Natural (aka, non-vaccine) immunity- How long does it last?

[Mrsboyko]

With out re-exposure to the particular disease (for a "booster")? I have been thinking about this a lot lately. I did have CP as a kid. Meseals too. Not sure about mumps, but I think I had it. I am 26 y/o. Obviously i could get my titers drawn every once in a while to see if I still have those immunities, but in general, how long should they stick around? Any studies done on this?

[Super Glue Mommy]

this for now:
http://www.mothering.com/discussions.../t-393220.html

as far as vaccine immunity, it depends on the vaccine how long its supposed to "work" before a booster is needed. Natural immunity should be life long, but I am sure there are exceptions! I will look up more articles now I dont have anything saved on this computer lol

[Super Glue Mommy]

"Isn't natural immunity better than vaccine-induced immunity?

Natural immunity and vaccine-induced immunity are both natural responses of the body's immune system. The body's immune response in both circumstances is the same. While vaccine-induced immunity may diminish with time, 'natural' immunity, acquired by catching the disease is usually life-long. The problem is that the wild or 'natural' disease has a high risk of serious illness and occasionally death. Children or adults can be re-immunised (with some vaccines but not all) if their immunity falls to a low level. It is important to remember that vaccines are many times safer than the diseases they prevent. "

http://www.stonnington.vic.gov.au/ww...d-immunity.asp

(you will notice I usually reference pro-vaccine sources. I don't agree with everything they say, as they have a product to sell, but they support the science of way immunity works, which is explained more scientifically in the thread I linked you to previously.

[Super Glue Mommy]

MORE:

natural immunity is defined as:
1. immunity to disease that occurs as part of an individual's natural biologic makeup

[Gitti]

To be truthful no one knows. Not even the best immunologist knows how long natural immunity lasts and how long each vaccine immunity in each person can last. So they go by a general guide line.

Natural immunity should last a life time. Vaccine immunity anywhere from a few weeks in some people and for some diseases, up to 10 years or more in others and for other diseases.

There is no reliable way to test it. Titres is all we do but we don't know whether they actually prove immunity or a reaction to the vaccine?

With natural immunity some titres may show no immunity while when that person is exposed to the actual disease, they don't get it.


Again, most natural immunity should last a life time. So a booster won't do any harm either way.

[Marnica]

Originally Posted by Super Glue Mommy

"Isn't natural immunity better than vaccine-induced immunity?

Natural immunity and vaccine-induced immunity are both natural responses of the body's immune system. The body's immune response in both circumstances is the same. While vaccine-induced immunity may diminish with time, 'natural' immunity, acquired by catching the disease is usually life-long. The problem is that the wild or 'natural' disease has a high risk of serious illness and occasionally death. Children or adults can be re-immunised (with some vaccines but not all) if their immunity falls to a low level. It is important to remember that vaccines are many times safer than the diseases they prevent. "

http://www.stonnington.vic.gov.au/ww...d-immunity.asp

(you will notice I usually reference pro-vaccine sources. I don't agree with everything they say, as they have a product to sell, but they support the science of way immunity works, which is explained more scientifically in the thread I linked you to previously.

I think this article has it wrong actually. While an immune response is lauched by the body by natural exposure and by vaccine induced exposure, the body's immune response is definitely not the same!

Natural exposure stimlates an entirely different branch of the immune system than vaccines do. (T1 vs T2 branches). Vaccines stimulate the T2 branch (or the branch that produces antibodies) without stimulating the T1 branch (the one that digests and eliminates the disease. The repeated stimulation of T2 without stimulating T1 shifts the functional balance of the immune system. which many scientists believe is the reason that autoimmune disorders are exploding.

[Super Glue Mommy]

I totally agree with you Marnica - also, if it was the same then why wouldnt it be life long as well? I just try to quote pro-vaccine sources because then the pro-vaccine folk can't say my source doesn't count and then think counteracting it with pro-vaccine sources makes their argument more reliable (I hope that made sense)

[Marnica]

Originally Posted by Super Glue Mommy

I totally agree with you Marnica - also, if it was the same then why wouldnt it be life long as well? I just try to quote pro-vaccine sources because then the pro-vaccine folk can't say my source doesn't count and then think counteracting it with pro-vaccine sources makes their argument more reliable (I hope that made sense)

Makes total sense. I wouldn't even consider this to be a credible vax source pro or con anyway....all it is is a website for the city of Stonington....probably put together by a webmaster copying things from other places. But I know what you are getting at. Besides so much of the provax websites (even legit ones) make false statements like the one above.

[carriebft]

I think it's going to depend on the disease. A measles infection should be life long ptotection as well as something like Hep A, but something like Pertussis has been shown to only last 4-20 years after you had the disease.

[Marnica]

Originally Posted by carriebft

I think it's going to depend on the disease. A measles infection should be life long ptotection as well as something like Hep A, but something like Pertussis has been shown to only last 4-20 years after you had the disease.

