Frustrated.... help me, Nancy Drews. - Page 17

[Theloose]

Originally Posted by Panserbjørne

I missed this. This is what we are doing as well along with B6, biotin and intracellular glutathione (with N acetyl cysteine.) Does your dd require vast amounts of protein to help with the methylation as well? And are at the point yet of finding magnesium helpful?

So are you at all worried about partially open pathways? I haven't figured out if I want to just add folate then see what I need next, or if I want to try to get things totally open then do the folate. Okay, writing that I know the answer is to just do the folate cause otherwise it's all guesswork anyway. Yeah? Forms of folate?

[Panserbjorne]

Originally Posted by whoMe

Acetyl coA. So in the acetylation detox pathway and krebs cycle. I haven't attacked krebs cycle yet...

Dude. You answered your own question while I ate dinner. Look at you go! :

[ellasmama2007]

ok, dd is not going to be able to sleep without me holding and rocking her tonight again so i cant catch up on this thread right now but am so dying to. you chicks are smarties. holy crap, this is like college bio all over again (but way more interesting). thank you for all the pos feedback, ill hopefully be knee-deep in pathways, mthfr , maginesium, biotin, etc tomorrow. and i think im going to go back to taking my remedy cause we dont appear to be sleeping no matter what. bbl

[pokeymama]

Wow. I'm glad I checked out this thread. This has helped me understand a little bit more about detoxification. I have really just glanced over some stuff, though. At any rate, I'm understanding a bit more about the supps my chiro wants me to take.

I took a functional metabolic test that measured detox pathways (well, measured chemicals linked to them), cellular energy, neural function, bacteria, fatty acids, and B vitamin insufficiency. I was definitely B-vit deficient, my trans-fatty acids are high , I have too much acidopholus, and my something is up with my sulfate pathway. (OK, I checked out WhoMe's link about detox pathways last night and am at a different computer..can't look back at it for proper verbiage.) And I have that leaky gut going on of course.

So, I am taking L-Glutamine, a B complex, Betaine HCl, and enzymes, so far. My pendulum told me I ned a calcium supp, so I got that too. Next to introduce (and these are the iffy ones due to a soy ingredient or chelation issues) are NAC, a lipoic acid supp, a whole-food multi, and CoQ10. My pendulum tells me the LA and the NAC will be safe for me to take while BFing DS (he's 17 months) and my chiro's wife, an LC, has researched these and feels comfortable with me taking them. I do consult my crystal in the order to intro the supps, I think I'm to start the NAC Saturday. I'm going pretty slowly with the introductions. I started the CoQ10 the other day but the next day the pendulum told me to stop taking it. I think the soy in it caused a reaction in both me and DS (we're both IgG sensitive), and I admit I had been eating a little chocolate each day. Cumulative reaction perhaps?

Oh, and my pendulum says that I am having problems processing zinc. I need to go back and read what has been said about that. Last time I ate beets, many moons ago, I did have the pink pee I think. I can't piece the info together...this is the Panserbjorne, hold my hand thread, right?

Anyway, I have been meaning to post the results of the testing but never got around to it and this seemed the right place, what with the talk about detox pathways.

Sorry if this is rambly. Off to bed!

[Panserbjorne]

Originally Posted by whoMe

So are you at all worried about partially open pathways? I haven't figured out if I want to just add folate then see what I need next, or if I want to try to get things totally open then do the folate. Okay, writing that I know the answer is to just do the folate cause otherwise it's all guesswork anyway. Yeah? Forms of folate?

I'm still waiting to hear back from that doctor....hopefully I do before your appointment today!

And yes...you answered your own question! I know that different people tolerate different forms or rather experience results from different forms. We are using L-5-methyltetrahydrofolate. Otherwise known as L-5-MTHF. This seems to get great results in compromised folks.

[Theloose]

Originally Posted by Panserbjørne

I'm still waiting to hear back from that doctor....hopefully I do before your appointment today!

And yes...you answered your own question! I know that different people tolerate different forms or rather experience results from different forms. We are using L-5-methyltetrahydrofolate. Otherwise known as L-5-MTHF. This seems to get great results in compromised folks.

Cool.

I was reading this link about using all this to treat chronic fatigue. The author was worried about releasing toxins too fast by adding folate too quickly. My head is only giving me flickers of understanding at this point, but is this somehow related to the homeopathic doses of toxins to open up the pathways you're talking about?

Something about releasing toxins with the methyl cycle but not having other pathways open to release them? Or having them just create a blockade somewhere else? And teeny tiny doses will be let out without creating a blockade? And... head hurts...

[Theloose]

Off I go, wish me luck!

[Panserbjorne]

rats! I still haven't connected with her!

[lastrid]

Originally Posted by WildIris

I am so jealous of everyone on here who understands what everyone else is talking about.

Signed,
Overwhelmed in Michigan

I haven't caught up beyond this post yet, but I have to wholeheartedly concur. I haven't had enough time lately to do the reading that I'd like and I'm feeling like crap again. Well, not total crap, but there's obviously something big that I'm still missing. For both myself and DS. I'm thinking it's clogged detox pathways too, but I'm not processing how to figure out which ones and what to do about it. Any tips on what to ask my doctor in two weeks to see if she can figure it out? I think she would be really interested in this if she isn't already aware of it (using the homeopathy for drainage and such).

[Theloose]

Originally Posted by Panserbjørne

rats! I still haven't connected with her!

The appointment wasn't that helpful in the short term. Basically I pointed out how she misinterpreted my test, then told her to go back and study her biochem She wasn't quite as excited as I am

[ellasmama2007]

sorry whome, i was hoping it would be more helpful for you!

