Could use help, advice, reassurance - Page 2

[schatz]

I know you've gotten lots of replies but I had to jump in as I pump at work.

lots of great advice already, I can't add much more other than to tag onto the possibility that your dc might become a reverse cycler like mine. My pump output has never gone up from about 10-12 oz during a work day and that has been fine for my dd ever since she was 4 months old. We delayed solids until 9 months so I know she wasn't filling up on those. It wasn't until I had to go out of town for a week when she was 9 months old that I found out just how much milk she was taking in overnight.

Just keep on pumping and it will work out - glad to see it already is getting better.

Congrats!

[xerxes]

sorry it has taken me so long to respond to all of the great advice! I am not good with computers really and mine was slow as heck last night and I just got frustrated and quit! Today, I ventured out of the house for about 1 1/2 hours...I never seem to have much fun leaving dd at home! I miss her way too much!
I do not think I am taking enough fenugreek because in my opinion I do not smell like curry or maple syrup...I guess I will up my dosage to 4 three times a day? It appears to me that my breasts are fuller, however, it may just be wishful thinking! I am able to pump between 1/2 to 1 ounce per pump session now. Still less than I want to be able to pump, but anything is great for me. I also put a bottle under my opposite breast as she fed and was able to collect 3/4 ounce. Go me!

[xerxes]

Hilary...you mentioned that you are able to get the hind milk out. How do you know that there is hind milk mixed in there? Does it seperate or look different? Also, you talked about dd should be eating about 3 1/2 ounces per meal, otherwise she will get a belly ache/colic. Well, my dd eats and sleeps really well in the morning with very little fussing, but around 1pm if she isn't constantly on my breast she will cry hesterically. We cannot even put her down to sleep...she will doze off while eating and then if we put her down she cries really hard again. This continues until about 8-9pm when I finally resign myself to bed just so she will calm down and sleep. I hate it when she cries so hard... she will actually spit up after her crying spell! It is awful, so I just put her right to my breast and let her eat! This calms her down right away, but I wonder if she is getting a belly ache from eating almost non-stop for about 6 hours. Should I not be letting her eat at the breast all afternoon/evening? And if not, how do you handle the uncontrollable crying?

[chellemarie]

xerxes...congratulations on your new wee one.

When I pump, one bottle will generally be more opaque, whiter...like whole milk. The other will be a bit thinner, like the first bottle mixed with water or like skim milk. Sometimes it will have a blue or greenish cast, too. The thicker, whiter stuff is hindmilk.

RE: baby's marathon nursing sessions. My son did this from about 4pm til 10pm. He was always fussiest around 6:30 (about the time of his birth). The marathon nursing sessions stopped about the time he turned 2.5-3 months.

[chellemarie]

I wanted to add...if baby falls asleep but then wakes when you put her down, don't put her down. Do you have a sling or a pouch you could tote her around in?

[captain optimism]

Originally posted by Hilary

You don't want to be an over-producing freisan cow like me.
If you are, then over-feeding is a very common problem. That is why I had to restrict every feed while feeding another baby, to a total of six minutes.
Because that's the time it took for my hose-type production to fill his tummy....

Wait, isn't your baby about a month old? There is a growth spurt around week three or four. Just let her eat, don't worry about it. She'll slack off for a bit--and then do it again at six weeks! She's trying to increase your milk production for when she gets bigger, so don't limit her time at the breast. At your baby's age, you can leave her on the breast and do other stuff. Like Chelle said, use the sling. Or nurse and surf the net. Or read a book.

Fortunately or unfortunately, most of us aren't like Hilary! I never get a drippy boob on the non-nursing side when I'm nursing anymore. My baby always ate until he was done, and never got colic. But it is true that for most feedings, he eats between 3 and 4 oz. and this is still true at 10 months. Every so often he would want to eat a lot more, and my dh would just feed him more.

