Disicpline in the Montessori classroom

[Sam75]

OK so just as I'm beginning to lean towards my kids finishing the K year in M after reading more about the K year.. and then here we go.. I know most Montessori kids are far better behaved compared to public school kids. I'm proud to say my kids are way better behaved, and share their stuff better than most kids in our block. However, kids are kids. And sometimes, boys do funny things. (and I have one of each!) :-)

However, our school (AMS accredited) has a very interesting policy on timeouts.. its not really a time out in the sense you sit there forever or for whatever minutes based on age.. but at times if the child is being disruptive, they talk to them, and if that does not work, let them calm down outside the classroom when they are ready to make better choices.

HOWEVER.. I firmly believe you should be WITHIN the area where you can actually SEE the child.

Yesterday I found out they put a child outside (in the garden area which is an enclosed area with a chain link fence, within the play area) with no one there to watch him. Its right at the entrance gate that people come and go right outside a major street. If the kid is upset enough, they can easily open the gate to the chain link and go play by themselves outside. No assistant teacher, no one else there to supervise. And the classroom door was closed. The reason was, this kid and another one started misbehaving at lunch time and wasn't allowing another child to eat her lunch. Granted, most parents are probably not as picky about safety measures as we are... and this particular parent to this child, I'm sure will not care one way or the other is my guess. They are very laid back. Oh, I should point out, that the entire playground is enclosed though with a tall privacy fence in case I wasn't clear with my description. But its the fact that the child was alone outside the classroom that bothers me.

Am I the only one that cares about this ? Isn't this a safety violation ? It is not my child but still a child. I worry whether they will do this to my child one day. Is this something I should even ask the teacher/director about ? I've done this before and I sure don't want to be the one to always question safety violations.

I would have thought my child was making this stuff up, but this is honestly the second time something to this nature happened. The first time they started leaving children in a hallway with no direct person right there, at pick up times, with no adult there to watch them when a parent is even 5 min late. We contacted the director and along with a few other parents, got them to stop doing that and change that rule. It was clearly a violation with the dept of child care licensing.

Now this. I mean, I've checked with the child care licensing online, and they have very few violations that I can see. But then they do these things that makes me trust them a little less.

What do you think ? I would have expected these types of issues from a public school, but not from a private Montessori that is accredited with the AMS so you would think they would follow the Montessori principles more closely than a school which is not.

thanks!

[GuildJenn]

As I read your threads, I am starting to think that this school is just not a good fit. I'm not sure what I would do mid-year with that, but there is a definite pattern there.

I wouldn't be happy with that way of doing things.

[BCFD]

You should talk to the director about it. I think if a child is being extremely disruptive and nothing else has worked to help him find peace, then removing him from the classroom might be the only solution. *HOWEVER* there should *ALWAYS* be a teacher that stays with that child. In our school, I have seen only a handful of times children sitting in the director's office because they couldn't calm themselves down (and they are usually in the throw's of a major meltdown). It always seems to be the same 2 little boys and they can be very disruptive to the class when they are like that.

My kids go half days and I pick them up just as all the kids are laying down for naps. One of my children (my 3 year old) stays in the room quietly with the other children and either looks at books, works on a puzzle, or strings foam beads. My other child (4 y.o.) sits in the waiting area with the other half day kids until the parents come to get them. They always have somebody with them, but there has been the occasion where the adult is just near them in another room. That has bugged me a little bit since it is right at the front entrance, but the chef at the school has a direct view to the front door in the kitchen and she is ALWAYS in there (she is also a teacher assistant). I would probably freak out if nobody was around.

[eepster]

First, are you sure the child was alone? It sounds like you heard it from your LO. He may not have realized that this other child was in veiw of a certain adult he was unaware of. I would try to clarify things first to be sure someone wasn't actually watching him.

If indeed the child was alone, that does sound like a violation of something. I don't know exactly where you live (I hope it wasn't NJ b/c today being made to sit outside would have had a danger of hypothermia even if someone was watching him,) but I would expect most states don't allow children to be unsupervised in playgrounds.

At DS's school, they even have a staff member who waits in the hall to make sure kids needing to go potty get there OK (that person also helps the kids pull up thheir pants wash their hands etc.) If the hall person isn't there the class assitant walks the child all the way to the bathroom. If a child is terribly upset the director of the school will take the child for a walk, but children are never left unattended.

[fadedgirl]

:

[MattBronsil]

I'm a little confused on exactly what you saw. So I'm just trying to get a better handle on it and understand it better. Here's kind of how I picture it.

You were coming in through the front entrance you mentioned. There was a child in the fenced in area where the garden is and...that's a little where I get confused.

Is it that there was no teacher present, both inside or outside? Or is it that there was no way possible to see from the inside to the outside area?

Help me understand more what you saw. As a general answer to your question, children need to be seen at all times. The exception to that is, in many areas, something like the bathroom where more privacy is allowed. The garden definitely doesn't count as the bathroom. Unless it's a REALLY alternative/hippie school :

[Lillianna]

We have a garden area and outdoor patio where the child (or a few) might be working or sitting or shoveling snow, etc...while both adults are working with the larger group indoors. The patio is within sight. Of course, the child must demonstrate responsible behaviour to have this priveledge.
I, personally, do not agree with separating a child who needs guidance the most and who is upset or not showing responsible behaviour. Those are the children who I keep right next to me, or I stay right next to them.

[Sam75]

I have not asked the director yet. I am debating whether I should ask the teacher first, and then the director afterwards etc. anyway, or even bother at this point...

Now to answer Matt's question .. I did not see anything that happened. It was told to me by our child. Now I know what you guys are thinking.. kids get things confused all the time and they do not get the whole picture etc. etc. etc. and this is true most times. But not all of the time.

but as I said before, I've seen this situation before where children were left alone (my 3 year old being one of them) when parents were late for pick up where the kids could not be directly seen by an adult (adult was in another room). It was corrected since there were more parents upset about that, and they changed that rule from then on, which I'm happy about.

To me as a parent, even if a child did something wrong, it still does not justify asking them to stay outside the classroom as a timeout/calm down thing. Its bad enough they do the timeouts outside the class in a hallway. Still, someone should always be within eye sight or outside with the child on timeout.

Haven't decided yet what to do.. again I know I should ask to get their side soon.

[MattBronsil]

"If you agree to clarify 90% of the stories your child brings home, I'll agree to clarify 90% of the stories the child brings to school." ;-)

I think an outdoor garden area can be a great place to calm down if there's supervision.

[Sam75]

Update:

Well it turns out that the teacher was putting children outside the classroom alone. "Supervision" meant someone looking through a window from the inside. Which can and cannot be consistent depending on who is watching and what distractions are there from the inside.

But whether or not the teacher was doing the right thing in a "montessori" way by letting the child calm down, is irrelevant. Where we live, that is a serious violation. The director agreed it was and said they are not supposed to leave kids outside a classroom alone on a timeout. It will not happen again.

Guess I should believe what my child tells me more often! :-)

[MattBronsil]

Originally Posted by Sam75

Guess I should believe what my child tells me more often! :-)

: Always believe them. Even when they're completely wrong, they might not be lying.

[Sam75]

True. Thats how this thread began in the first place!

[smaug20000]

Thanks for the update. I wanted to post too that in our state of VA, you must be able to see and hear the child. They cannot be out of either sight or sound observation. I am glad you notified the director, that is a dangerous precedent they were starting there.