmatic approach actually does have tools in place for this which is why *I* think the successes are so much more profound. There are people who are well known for using this approach and have amazing successes...unlocking cases that noone else can.

Anyway....yes, it's FASCINATING to me!

[WuWei]

Originally Posted by whoMe

Knowing all that, I bet you'd have a fairly straightforward time guessing some of your family's genes! To focus your attention on the painkillers, know that aspirin (NSAID, salicylate) can inhibit the methylation cycle. And I'd pay attention to glutathione in phase I liver detox.

Also, CBS, the enzyme that starts the transsulfuration sequence (homocysteine->glutathion, homocysteine->sulfate) requires magnesium and B6 and has a mutation that upregulates it. Meaning there would be less homocysteine->methionine, and therefore lower production of methyl groups and increased need for dietary methionine?

Could we have the Cliff's Notes version of what you just said? And in relation to the 6 different detox pathways? And how do we know where our detox block is? (that's all I want to know, lol)

Pat

[WuWei]

Thanks Elizabeth, that's about what I thought. But, was sold on the 'one true remedy' and resisted your prior (similar) explanations.


Pat