Does my almost 4 year old have a problem?

[latinmama]

Dear ones,
I've never posted on this board, but I've been a silent visitor and benefitted from the wonderful advise I've found here through the years. I'm no new mama; I have 4 children, ages 8, 6, almost 4, and 2.
My almost 4 year old is a very high maintenance kid. He was born at home, and is not vaccinated. From the get go though, he's always been very emotional. He was a colicky baby, but he reached the baby milestones on schedule, and became a very loving and tender kid, even though he remained a very emotional little kid. Well, he had severe sensitivities (allergies) to foods, food additives, colorings, chemicals; in short, to anything artificial, even disposable diapers. He was breastfed until he was 19 months. Because of his allergies, he had very bad eczema and behavioral issues; his crying was unbearable.
Our family doctor is awesome; after parading through countless drs, she was the only one to suggest he had food allergies, and she has prescribed herbs and homeopathics to treat his symptoms, and we also did NAET (Nambudripad ,sp?, Allergy Elimination Treatment) and it really worked because his skin is now clear and smooth as it has never been before.
NOw, his behavioral issues are back: he hits me, he throws major tantrums, he breaks things and becomes very violent.
I guess I just want to know if anyone else has had issues like these with 4 year olds. My two older children didn't go through a phase like this, so I feel I'm on new territory here. I've sometimes wondered if he has ADD or something like that. I try to be very patient with him, but all the gentle parenting techniques I know of haven't worked, of course, neither have yelling and I regret to confess spanking. I've never done it hard; a last recourse when he's so out of control he starts breaking things and hitting his siblings. But I hate doing it because even if I don't swat his bottom, when he does something he knows is out of line he starts saying, "don't hit me!" even when I'm not going to do it.
I don't know what else to do. I love this little guy so much, I cry for him because I know he loves me and wants to behave well, but it seems to be out of his power to stop himself.
All your comments and suggestions are welcome. Thanks for reading this long post!

[VroomieMama]

Originally Posted by latinmama

Dear ones,
I've never posted on this board, but I've been a silent visitor and benefitted from the wonderful advise I've found here through the years. I'm no new mama; I have 4 children, ages 8, 6, almost 4, and 2.
My almost 4 year old is a very high maintenance kid. He was born at home, and is not vaccinated. From the get go though, he's always been very emotional. He was a colicky baby, but he reached the baby milestones on schedule, and became a very loving and tender kid, even though he remained a very emotional little kid. Well, he had severe sensitivities (allergies) to foods, food additives, colorings, chemicals; in short, to anything artificial, even disposable diapers. He was breastfed until he was 19 months. Because of his allergies, he had very bad eczema and behavioral issues; his crying was unbearable.
Our family doctor is awesome; after parading through countless drs, she was the only one to suggest he had food allergies, and she has prescribed herbs and homeopathics to treat his symptoms, and we also did NAET (Nambudripad ,sp?, Allergy Elimination Treatment) and it really worked because his skin is now clear and smooth as it has never been before.
NOw, his behavioral issues are back: he hits me, he throws major tantrums, he breaks things and becomes very violent.
I guess I just want to know if anyone else has had issues like these with 4 year olds. My two older children didn't go through a phase like this, so I feel I'm on new territory here. I've sometimes wondered if he has ADD or something like that. I try to be very patient with him, but all the gentle parenting techniques I know of haven't worked, of course, neither have yelling and I regret to confess spanking. I've never done it hard; a last recourse when he's so out of control he starts breaking things and hitting his siblings. But I hate doing it because even if I don't swat his bottom, when he does something he knows is out of line he starts saying, "don't hit me!" even when I'm not going to do it.
I don't know what else to do. I love this little guy so much, I cry for him because I know he loves me and wants to behave well, but it seems to be out of his power to stop himself.
All your comments and suggestions are welcome. Thanks for reading this long post!

I don't know what feedback of tips I could give you but I can imagine how difficult it can be. I have gone through this with my daughter and I'm still working on my weakness (yelling/punishing/disrespecting) and I've started the gentle disclipine approach for a few weeks.. I have noticed improvements and some areas are still difficult. I'm basically babbling but I just wanted to offer some motherly hugs. I am sure someone after my post will give you better tips on what to do.

[yarngoddess]

My second child is very similar to your DS. She isn't quite as...agressive as your son, however she has gone through a very rough patch herself.

