Frustrated.... help me, Nancy Drews. - Page 5

[lil_miss_understood]

From the second article I linked to:

Niacin, vitamin B3, stimulates HCl production. This can be taken before meals, as can magnesium chloride and pyridoxal-5-phosphate (the active form of vitamin B6) to help stimulate the body’s own HCl. I have suggested drinking the juice of half a lemon squeezed in water or a teaspoon of apple cider vinegar in a glass of warm water 20–30 minutes before meals with some success. Rosemary, ginger, cumin, or orange peel, used to make tea and drunk before meals, can also be helpful.

According to the same article, it's a lack of HCl which causes zinc and magnesium deficiency. So, to get enough zinc (and magnesium), you need to get more HCl, which is produced by B3, Magnesium and B6 (from what I'm gathering reading about it). So, a magnesium supplement, along with a B3 and B6 supp would probably help to produce more HCl, which in the long term would end up causing you to have less reliance on supplements in the future.
However, according to that same article, there are people who, because of stress factors, will not be able to produce enough HCl and will need a supplement (a fact I find difficult to believe).

ETA: Of course, PB will know better than I, but that's how I understand it.

[Panserbjorne]

that's because (I'm guessing) they are looking at effect of low HCl and not initial cause. At least that's what I'm thinking.

When you dont' have enough HCl you can't access dietary zinc and you have issues breaking down foods in general to extract nutrients. So ultimately it is true that you will be zinc deficient, but as per my biochem text and lectures the first thing you should do (assuming that it's an issue) is use zinc so that you can create HCl as well as offset the imbalance. The reality is that often people who are zinc deficient are also borderline copper toxic as a result....depending upon where you live. If you have copper pipes and low HCl you can get into real trouble.

B vitamins and magnesium can be helpful as well, but in my understanding not nearly so much as zinc. Of course the important part is WHY you are not producing HCl in the first place. It won't be the same for everyone which is why previously I said that I'm not a fan of "if A then B" because there are too many factors.

That article is probably referencing people who are popping OTC meds, eating a SAD diet and on a bunch of prescriptions. Restoring HCl can be done, pretty easily but it would be an uphill battle if you are doing a zillion things that are counterproductive. I wouldn't pay much attention either.

[Panserbjorne]

oh, and I also think (as always) that where the info comes from will influence what they see. A nutritionist will see it differently that an ND for instance. A nutritionist will be looking specifically at what a healthy body has to do to function whereas an ND will have the broader perspective of what other imbalances will affect nutrient absorption. Their learning will be emphasizing things of that nature....yeast overgrowth, metals, pharmocognosy, pharmacology, inherited imbalances and subsequent compensations etc.

[LauraLoo]

Originally Posted by JacquelineR

From the second article I linked to:


According to the same article, it's a lack of HCl which causes zinc and magnesium deficiency. So, to get enough zinc (and magnesium), you need to get more HCl, which is produced by B3, Magnesium and B6 (from what I'm gathering reading about it). So, a magnesium supplement, along with a B3 and B6 supp would probably help to produce more HCl, which in the long term would end up causing you to have less reliance on supplements in the future.
However, according to that same article, there are people who, because of stress factors, will not be able to produce enough HCl and will need a supplement (a fact I find difficult to believe).

Okay -- I haven't read PB's response to this, but my ds (anaphylatic to peanuts and tree nuts, allergic to soy) LOVES lemonaide. Besides water, milk, a very little juice here and there, he will only drink lemonaide. And he is consistently the one who seems to intuitively know what foods are good or bad for him. When we found out this past fall about his soy allergy, we did a massive gut healing treatment on him. He had white marks in his nails, as well as a pasty kind of appearance. I was actually worried that the lemonaide was going to negate some of the benefits of the enzymes and probiotics. I also couldn't imagine that the amount he was drinking wasn't going to give him an upset stomach! We also had added in a mag. supplement this past summer, but I think until we removed the soy from his diet, the mag wasn't able to fully do it's thing. I was noticing the other day, that most of his white marks on his nails were gone, he has a much better complexion, he no longer has loose bowels, but normal ones......In other words, he is markedly improved in roughly 6 months.

Okay -- now on to read PB's response.....

[LauraLoo]

From PB - B vitamins and magnesium can be helpful as well, but in my understanding not nearly so much as zinc.

