Catholic non-vaxers, how do you justify the stance on vaccines? - Page 2

[claddaghmom]

Originally Posted by caro113

Okay, I'm going to jump right the circ part, as others have already brought up the aborted fetuses deal.

Originally, in medieval Europe, masturbation was considered to be the cause of blindness, alcoholism, mental problems (I think adultery too). Since the Catholic church was also on the rise at this point, it came up with a great solution to prevent men from masturbating: cut off the most sensitive part of the penis. Hence, routine circ of baby boys.

Unfortunately, until we get religion out of politics, things will continue to be this way. I feel the Catholic church is extremely hypocritical (and I was raise Catholic, sent to Catholic school and everything) The church tells you to pray for forgiveness and every Sunday before mass starts, you are to pray for forgiveness of your sins, and that no man above God. They encourage a personal relationship with God and require - yes, require, because if you don't, then are not a Catholic anymore, by their standards at least - attendance at church. And apparently vaccines as well.
Jesus taught that true followers do not need to flaunt their beliefs, as that is something the heathens do, and that they should have a personal relationship with God in private. Yet, the church requires you attend to mass They tell you that no man is above God and to pray for forgiveness, yet require you to go to confession (and force you if you are in school .. and then call home when you refuse) The church came out against birth control, saying that a woman should have as many children as God sees fit. But it says nothing about woman using fertility drugs. (I'm not saying I'm against that, I'm just pointing out the hypocrisy)
Yes, Jesus died for all our sins - accord to the church - but God also made our bodies. And he made them perfect in every way. So why would I compromise such a perfect work of art by bombarding it with toxins? Why would I destroy such a beautiful gift? How exactly would God feel if I took his beautiful work of art and loaded it with toxins? Especially toxins that could kill my child, my perfect made-in-his-image, gift from God, child? How?
The 'God made us perfect' argument is the same argument for why the church should accept homo/bisexuals, but the 'why would I bombard his beautiful work of art with toxins' it is also the exact same argument for why the church preaches against ingesting alcohol and over eating ... hmmm

I really cannot understand how the church can be so against abortions as it is (picketing against it, and some of those radicals bombing drs offices and cars - essencially killing people which I have also always found to be stupid .. killing to stop killing) but be all for vaccines that have aborted fetuses in them. How is that anything like donating the organs of a murdered man? How? That man decided to be an organ donor. That fetus did not.

Sorry, I went really off topic here. I really get fired up about religion, which is kind of funny since I describe myself as a "recovering Catholic". I really find religion fascinating, so please do not take anything I have said rudely. I mean no offense to anyone about any religion. I just find it interesting. I just happen to know more about Catholicism bc I was raise as one.

Oh wow! I didn't know those bombers called themselves Catholics! Interesting.

But, yes, I find it very distressing. From what I can tell (particularly in the link I provided) there is theme of "the end justifies the mean" and "it's okay because more good is gotten than evil made"

I can't figure it out, b/c those two ideas are about as opposite as you can get in Church teaching. ????

Very strange!

To the guy who told me it was like donating a murdered man's organs, I replied back, "No, it's not. The correct analogy would be a man who was murdered, then had his organs sold to a huge company so the company could use his organs to profit off a toxic product supported by our government agencies."

He wasn't very happy lol

[applejuice]

In the Jewish religion Pork is a forbidden food to eat. I do not know halacha (Jewish Law) very intimately, so I do not know if it is OK to inject pork and you just are not allowed to eat it and that is why it is OK to be vaccinated,

Medications as Armour thyroid, made from pourcine thyroid, is considered kosher according to rabbinic law since it is designed to "save a life" or improve health. I do believe that the Muslims would accept it also.

Vaccinations contain gelatin, which is non-kosher.

If you want to use Judaism to justify not vaccinating, I suggest that you research the fundamentalists Jews or Karaites, as they do not follow the Rabbinic tradition.

[Turquesa]

Um, could we please focus this thread a little for the OP? It's sorta going all over the place . . .

Honestly, OP, I do follow the logic of the Vatican to the extent that receiving the rubella vaccine is not the moral equivalent of directly engaging in abortion. But the document completely omits the concerns of public health v. individual health that vaccines raise. Since it does leave room for parents to object on grounds of conscience, I wonder if it might be a state-by-state matter as to whether exemptions are granted.

I did take issue with this portion of your article:

Parents who do not immunize their children against rubella would be responsible for the malformations and subsequent abortions of malformed fetuses that might result from a pregnant women being infected by the unvaccinated child, both the study and Msgr. Suaudeau said.

I read the document in its entirety and only found references to the need to consider the welfare of pregnant women. But there was nothing as harshly worded as what the Msgr is saying. By the way, he's one man (and a doctor at that) expressing a personal opinion. I would pay attention to the document itself, which is more directly reflective of Church teaching.

[sahmama_12]

I'm technically Catholic although I do have some issue with the Church's dogma (which is usually one or several men's interpretations of Scripture.) I usually try to find the root of Jesus message and be true to that. I don't circ and I don't vax but I believe our children come perfect no modifications required. Maybe I'm a heretic but I don't really care. I don't think a Church that preaches about God's perfect creation can also claim that man has devised ways to modify our bodies to make us "better".

[MaryLang]

I believe the key word here is "NON-DOGMATIC".
I don't believe the Church is telling us we need to vaccinate.
I believe that some priest's and other leaders vocalize their opinions.
They are not infallible. They are men.
I DO follow the Dogmatic teachings of the Church.
So I see no need to "justify" or "not justify" my stance.
I am an informed parent, as well as a member of the Catholic Church, that chooses not to vaccinate. And aside from the fact that some vaccines use tissue from fetus', (which I morally oppose) I have never linked the two, that being the Church and my choice to vaccinate or not-nor do I plan to now.

[claddaghmom]

Thanks MaryLang. I was just surfing the internet and it hit me like the proverbial 2x4.



I was so troubled by this, but lol! There are tons of people who call themselves Catholic but their beliefs are all over the place. Of course, why wouldn't vaccinations, circumcision, birth control et al be in there?

I don't know why it took me so long to figure that one out.