Jilly is like a 12yr old preteen. Moody, crabby, disrespectfull, won't eat, won't play, want's to be alone, fights with everyone, screams, won't speak, won't talk about what she's feeling and doing (she has been talking in full sentances since 11mo.- she loves to talk ) and she will scream NO with her mouth closed. UHHHUNHHHH- over and over and over and over. She also is desperate for SLEEP, yet has nightmares and HAS to sleep in our room or she won't sleep at all.

Getting to my point
I started her on a very, VERY small ammount of Melatonin. I'm desperate for something to work and to get a solid night of sleep--even my "babies" sleep through the night, but Jilly doesn't. She had Melatonin for 4 nights. She was like a different kid on the morning of the 1st tablet. She was sweet, kind, funny, helpfull, respectfull, loving, generous and wanted to eat, talk, play! On the other days she was also-on her own- taking naps in the afternoon. Yesterday I didn't give her any melatonin and she went back to the screaming and fighting and she woke up in the middle of the night in a night terror (best way I can describe them- it's HORRIBLE)

I don't know if that's maybe part of your DS's issues- not enough GOOD, DEEP sleep. It's really hard, but I think that you are on the right tract. You said you have a great ped- why don't you go see this doc and ask questions about what to do? Where to start? Rule out some kind of infection- 'cause that's the first thing that happens to my kids is they get mean when they get sick.

I think you are right for NOT spanking this kind of child (well, anychild) and I know how hard it is sometimes, especially if YOU were spanked as a child. It's never easy to break the mold and consciously make a change. It's hard, but you searching for alternative ways to help your child is a step in the right direction. I applaud you!

HUGS too! It's got to be so very hard for you and your family to deal with this. Sending you healing, learning, loving, and patience vibes! Hang in there momma!

[latinmama]

Thanks

You guys, thanks so much for your advise and understanding! It means a lot to have someone at least offer words of comfort. And yanrgoddess, he does need a good night of deep sleep. He wakes up every night and comes to my bed; my own baby sleeps better than he does too. About his having an infection, last night after I posted I talked to my mom, and she pointed out that his behavior becomes very extreme when he gets sick; he has had a cold for a few days now.
So, thanks. I'll try our doctor and see if the Melatonin works.
Thanks a million!!!!!!

[madskye]

DD is 4 in April, and last week she was having these terrible tantrums where she would scream repeatedly in my face and try to hit for a really long time. I want to say 10-20 minutes of screaming. It is just not like her. And she has just been in a crabby mood the rest of the week too--not much joy.

I tried to take a detached look at what was happening and came up with 4 things.

1--earlier bedtime/more sleep. From 8:30 down to 7 or 7:30.
2--I've been using the tv as a crutch. So, we decided to turn off the tv for a week.
3--Sugar. She asked for, and I complied, a box of popsicles at the supermarket a few weeks ago. I didn't think it was that big of a deal--who doesn't love popsicles? But it seems like there is definitely a popsicle-tantrum connection. Could be the sugar, could be the food dyes?
4. More focused attention. I am trying to really pay attention to her, and not multi-task so much. She's not a baby anymore, but she's still important! I had gotten a bad habit of not really listening to her or trying to get too much done when we are together.

We turned the tv off on Friday, and I have to say, her personality has gotten sweeter and happier each day. I don't know if it's all coincidental or not, or if I had just let her little world get out of whack--but things seem to be righting themselves.

Are there some small tweaks you could make in your daily routine that might pay off? It sounds like you are better about the daily diet then I have been!

[LynnS6]

In addition to diet (and I'd DEFINITELY spend some time looking at his diet given his previous history - it's hard to behave well when your body isn't feeling well), is he getting enough large motor time? He may be a kid who needs an hour or more of OUTSIDE, running around, really big, intense motor activity.

Since you've resorted to spanking and realize that it's not helping, what if you (1) vow not to do that again and (2) try something different? Is there someplace safe that you can put him for a 'time out' until he calms down? I'd like to call this a 'time in' where he's focusing on pulling himself together, but honestly, at least at first, it's going to look/feel a lot like punishment. I'd reserve this for times when he's really out of control and you're afraid someone/something is going to get hurt.

I'd also do some reading -- several books I'd recommend:

1. Kids, Parents & Power Struggles by Mary Sheedy Kurcinka - this is one of my favorite books, and it does talk about power struggles with 4 year olds. (I've got a highly "dramatic" 4 1/2 year old who's straining my patience right now.)
2. The Challenging Child by Stanley Greenspan (it's got a chapter on the Active/Aggressive Child)
3. The Explosive Child

Other possibilities
- Sensational Kids - since he had such severe allergies (and probably pain associated with it?), it's possible that he's got some sort of sensory processing issues going on and is acting out in defense (or "The Out of Sync Child")
-The Highly Sensitive Child -- he certainly fits the physical profile here.