This is good to know. So maybe I need to look into more zinc, and wean a bit off the mag.

Sometimes I feel like I'm brewing a big pot of soup....I keep messing with the ingredients, so it tastes different each time, but I don't have it exactly right, so I keep messing with it for the right balance of flavors.....

[lil_miss_understood]

Originally Posted by Panserbjørne

that's because (I'm guessing) they are looking at effect of low HCl and not initial cause. At least that's what I'm thinking.

Of course the important part is WHY you are not producing HCl in the first place. It won't be the same for everyone which is why previously I said that I'm not a fan of "if A then B" because there are too many factors.

That article is probably referencing people who are popping OTC meds, eating a SAD diet and on a bunch of prescriptions. Restoring HCl can be done, pretty easily but it would be an uphill battle if you are doing a zillion things that are counterproductive. I wouldn't pay much attention either.

Yes, that's what they were doing- looking at the effect, not the cause. I'm deducing my answers based on what they said, so I really appreciate hearing what you have to say. I hope you don't mind me (trying) to answer- I'm doing so in order to have my own questions answered (questions I haven't entirely *formed* yet to be able to ask directly).
Just to be clear, is this why a mineral analysis would be beneficial? Would a general nutritional panel give a better indication? Or again, the same test you suggested before (metal screen with nutritional analysis)? I know, I'm a PITA. Sorry.:

[kjbrown92]

Is there any way to tell low HCl without a test?
From my toxic hair element test my zinc is 190 (supposed to be <300) and my copper is 97 (supposed to be <70, it's up at the 99th percentile). So now you have me wondering about my HCl.
And this lemon thing is weird, because I've been having lemonade and lemon in my water all the time the last couple months.

[Panserbjorne]

Originally Posted by LauraLoo

From PB - B vitamins and magnesium can be helpful as well, but in my understanding not nearly so much as zinc.

This is good to know. So maybe I need to look into more zinc, and wean a bit off the mag.

Sometimes I feel like I'm brewing a big pot of soup....I keep messing with the ingredients, so it tastes different each time, but I don't have it exactly right, so I keep messing with it for the right balance of flavors.....

Zinc is essential for cellular integrity. If you do some reading on zinc I think it will give you a good idea of what even a subclinical deficiency can do. It is HUGELY important in the human body.

That said if you are seeing results with mag, keep it up! Most of us are also mag deficient due to excess calcium in the diet. I would never tell ANYONE to wean off mag unless they started having symptoms of imbalance that pointed to a magnesium excess.

Magnesium is also essential for the nervous system, gut health and detoxification. When you have a kiddo with gut issues always include the mag! An interesting point is in the absence of adequate magnesium germ life builds and intestinal putrifications products build.

Really, it's just super important to be nourished! As I said before no one nutrient is ever the answer....everything works in concert and it's the balance that is important.

Keep on cooking that soup mama!

[Panserbjorne]

Originally Posted by kjbrown92

Is there any way to tell low HCl without a test?
From my toxic hair element test my zinc is 190 (supposed to be <300) and my copper is 97 (supposed to be <70, it's up at the 99th percentile). So now you have me wondering about my HCl.
And this lemon thing is weird, because I've been having lemonade and lemon in my water all the time the last couple months.

keep drinking the lemon!

And yes, the beet test appears to be pretty reliable. There are other ways to test, but not for free! Juice or eat a bunch of beets and observe your urine. It should not change color if HCl is adequate.

[KimPM]

Can you get the testing done through DirectLabs?

http://www.directlabs.com/Tests/Howi...6/Default.aspx

[Panserbjorne]

Originally Posted by JacquelineR

Yes, that's what they were doing- looking at the effect, not the cause. I'm deducing my answers based on what they said, so I really appreciate hearing what you have to say. I hope you don't mind me (trying) to answer- I'm doing so in order to have my own questions answered (questions I haven't entirely *formed* yet to be able to ask directly).
Just to be clear, is this why a mineral analysis would be beneficial? Would a general nutritional panel give a better indication? Or again, the same test you suggested before (metal screen with nutritional analysis)? I know, I'm a PITA. Sorry.:

PLEASE! We are ALL here to learn from each other! What the heck would any of us know if we didn't keep yammering and reasoning through things? It's VERY important in looking at these things to consider different viewpoints and understand the discrepancies to the best of our abilitites. It's the only way to truly begin to understand. AND as an added bonus it helps us see the flaws in other people's logic and research. NOONE knows everything and the more you educate yourself the better off you will be. It's always best to make information your own and not rely on any one person.