My milk comes in according to how hard the baby sucks. Another reason why I didn't need galactalogues when I was at home most of the time, but started to need them when I was at work more. When I was at work part time and home part time, I used to get 16 oz. in two double pumping sessions! Easily! As soon as I went back to full time, that stopped happening. And that's why I went over to herbs.

I wish I had known about the B vitamin thing months ago, though.

Seemingly T Maybe you also need some good analytic detective novels to read, while feeding, to relax you and given you something to analyse. A good whodunnit, that applies detective skills is a wonderful relaxer for intellectual people. Which I think you are....

Yes! When my baby was small, I did this! I re-read the entire Patrick O'Brian Aubrey-Maturin series (now known as Master and Commander because of the movie!) At some point my child developed a book fetish and I couldn't do that anymore. But I don't need to do anything special to relax anymore, so that's okay. It's nice just to be with my baby, who takes little breaks to smile at me.

At work I come to MDC while I'm pumping. Or I just do my work.

[xerxes]

Thanks everyone for all the great advice!! I am feeling much more confident in the things I am doing for dd! I have been around/babysat plenty of babies, but it is really different when it is your own! I tend to worry about so much! I am in the process of looking for a sling...I looked on the internet to see which ones are the best. I will hopefully order one by the end of the week...it seems like the best thing for us! I had no idea that dd could actually bf in the sling.

[Quirky]

Colic/evening fussiness is also linked to developmental immaturity (aka "the fourth trimester"), the fact that human babies are born so prematurely, biologically speaking, so that their heads can fit through our pelvises. Check out Dr Harvey Karp's book (and video) The Happiest Baby on the Block, for his recipe for calming colicky babies:

Swaddling
Shhhhing (loud white noise)
Side lying
Swinging/swaying
Sucking

These closely replicate the conditions in the womb and make baby's brain calm down. Give it a shot - it really worked for us!

[pumpkinhead]

First of all, Congratulations on your baby girl Xerxes!

You've gotten tons of great advice on this thread and, tho you probably don't really need it, I'm gonna add my two cents .

I had absolute DISMAL luck with my PIS. Hated the thing! I got far more milk from the Avent Isis manual pump then I ever did from the electric ones (even the hospital grade ones). That said, the Avent bottles are made out of 'no no' plastic and so I NEVER stored the milk in them. I found the Avent to be easier on my nipples as well and more comfortable to use. Granted, a manual pump *is* more work, but the fact that I could regulate the strength of the suction and the speed myself, personally helped me. Just another idea to throw in there .

I also wanted to add that my ds had a 'fussy time' at night. It wasn't 'colic' but it started when he was about 2 weeks old and lasted until he was 6 or 8 weeks old. It'd start in the evening (7 or 8) and end around midnight. I just had to be in constant motion with him and/or he want to be permanently attached to the boob or he'd have a fit. One thing that he would do was nurse for 5 min then pull off and cry. He'd do this ENDLESSLY! I finally figured out that he was 'comfort nursing' (maybe from overstimulation or gas) and annoyed when he'd trigger my letdown. Poor kid just wanted to suck. He'd get more milk, and I daresay he was making his poor little tummy even more uncomfortable.(I like Hilary, was a bit of a cow, with overactive let down issues to boot ). When 'dummie mummy' finally figured this out (at around 4 or 5 weeks)and gave him a pacifier (ahh the dreaded 'p' word) we were all much happier people. As ds was a champion nurser and gaining lots of weight, this didn't hinder milk supply or cause nipple confusion. That said, every babe is different. You'll figure out what works for yours Mama s. Oh, have you tried a swing? Not that I minded holding and walking with/rocking ds, but a girl's gotta pee sometime right? :LOL This also did wonders for ds during his fussy time. Some babes hate 'em tho, so it's best to borrow one or try one out in the store first before making the investment. I second (or third?) the reccomendation for a sling, esp if your wee one is a snuggler and likes to be swaddled.