[jeliphish]

Originally Posted by latinmama

Dear ones,
I've never posted on this board, but I've been a silent visitor and benefitted from the wonderful advise I've found here through the years. I'm no new mama; I have 4 children, ages 8, 6, almost 4, and 2.
My almost 4 year old is a very high maintenance kid. He was born at home, and is not vaccinated. From the get go though, he's always been very emotional. He was a colicky baby, but he reached the baby milestones on schedule, and became a very loving and tender kid, even though he remained a very emotional little kid. Well, he had severe sensitivities (allergies) to foods, food additives, colorings, chemicals; in short, to anything artificial, even disposable diapers. He was breastfed until he was 19 months. Because of his allergies, he had very bad eczema and behavioral issues; his crying was unbearable.
Our family doctor is awesome; after parading through countless drs, she was the only one to suggest he had food allergies, and she has prescribed herbs and homeopathics to treat his symptoms, and we also did NAET (Nambudripad ,sp?, Allergy Elimination Treatment) and it really worked because his skin is now clear and smooth as it has never been before.
NOw, his behavioral issues are back: he hits me, he throws major tantrums, he breaks things and becomes very violent.
I guess I just want to know if anyone else has had issues like these with 4 year olds. My two older children didn't go through a phase like this, so I feel I'm on new territory here. I've sometimes wondered if he has ADD or something like that. I try to be very patient with him, but all the gentle parenting techniques I know of haven't worked, of course, neither have yelling and I regret to confess spanking. I've never done it hard; a last recourse when he's so out of control he starts breaking things and hitting his siblings. But I hate doing it because even if I don't swat his bottom, when he does something he knows is out of line he starts saying, "don't hit me!" even when I'm not going to do it.
I don't know what else to do. I love this little guy so much, I cry for him because I know he loves me and wants to behave well, but it seems to be out of his power to stop himself.
All your comments and suggestions are welcome. Thanks for reading this long post!

Is he in preschool? Is his behavior different around others? Does he deal with issues better or worse when he is not around home?

[latinmama]

He does go to preschool twice a week, at someone's home. There are only 6 kids in his class, and at first he cried when I left. Little by little he's gotten used to going. The teacher had to put him in time out a few times, but he seems to be OK with her. She always comments on how smart he is, but I always thought she might say that about all the kids. She's a sweetheart.
I went out of town for a weekend last month, and my in-laws came to our house to stay with the kids. My MIL commented on how well he behaved with her.
He doesn't seem to have a problem when he's with other people, that's why I hesitate about taking him to the Dr about his behavior--I don't want to have him labeled as high needs, or hyper active, or anything else if he's only a spoiled little boy (as some people have suggested to me in the past).
Oh, and at church, I teach his little class of 3-4 years old, and he gives me a really hard time there too. I've been asked to be changed to another class, but so far, I'm still there.
Thanks to all of you for the wonderful advise and book recommendations. I'll check into those books for sure.
Thanks!

[Evan&Anna's_Mom]

This sounds a bit like my son, though perhaps more extreme. So I have a couple of thoughts that you can take or leave, and a couple of questions for you to think about.

The times we've hit rough patches with the kids, I generally take a two-pronged approach. These happen simultaniously, but you can't really show that in a post. First, I run through the "basic checklist" to make sure I haven't slipped into bad habits. These things will all impact my kid's behavior:
* Enough sleep for child AND you.
* Regular healthy meals/snacks at good intervals. Especially with the history, check this.
* Adequate amounts of outside time and/or physical exercise. Especially easy to slip during winter. Maybe child would do well with sport to focus energy?
* Reasonable-for-my-family media time and choices.
* Overall good routine, good transitioning, that sort of thing.
* Enough one-on-one attention between me and child.
* Adequate self-care for myself. If I'm not doing well, then I'm not parenting well, and the kids reflect that.

Anything that stands out from that list I would work on fixing. At the same time, DH and I will decide on a plan to concentrate on the key things that are really a problem. For me, that would be physical violence. I generally tell my kids "Being mad is fine. Hurting someone because you are mad is not". In our house, being violent (or threatening to be) means being removed from other people. To me it is a logical consequence -- if you are mean, no one wants to be around you. I also very strongly feel that parents have a right to protect themselves from being hurt. During a brief time with my son was doing this sort of tantrum thing, I would have him to take a break in his room. If he couldn't/wouldn't go there on his own, I would pick him up and carry him. He was free to rejoin the family as soon as he was calm, but I would not allow him to hurt me or anyone else. I didn't care what he did in his room -- scream, cry, throw things, punch his pillow. Just not around people. Anything damaged he would eventually need to help clean up and items damaged in temper were not replaced.