One of my favorite things to do is read studies that I disagree with and try to figure out their logic, how they got there and what *I* would have done differently! I'm a geek though and I think we're all pretty clear on that.

Yes, this is why a mineral analysis would be beneficial. It shows how the body is working and where compensations are happening. In some cases it will actually show you why. I really like the hair test, but it's certainly not the only way.

[changingseasons]

I almost forgot about the carrots...

I just wanted to let you guys know that although DD's sleep is still crappy, the bubbles on her chin are gone... so they were definitely NOT from the carrots. They were either from the AS lamb or the water kefir (or both.) So I think the carrots might actually be a pass!!! (We're only on day 4, so it could still change... but I'm keeping optimistic.) If only I could figure out the sleep issues and the diaper rash.... :

[lil_miss_understood]

Originally Posted by changingseasons

I just wanted to let you guys know that although DD's sleep is still crappy, the bubbles on her chin are gone... so they were definitely NOT from the carrots. They were either from the AS lamb or the water kefir (or both.) So I think the carrots might actually be a pass!!! (We're only on day 4, so it could still change... but I'm keeping optimistic.) If only I could figure out the sleep issues and the diaper rash.... :

JacquelineR strikes again. Sorry. I was going to ask you what was going on with the carrots too.
The diaper rash and sleep isn't related to the carrots then?

[changingseasons]

Originally Posted by JacquelineR

JacquelineR strikes again. Sorry. I was going to ask you what was going on with the carrots too.
The diaper rash and sleep isn't related to the carrots then?

The diaper rash has been there for 2 months, since DD got her homeopathic remedy. I figured it was just the normal flaring from the remedy, but it didn't go away when the other symptoms did. It did get better when I stopped using cane sugar, but I just can't get it to completely go away. She's in panties all day (diaper at night), I'm using nystatin ointment twice a day... it just won't go away!! It's driving me crazy.

The sleep... I don't know. It could be the carrots. But I'm leaning more toward the new lamb, since I had also started it on the same day as the carrots. I'm hoping it's just taking a few days to get out of her system.

[lil_miss_understood]

Originally Posted by changingseasons

The diaper rash has been there for 2 months, since DD got her homeopathic remedy. I figured it was just the normal flaring from the remedy, but it didn't go away when the other symptoms did. It did get better when I stopped using cane sugar, but I just can't get it to completely go away. She's in panties all day (diaper at night), I'm using nystatin ointment twice a day... it just won't go away!! It's driving me crazy.

The sleep... I don't know. It could be the carrots. But I'm leaning more toward the new lamb, since I had also started it on the same day as the carrots. I'm hoping it's just taking a few days to get out of her system.

Have you mentioned the rash to her CH?

[Chinese Pistache]

Originally Posted by changingseasons

The diaper rash has been there for 2 months, since DD got her homeopathic remedy. I figured it was just the normal flaring from the remedy, but it didn't go away when the other symptoms did. It did get better when I stopped using cane sugar, but I just can't get it to completely go away. She's in panties all day (diaper at night), I'm using nystatin ointment twice a day... it just won't go away!! It's driving me crazy.

The sleep... I don't know. It could be the carrots. But I'm leaning more toward the new lamb, since I had also started it on the same day as the carrots. I'm hoping it's just taking a few days to get out of her system.

What kind of rash is it? Where is it? What's the texture? Dd has had a few different kinds related to her allergies, not yeast.

[Ruthla]

Originally Posted by WildIris

I'm pretty sure chlorine bleach does have corn in it. We've had discussions about this on the Avoiding Corn forum and everyone there reacts to things with chlorine bleach, as well as to pools, hot tubs (many people, myself included, can't even go into an indoor pool area because of the bleachy/corny fumes) and things like tea in tea bags, because the bags are bleached. Some people are more sensitive than others, of course, but the general consensus is that chlorine bleach does have corn-derived ingredients in it somehow.

Wow- chlorine bleach is connected to corn?

I get VERY sick when I'm around chlorine- even being at the park in the summer, maybe 100 yards away from the pool, I felt sick when the wind changed direction and the chlorine air started blowing towards me.