It's not unusual for a newborn to have a fussy time and this doesn't last forever! IT sounds like you're already in tune with your daughter and have a good handle on her wants and needs!

Good luck to you Mama!

[pumpkinhead]

P.S. That stuff that Jane wrote about the shushing and swaddling and sucking REALLY does work! Just keep in mind that you have to 'shhhhhhh' quite loudly right next to babe's ear or she won't be able to hear you over her own crying. The womb is a REALLY noisy place. The sound of your heart beat and the blood rushing though your veins is actually very like that of a vaccum cleaner or a hair dryer. (running both of these does wonders for a fussy babe as well BTW). All this 'shhhhhhh, the baby is sleeping' stuff is a foriegn concept for the poor little dears! They're used to NOISE!

[mom2tig99Nroo03]

have only skimmed through this thread, so forgive if its been mentioned, some moms simply donmt respond well to pumping, but can hand express lots of milk! for some reason, the skin-on-skin does better for them than plastic-on-skin hth.

[onegr8mom03]

then how do you hand express well? I hurt myself when i even try and only get a few squirts which go everywhere!!


thanks

[mom2tig99Nroo03]

http://www.medela.com/NewFiles/manualexpres.html

[xerxes]

Sorry I haven't responded in awhile...trying to get the house in order for family visiting on Monday! Anyway, Hilary...where you live sounds like a dream!!! I wish we had places half a nice as you to walk around! We live in a nice neighborhood with very little traffic and a nice view of "little" mountains (nothing like what you are used to) , but definately no cows or pastures. I would love that! Plus...it is freezing cold and snowing where we live right now!

I have had better success pumping...I am trying out different sizes of flanges. They seem to be more comfortable, so I am conducting an experiment to see which I like best...thanks for the advice Jane!

As far as the fussiness goes...I do attribute it alot to gas. My dd seems to want to nurse, but she will unlatch herself very frequently in an awful way by pulling my nipple like it is taffy and wow does it ever hurt...but than she will pass gas! My nipples are sooooooooooo sore! Does the soreness ever go away? It is only really sore when she latches on and than it subsides during the nursing (unless she is just using me to comfort nurse and pulling like taffy...than it hurts the whole time.) I do not burp her during the night because we both fall asleep and I do not wake up until she wakes me to eat again. Is this a bad idea?

[DaryLLL]

xerxes, if your nipples are sore at this point, 4 weeks, or so? are you sure her latch is good? I forget if you said you saw a IBCLC or LLL Leader.

It could be thrush if you are sore this far along. She may be pulling and stretching if her mouth is sore, perhaps, too. Any redness, flakiness on your nipples?

http://www.kellymom.com/bf/concerns/...es.html#basics

Signs and Symptoms of thrush

In mother:

intense nipple or breast pain that occurs from birth, lasts throughout the feeding, or is not improved with better latch-on and positioning
sudden onset of nipple pain after a period of pain-free nursing
cracked nipples
nipples that are itchy and/or burning and that may appear pink or red, shiny, or flaky and/or have a rash and tiny blisters; nipples may also appear normal
shooting pains in the breast during or after a feeding if the yeast has invaded the milk ducts
nipple or breast pain with correct use of an automatic electric breastpump
a vaginal yeast infection

In baby:


diaper rash that does not respond to typical rash ointments (see this picture for one representation of a yeast diaper rash)
creamy white patches that cannot be wiped off on the inside of the mouth, along the inside of the gums, inside of the cheeks, roof of mouth, throat, or tongue
a shiny or "mother of pearl" look on the inside of the mouth
breast refusal, pulling off breast, or a reluctance to nurse due to mouth soreness
repeated clicking during nursing
excessive gassiness due to the yeast's invasion of the gut

[pumpkinhead]

xerxes,

Have you been using any sort of Lanolin cream? Lansinoh or purlan are great! I owe my nursing relationship to lansinoh . If you have or suspect yeast, it's a bad idea and a good 'all purpose nipple cream, like Dr. Jack Newmans, is better (you need to get a pharmacist to make it up for you whereas Lansinoh can be bought OTC).

