Need a non biased link that presents both sides - UPDATE added a handout, care to read it? - Page 2

[A&A]

Originally Posted by glongley

Ask them the question: "Have your considered NOT circumcising?"

That's kind of awkward. How about "Have you considered leaving your son intact?"

[jenP]

I would mention that the foreskin is fused to the glans

Like most of my generation, I grew up thinking a circumcised penis was just what a penis looked like. Like most people, I thought the foreskin was just some little flap of useless skin that was quickly "snipped" away, causing little pain and doing no harm. So when I read about how the foreskin is completely fused to the glans, and that the first thing they do in a circ is to grab the end of the foreskin with a hemostat and hold it out so they can stick a blunt instrument in and rip apart all of the connective tissue holding the foreskin to the glans.. and only then can they actually cut off the foreskin... well, that one piece of information is what really caught my attention and made me realize how painful circ really is, and made me look into it more. So in your section about how a circ is done, I would definitely go into more hideous detail, about how the crushing of the connections is akin to sticking a tweezer under your fingernail and prying it off. Most people, if they have any dim inkling of what a foreskin is like at all, picture it as it would be on a grown man, easily able to move around and therefore relatively easy to cut off. They have no idea that in the newborn it is completely fused together.

It is so great that you are doing this! People just keep circing out of ignorance (of course we are ignorant about intact penises, our whole generation was altered so how could we possibly understand) and the solution to ignorance is education, education, education!

Jen

[elephantine]

Originally Posted by CanidFL

Myth: My son will get more urinary tract infections
Fact:Most studies show that uncircumcised male infants have about a 10 fold increase in UTIs, but overall risk of an intact male getting a UTI is relatively low, only about 1%.

This is good, I thought you might want to add that the UTI risk for baby girls is around 3%, just to keep it in perspective. So a normal baby girl would have 3X the risk as a normal intact boy...

also did you mention meatal stenosis? There are some horrrifying pics of it out there... it only happens in circ'd babies where their urethral opening closes off and painful surgery is required to open it back up. It is not that uncommon either though I don't have the percentage stats.

[Smokering]

That's great! I might change a few things:

Under 'Is Circumcision Painful?', you could mention how LLL is against the practice because the pain of circumcision can interfere with establishing a breastfeeding relationship.

I would leave out the bit about religious circ entirely; if the parents' religion requires it they'll know about it, and it's irrelevant for everyone else (and possibly gives an 'it's not that bad' note to finish on, which isn't what we want!).

Ditto to PPs about comparing the UTI rate in girls to intact boys, and mentioning that the foreskin adheres to the glans like a fingernail.

I'd make it even clearer that the foreskin should NOT be retracted in infants. Bold, capitalise and underline that if you have to! A lot of ignorant peds and nurses will do it or advise it; the parents should know that it isn't a good thing.

"All circumcised males lose some or most of the sensitivity in their glans and all of the sensitivity in their foreskin." True, but likely to alienate or be considered extreme. Maybe you could phrase it along the lines of: "Many men circumcised in adulthood have noticed a gradual but significant loss of sensitivity in the glans due to keratinisation. One study confirmed that the circumcised glans is less sensitive to fine-touch pressure than the glans of the intact penis. Along with the loss of specialised nerve endings in the foreskin, this represents a considerable loss in sexual sensitivity".

I'd also mention that UTIs are easily treatable.

[rhiandmoi]

Another thing that I thought of as far as not mentioning sexual sensation, not everyone wants to think about the sexual experience of their infant son.

[thixle]

nak

Originally Posted by CanidFL

Myth:The uncircumcised penis is too hard to take care of and keep clean
Fact: The intact penis is easy to take care of. In fact, until the foreskin begins to retract, no special care is required. Once the foreskin does retract on his own, the child is old enough to retract the foreskin, clean the head of the penis with soap and water, rinse, and then pull the foreskin back over the head of the penis.

eh, I'd replace the bolded part with "he can clean the head of his penis by retracting his foreskin, rinsing with warm water, and replacing his foreskin back over the head of the penis (Retract, Rinse, Replace). No soap is required."

cause using soap can cause yeast infection and irritation, just like in girls. Actually, it is more akin to douching-- and because only the boy should be retracting himself. It also helps to normalize the actual age of retraction, which is much older than most peds say (usually they say by age 2, it's more like "around puberty" for most boys)-- in essence, the boy will be old enough to clean himself.

In fact, until the foreskin begins to retract, no special care is required.

add "Just wipe like a finger." Maybe also add "Soaking baths, with no bubble bath, will take care of any "blow out" diapers." because, after all, this is about infant care as well.