Note though that at the same time I was also addressing any underlying issues. But to me, at some point a child needs to learn to control him- or herself regardless of what else is going on. And 4 seems about the time to really work on that, before the start of school where hitting someone is likely to be a real issue!

[2mama]

It sound's like you are descirbing my son! We have been following the finegold program with great success, but we still have rough days. We are currently working on his anger. We just started taking him to a psychologist as he recently had been out of control and really testing me and I was out of ideas. It has been helpful as it reminds me of all the things I already knew but some times slip up on... Things like continuity(sp?) between parents and with the child. Even though is is easier to give in to avoid conflict it is not always the best. That kids need limits and need to be nurtured, if we are not setting limits and sticking to them we are teaching them that if they act out enough that they will get their way which only perpetuates the cycle. Also that when he is in a rage that it did not happen suddenly it was built up until he could no long control himself, meaning I need to observe him more closely and help him when he is reving up, that if he has reached the breaking point that I am being reactive not proactive. Lets see what else... Watching food choices and not slipping up based on convience.. A biggy for me.. several days will be "shot" if I let him have corn.. (Who ever thought of humans eating corn anyway... I know so many people who don't handle it well.) Humm.. Oh yes and challenging him. DS is gifted and when I do not challenge him enough he gets board and makes poor choices.. Sometime it is hard for me to make cooking or cleaning or my other children wait as he "NEEDS me NOW", but I can help all of them by letting him participate, and by setting priorities... Which is key... One last thing for now as the kids just got home from swimming, is reading raising the spirited child... I know it's a lot to ask of a parent with a child in crisis mode, but it is the best book, and extremly insightful.

I'll try to post more later...

Good luck and hang in there!

[jeliphish]

Originally Posted by latinmama

He does go to preschool twice a week, at someone's home. There are only 6 kids in his class, and at first he cried when I left. Little by little he's gotten used to going. The teacher had to put him in time out a few times, but he seems to be OK with her. She always comments on how smart he is, but I always thought she might say that about all the kids. She's a sweetheart.
I went out of town for a weekend last month, and my in-laws came to our house to stay with the kids. My MIL commented on how well he behaved with her.
He doesn't seem to have a problem when he's with other people, that's why I hesitate about taking him to the Dr about his behavior--I don't want to have him labeled as high needs, or hyper active, or anything else if he's only a spoiled little boy (as some people have suggested to me in the past).
Oh, and at church, I teach his little class of 3-4 years old, and he gives me a really hard time there too. I've been asked to be changed to another class, but so far, I'm still there.
Thanks to all of you for the wonderful advise and book recommendations. I'll check into those books for sure.
Thanks!

At least you know a route to take for solutions then- if he can maintain his behavior around others then he can control his behavior...it's just a manner of finding what is going to work. A highly spirited child or a child with behavioral special needs will more than likely NOT be able to curb their behavior around others.
He may need totally different parenting techniques than your others, he may be the only one who would benefit from public school while your others flourish in Home School, he may be in need of heavy activity and need to be one of these kids enrolled in sports 7 days a week, he could be extremely gifted.... i don't know BUT I am hopeful you will find a solution that will work for everyone!!! GL!

[bobandjess99]

Have you ruled out a new allergy, or that maybe he is getting ahold of (from friends or at school?) something he is allergic to and that is causing a resurgence of the allergic behavior?

[latinmama]

Thanks again you all wonderful mommies for your advise. These last couple of days have been a little easier with him; he hit me twice, but he apologized immediately and started crying. I really think being sick affects him in his behavior! Oh! And one more thing, he had a little wart on his chest last time he was having some issues, and after applying clove oil it faded away. Well, today I noticed that he has a little bump of a wart on his chest again. Warts are caused by a virus, so I'm positive he reacts more extremely when his system is fighting a bug!
Thanks again!

[prescottchels]

Sounds like you got some great advice up there and that you're already doin great things for him! I'd second checking into his diet to make sure he's not allergic to anything. Food allergies and intolerances create irritability that intensifies if it's not addressed. Have you considered Eat Right 4 Your Type?

Also boys around 4 yrs old go thru a major testosterone surge, which of course also increases aggressiveness. So making sure he has lots and lots of physical exercise and good sleep is helpful.

Cheers,
Chelsie