Could this be a sign that corn is one of my problems? Should I start avoiding all corn products?

If so, I'm going to have to do a ton of research about what names corn can hide under- I'm sure it's in a lot of gluten-free items.

[LauraLoo]

Originally Posted by changingseasons

I just wanted to let you guys know that although DD's sleep is still crappy, the bubbles on her chin are gone... so they were definitely NOT from the carrots.

Okay -- I'm not an expert here, but I'm going to throw something out for consideration based on my personal experience. After having very young children that constantly woke up in the night as babies (as all babies do!), I found myself unable to consistently sleep through the night for a long time. I would naturally wake up 2 or 3 times each night - wide awake. After awhile, my body readjusted. I don't think you said in your op, but was she uncomfortable when she woke up, or was she just waking up and hungry? Do you think it's a possibility that her wake/sleep schedule is kind of messed up due to all the previous issues and that she just needs some time to adjust to a more normal night's sleep? I don't read every thread in this forum, so I may be missing some key information.

[changingseasons]

Originally Posted by JacquelineR

Have you mentioned the rash to her CH?

Yeah... that's also her ped. I mentioned it first to the ND in the office a month ago, and said that I couldn't get it to go away. She said, "oh, that's looks pretty good." I'm like- I know, it doesn't look that bad (at the moment, it flares off and on), but it's been there for 6 weeks and I can't get rid of it! Then I told her ped last week... that it's been like 2 months now. She looked and said it looked like yeast, and that she wasn't surprised because she figured there was probably a yeast component to this allergy stuff... I told her that I had tried using nystatin ointment and it did nothing (a while back; I'm using it now and it's helping a tiny bit. I think.) And she said that I might have to go for a stronger, OTC yeast cream. Which I'm not really comfortable with, for a couple reasons- 1) stronger medicines (on DD) make me nervous, especially since there are bound to be other ingredients in them, and 2) I don't want to keep supressing symptoms, because that's what you're NOT supposed to do after you get a homeopathic remedy.

Ugh. I really like this ped. It took us a loooooong time to find one that actually supports my decisions and stuff. And I was really happy that she's a homeopath too. But a lot of what she says, PB says different (and my hoemopath too), and I get the feeling she's kind of a MD first, and then a homeopath second. Like she didn't even mention homeopathy until I specifically asked if we could try it for DD's allergies.

Anyway... the point of that long story was that I don't think she's the best resource for me at the moment. So I'm really trying to figure out WHY the diaper rash is there myself. Taking sugar out really helped a lot, so I'm hoping that it will keep improving and go away soon. Please please please please please....

Originally Posted by Chinese Pistache

What kind of rash is it? Where is it? What's the texture? Dd has had a few different kinds related to her allergies, not yeast.

It's a bumpy, pin-prick rash. It's worst on her labia, but it's also in her leg cracks a little, and on her butt (but no so much in the crease, more on the cheeks.) And it's VERY itchy.

She gets this rash every time she reacts to a food, but never this bad... and it always goes away as soon as I stop the food. This one started with the homepathic remedy, and just hasn't gone away since.

Originally Posted by Ruthla

If so, I'm going to have to do a ton of research about what names corn can hide under- I'm sure it's in a lot of gluten-free items.

Here ya go - http://www.cornallergens.com/list/co...ergen-list.php. Be prepared, it's a BIG list.

[changingseasons]

Originally Posted by LauraLoo

Okay -- I'm not an expert here, but I'm going to throw something out for consideration based on my personal experience. After having very young children that constantly woke up in the night as babies (as all babies do!), I found myself unable to consistently sleep through the night for a long time. I would naturally wake up 2 or 3 times each night - wide awake. After awhile, my body readjusted. I don't think you said in your op, but was she uncomfortable when she woke up, or was she just waking up and hungry? Do you think it's a possibility that her wake/sleep schedule is kind of messed up due to all the previous issues and that she just needs some time to adjust to a more normal night's sleep? I don't read every thread in this forum, so I may be missing some key information.

No, she's waking up crying, and tossing and turning. Sometimes she gets a little gas out, but it hasn't been too bad this week. And before a few days ago, her sleep was much better. She's also waking up scratching her legs (trying to get the diaper rash), so that very well could be part of it. She was scratching at it for like 20 minutes this morning around 4am.