[beru]

I concur that you have to mention meatal stenosis. It is hardly ever mentioned in pro-circ and "neutral" pieces on circumcision yet it is a very very common side-effect. Here is a reference
http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/1016016-overview

[smeep]

The problem is to be truthful it's automatically biased. "Unbiased" always ends up missing important facts.

[Quirky]

Originally Posted by Smokering

That's great! I might change a few things:

Under 'Is Circumcision Painful?', you could mention how LLL is against the practice because the pain of circumcision can interfere with establishing a breastfeeding relationship.

Sadly, LLL refuses to take a stand and refuses to even educate parents on the established fact that circing can and often does interfere with breastfeeding. They're total wimps on this issue IMO and it's a huge sore spot for me. :

[Yulia_R]

Originally Posted by Quirky

Sadly, LLL refuses to take a stand and refuses to even educate parents on the established fact that circing can and often does interfere with breastfeeding. They're total wimps on this issue IMO and it's a huge sore spot for me. :

true. and neither does API (what a shame, IMO)

[CanidFL]

Thanks again ladies. I removed the part about sexual sensitivity and relgious beleifs. I have included these updates. Do they sound too rough? I am not sure about the tweezers comment.....

Is circumcision painful?
Yes. At birth, the foreskin is attached to the head of the penis. The insertion of the clamp breaks the bond and is comparable to sticking tweezers under your fingernail and removing it. Many babies are circumcised without anesthesia so if you decide to have your baby circumcised, make sure to check with your doctor about his policies on anesthesia. The anesthesia procedure itself is painful to a baby as the needle must be inserted into the penis and unfortunately sometimes the anesthesia is inadequate. Babies are not given pain medication while the wound is healing which could take 7-10 days.

What are the risks of circumcision?
The risks include excessive bleeding, infection, complications from anesthesia, surgical mistakes such as loss of glans, extensive scarring, skin tags and bridges, tearing and bleeding at the scar site, curvature of the penis, tight or painful erections, meatal stenosis, and impotence. Some of these complications can be fatal.


Myth:The uncircumcised penis is too hard to take care of and keep clean
Fact: The intact penis is easy to take care of. In fact, until the foreskin begins to retract, no special care is required, just wipe like a finger during diaper changes. No one should ever retract an infant’s foreskin. Once the foreskin does retract on its own, the child is old enough to retract, clean the head of the penis with water, and then pull the foreskin back over the head of the penis.


Myth: My son will get more urinary tract infections
Fact:Most studies show that uncircumcised male infants have about a 10 fold increase in UTIs, but overall risk of an intact male getting a UTI is relatively low, only about 1%. In comparison, the risk of UTI’s for female infants is 3%.

[Yulia_R]

As I mention before, I would definitely mention the history of circ in North America as it is quite shocking and eyes opening.

Circumcision started in North America in the Puritan 1870s as a cure for masturbation. Masturbation was considered to be evil and sinful and was blamed for all sort of illnesses including blindness, paralysis and mental retardation. http://www.noharmm.org/docswords.htm

[CanidFL]

I did see your comment before and you are right that the history is shocking but I am just not sure if it’s something I want to include on this handout. I was thinking it will be more of a thing I will verbally talk about while going over the handout KWIM? I am very limited on space and had to cut out other things I wanted to include I don’t want it over 2 pages because then it becomes too long and parents won’t read it. Thank you for the link though. I did bookmark it.

[nettieferg]

Low Pain Thresh - Not My Guy

Originally Posted by Ophelia

study was done that showed that circ'd boys have a lower threshold for pain than intact ones (the vaccination study).

this
http://www.cirp.org/library/pain/taddio2/

and this
http://www.cnn.com/HEALTH/9712/23/ci...on.anesthetic/

Just my 2 cents -

My little guy was circ'd before I had any idea about all the info AGAINST circing --- and he is as rowdy as they come -- seriously, he is one tough kid -- ie. he broke his ankle a year ago messing around on the playground slide, and never even flinched when they set it -- would have put ME in tears . . . I often *wish* he had a lower threshold, since it might lead him to be a bit more cautious in his activities!!!

(NOT defending circing -- just my personal exp.)

[CellarDoor]

If you add a blurb about US circ history, you can also mention the VERY LOW circ rates in the UK, Aus, NZ, other European countries, etc. Might help to normalize the idea of keeping a boy intact.

You could add to page one under heading: "If circ has so many drawbacks, why is it so common?"