I really think their numbers are estimates and conjecture. Hilary Butler's son had classic measles (confirmed by tests) twice in the span of 2 years. She herself had Rubella twice. But overall the thinking is that CP, Measles, Rubella, Hep A are a once in a lifetime thing, but I also think this depends on getting those "natural" boosters from periodic exposure which is not happening because of widespead vaccination.

[carriebft]

There are probably numerous other variables as well....chicken pox can happen again if you had it mild as a young child, which is usually against the standard thinking that once and you are done, ya know?

ETA: or would that be considered a relapse and not a reinfection? like Hep A if you get it again it's just a relapse, you aren't actually being infected again.

I admit I have not done much research on chicken pox since we just don't do that one.

[Super Glue Mommy]

that makes sense carrie, I dont think anyone could argue with that as that is the same thinking we have about vaccines - too many variables to give them credit!

[Juvysen]

Wait, I thought with cp, the lifelong immunity came from frequent re-exposure? Now that it's not circulating as much, that re-exposure is compromised. I thought that's why more adults are getting shingles?

[Super Glue Mommy]

shingles UGH man when I was growing up now THAT was what we heard horror stories about. our parents told us it was GOOD to get the chicken pox. get them while you are young, its worse when you are older.

[ema-adama]

Originally Posted by Marnica

I really think their numbers are estimates and conjecture. Hilary Butler's son had classic measles (confirmed by tests) twice in the span of 2 years. She herself had Rubella twice. But overall the thinking is that CP, Measles, Rubella, Hep A are a once in a lifetime thing, but I also think this depends on getting those "natural" boosters from periodic exposure which is not happening because of widespead vaccination.

I worry about this. I do not know if I should be, but I am. I have felt very cushy knowing that I had all the childhood diseases as a child.... but I wonder if it is that straightforward that I will now have lifelong immunity. I guess I won't know until I am exposed to measles and do or do not get it....
Anyway, I am pretty sure I have years ahead of me in my journey into understanding, and if the last year is anything to go by, I am just going to have more and more questions with fewer and fewer answers.

[ema-adama]

Originally Posted by Marnica

I think this article has it wrong actually. While an immune response is lauched by the body by natural exposure and by vaccine induced exposure, the body's immune response is definitely not the same!

Natural exposure stimlates an entirely different branch of the immune system than vaccines do. (T1 vs T2 branches). Vaccines stimulate the T2 branch (or the branch that produces antibodies) without stimulating the T1 branch (the one that digests and eliminates the disease. The repeated stimulation of T2 without stimulating T1 shifts the functional balance of the immune system. which many scientists believe is the reason that autoimmune disorders are exploding.

Nice and neat

[Mama2Rio]

i've been thinking about this... since i was fully vaxed as a child, if i don't get dd an mmr, which i'm not planning on it, if she gets one of the diseases, do dh and i need to worry about catchung it? ... and what about shedding from a vax? if it's so bad for adults, how much do i really have to worry? my vax must have worn out by now (i'm 25)... i am not about to run out and get another mmr dose for myself... i've been exposed to enough chemicals!

[Marnica]

Originally Posted by Mama2Rio

i've been thinking about this... since i was fully vaxed as a child, if i don't get dd an mmr, which i'm not planning on it, if she gets one of the diseases, do dh and i need to worry about catchung it? ... and what about shedding from a vax? if it's so bad for adults, how much do i really have to worry? my vax must have worn out by now (i'm 25)... i am not about to run out and get another mmr dose for myself... i've been exposed to enough chemicals!

I have heard that the shedding from the MMR vax is theoretical since its a live virus vaccine, but can't be proven? Can't remember where I read this..,anybody else read this??

[Storm Bride]

Originally Posted by Marnica

I really think their numbers are estimates and conjecture. Hilary Butler's son had classic measles (confirmed by tests) twice in the span of 2 years. She herself had Rubella twice. But overall the thinking is that CP, Measles, Rubella, Hep A are a once in a lifetime thing, but I also think this depends on getting those "natural" boosters from periodic exposure which is not happening because of widespead vaccination.

That's possible, but...I know I was given a MMR booster after my second miscarriage. My bloodwork had revealed low levels of....titers? (is that the right word?) for rubella. My measles and mumps levels were fine. I was 30, and I had both mumps and measles as a child (measles at about 6, and mumps at about 8), but I'd never had rubella. Admittedly, MMR wasn't being given routinely when I was young, so I probably had at least some re-exposure to mumps and measles as a teen or young woman...but I know MMR had been on the vax schedule for at least 5 years at that time, as ds1 received them.

[Storm Bride]

Originally Posted by Marnica

I think this article has it wrong actually. While an immune response is lauched by the body by natural exposure and by vaccine induced exposure, the body's immune response is definitely not the same!

Natural exposure stimlates an entirely different branch of the immune system than vaccines do. (T1 vs T2 branches). Vaccines stimulate the T2 branch (or the branch that produces antibodies) without stimulating the T1 branch (the one that digests and eliminates the disease. The repeated stimulation of T2 without stimulating T1 shifts the functional balance of the immune system. which many scientists believe is the reason that autoimmune disorders are exploding.

Can you give me any links to somewhere that I can read more about this? I'm more selective/delayed vax than non-vax, but the more info, the better.