[ellasmama2007]

Originally Posted by whoMe

I bet that what we all have in common, biochemically, is that our detox pathways are clogged. Maybe see if you can open one? I feel normal when I supplement crazy amounts (2g/day) of pantothenic acid - which is the precursor to coenzyme A, which used both as a detox pathway (acetylation), and by the adrenals. Some people report they feel much better with lots of EFA's - which are needed to make glutathione, another really important detox pathway. Some people do really well with magnesium - which is needed for the methylation cycle, which is important for THREE detox pathways.

Also, on the other side of the methylation diagram is how dopamine and serotonin are made. Serotonin is the target for many antidepressants, and I associate dopamine with being able to focus on the outside world. (more info)

The main variables at work on those two are another MTHFR mutation, dietary protein, methyl groups again, and the power of positive thinking. They're also broken down by amine enzymes, so I wonder if eating more amines (to use up the resources) could have an effect? I'm totally guessing on that one though.

Originally Posted by WuWei

Ellasmama, magnesium, magnesium, magnesium.




Pat

whome, i wanted to read your whole mthfr/detox thread before i replied to this....
i am currently taking mag in pill form and i drink water kefir and eat fermented vegs but cant do bone broths. any thoughts on roughly how much mag i should need to help open up pathways? ( i know everyone is different so there may not be an answer)

[Theloose]

Originally Posted by ellasmama2007

whome, i wanted to read your whole mthfr/detox thread before i replied to this....
i am currently taking mag in pill form and i drink water kefir and eat fermented vegs but cant do bone broths. any thoughts on roughly how much mag i should need to help open up pathways? ( i know everyone is different so there may not be an answer)

Sorry, I have no clue. I *can* tell you that magnesium, along with B6 is required to open up the transsulfuration process to lower homocysteine and make glutathione and sulfate. If you take a reasonable amount of both and don't notice any difference, then that's not where you're blocked. It could be further up or further down the line.

Why can't you do bone broths?

[Astromom]

whoMe, because ellasmama is vegan.. (I think)

where are you all getting these B & mag etc supps that are allergen-free> (i.e. truly corn free) ?

typos, sorry nak

[Theloose]

Originally Posted by Astromom

whoMe, because ellasmama is vegan.. (I think)

where are you all getting these B & mag etc supps that are allergen-free> (i.e. truly corn free) ?

typos, sorry nak

ah. We don't react to traces, so I don't have to be that careful about supplements. I realized the thiamine I got is WF brand and may be gluten contaminated. Oops. If we get mucous poop, I'll find a new thiamine, but I think we have a good chance of being fine.

My threshold for what is a reaction is also probably higher than some here. Dh questions EVERYTHING in a scientific sort of 'prove it' way. And so things that don't affect quality of life tend to slide a bit.

[momofmine]

Okay, I've been trying to catch up on threads this morning, and I don't know where we're talking about what here, so I'll just post here!

I am really having light bulb moments this morning and last night. I have always considered the fact that we had toxins, etc, to deal with, but I never even THOUGHT that part of teh problem would be that the pathways by which my body would, potentially, excrete them would be clogged, thereby causing the body to reabsorb the toxins. (Have I got that right? I hope so!) Because that makes so much sense. Things have gotten better for me as I have made dietary and environmental changes over the years, but I think I haven't gotten to the root of the problem. I used to be more so, but I am still very sensitive to smells, perfumes, strong chemical smells, I can even taste shampoo in my mouth if I use too much on my scalp. I also am very sensitive to caffeine and alcohol (hyper with one cup, tipsy with one glass of wine). AND I have ALWAYS had overreactions to pharmaceutical medications. Like, I would need one-quarter the amount of pain medication that someone else would need. I had horrible experiences with pain meds the few times I took them in my life, like after surgery as a teenager. It completely knocked me out. I have though that about the abx I had as a teen too, which could be why I reacted much stronger to them.

Aacck, this is all coming together, but what does it mean my next step is? Should I try to get this test for MTHFR? Or does one just start with trying out supplementing with different things and seeing what works? I'm not sure I would know.

[Panserbjorne]

This is why I have been telling you specifically that you need drainage. You can get testing, but the right remedies can change it too. It really depends on your preference! You still need nutrients, but the opening of pathways and emunctories by remedies is another way to address it without testing.

I am doing both so I can track and evaluate (mostly so I can prove it to myself!) There are clinical cases where patients made no dietary changes, just used homeopathy and had incredible success.

[changingseasons]

I also have those sensitivities still- to strong smells, to pharmaceuticals (although I haven't taken any in a long time).

Is that something that my constitutional would address, or is this where you have to use individual remedies?

[Panserbjorne]

it would depend on the individual case. But I would venture to guess that many people here would need drainage!

[Theloose]

Originally Posted by momofmine

Aacck, this is all coming together, but what does it mean my next step is? Should I try to get this test for MTHFR? Or does one just start with trying out supplementing with different things and seeing what works? I'm not sure I would know.

Look at the detox pathways here, focusing on the phase II stuff to see if any jump out at you.
http://www.tuberose.com/Liver_Detoxification.html

what jumped out at me:

Glucuronidation

Glucuronidation, the combining of glucuronic acid with toxins, in Phase II can be reversed by Beta glucuronidase enzymes produced by pathological bacteria and cause toxins to be reabsorbed increasing toxicity. Many of the commonly prescribed drugs are detoxified through this pathway. It also helps to detoxify aspirin, menthol, vanillin (synthetic vanilla), food additives such as benzoates, and some hormones. Calcium d-glucurate, a natural ingredient found in certain vegetables and fruits can inhibit beta glucuronidase activity resulting in increased elimination of toxins.

If this is the main issue, then it's not so much nutritional as gut bacteria. So probiotics and calcium d-glucurate might make a big difference for you.