As for the burping thing...I think it's overrated really. The back patting didn't really seem to help my ds burp at all. I stopped interrupting feedings to do this early on, and he'd seem to burp immediately after unlatching or not at all until later, spontaneously. The back patting didn't really seem to make much of a difference. I'm sure it's great for some babes, but not mine. Bottom line, trust your instincts! They're usually right! Lifting ds up and down in a vertical movement (slowky and gently) seemed the best way to help my own ds burp.

Oh, and I had pain during ds's initial latch for about 5 weeks. It was fine once he was latched, but the process of getting him latched would make my toes curl!

[Quirky]

Just FYI, Yakult is the same thing as Dannon's Actimel here in the US. It's a tasty yogurt-like drink in a cute little bottle. DS wrestles mine away from me now so he drinks one and I drink one. I eat kefir on my oatmeal or cereal instead of milk - Helios makes a nice organic brand. I get unsweetened even though the sweetened flavored ones are very tasty - they're also full of sugar.

I gotta save my sugar allowance for the xmas cookies I'm scarfing down. Diet? What diet?

[xerxes]

Thanks for the advice on considering yeast. I will keep my eye out for other symptoms. So far, the only symptom I have is sore nipples. Pumpkinhead, I understand the "toe curling" feeling...it is awful!

I will be going back to work in 3 to 5 weeks and I was wondering about bottlefeeding. I am pumping about 2 to 4 ounces a day and freezing it. All of the sources I have read state that we should use the fresh milk that I pump the day before for the next day. Why not just use the frozen milk to be sure it doesn't go bad and freeze the fresh milk?

[DaryLLL]

Because freezing your milk kills of some of its magical powers.

Date the milk you are freezing. You can use it during growth spurts or if/when your supply goes down in your crazy days of WOH. It is good for 6 mos in a freezer attached to the fridge, 12 mos in a deep freeze.

Just to be sure, refrigerate some of your milk now. Next day, smell it. If it smells off or cheesy, you may have an excess of lipase. This starts to predigest your milk's fat. It can make it smell and taste different. Some babies dont mind it, some do. If your baby minds it, you will need to scald your milk before freezing it.

Go get the book Nursing Mother Working Mother for tons of tips on juggling bfing, working, day care and everything else.

[pumpkinhead]

xerxes,

I am quite a fair skinned woman and have been, *ahem* 'blessed' with rather small, short nipples. Jacob's latch was just fine, but I did suffer with nipple discomfort for a bit longer than one might expect. When you think about it, your nipples are getting a workout they're really not used to so it's natural to expect some initial discomfort. I mean, they're supposed to stretch to the back of babe's mouth right? Mine *were* the size of a pencil eraser for cryin' out loud (I know, 'discomfort' is a decievingly mild word )

After grilling a kindly nurse on nipple pain for a full 5 minutes, she looked at me and said "Dear, unless you have 'Sears Catalogue' nipples, they do tend to be a mite tender for a bit" . She was a sweetie! All the others kept drilling : There should be ABSOLUTELY no pain if the latch is good and so I thought there was something dreadfully wrong when I continued to be tender. (that said, you should not have cracked and bleeding nipples!!)

As I said, Lansinoh saved me big time! I noticed a difference w/ in a day. It's tasteless, odourless and safe for your babe to injest (i.e. you don't need to wipe it off before a feeding and your skin really absorbs it, so there isn't much left for them to get anyway).

Also, as I said earlier, if you suspect yeast, the Lanolin cream can be detrimental as yeast love it, but I don't think it would hurt to give it a try. You'll know right away if it makes things worse, and if it helps, then you probably don't have to worry about the yeasty beasties!!

I'm rootin' for ya Mama! It really does get better and then you'll wonder why EVERYONE doen't breast feed cuz it's so dang easy!