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post #41 of 106
i'm SO doing hypnobabies.
post #42 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raene View Post
The creator of HypnoBabies, I think her name is Kerry, was a student of Mongan's. She learned HypnoBirthing first and took her knowledge with that and created HypnoBabies. (Just for some background)
That is inaccurate. Kerry taught Bradley for 10 years and did train/certify with HypnoBirthing. After teaching some HypnoBirthing couples and attending their births (and seeing not great results) she started learning more about hypnosis. She approached Mongan about improving the HypnoBirthing program. Mongan wasn't interested. They parted ways. Kerry then went on to keep learning about hypnosis and developed Hypnobabies using Gerald Kein's Painless Childbirth (not Marie Mongan's HypnoBirthing).

Really, if Kerry had "ripped off" HypnoBirthing, wouldn't they be exactly the same and have the same results? They are NOT the same and they get different results (as is illustrated time and time again by people posting their experiences with both).

I understand, Raene, that you're getting the HypnoBirthing POV on this. When I was a HypnoBirthing Practitioner I was privy to the same story about Kerry and her "stealing" of the HypnoBirthing program. As I'm sure everyone is aware, there are always two sides. I've heard both and know that Kerry is innocent of these ridiculous claims.
post #43 of 106
ing im a doula and my march mom is studying hypnobabies.
post #44 of 106
Thread Starter 
qimama,
I love that - "preparing you for the constant surrender that is Motherhood". That's how I felt during my first trimester when I was so sick!
Thanks everyone for your input so far, I'm loving this conversation.
I've decided to go ahead and order the Hypnobabies program. I've been listening to the CD that comes with the Hypnobirthing book, and I'm so impressed with it's effectiveness for just keeping me calm and peaceful after just a week. I think something more in-depth will be awesome!
post #45 of 106

Hypnobabies Rocks over HypnoBirthing

Congratulations on your upcoming birth! I, too, am looking forward to a new birthing this summer.

My personal experience starts when I was an L&D nurse. I saw a few moms come through using Hypnobirthing, and each one had the instructor as their doula. For the most part, the moms were more relaxed during their birthing time. But, the moms "lost it" toward the end of the birthing, nearing the actual birth of baby. This was similar to most other moms birthing with other natural-birthing methods.

When I got pregnant with my first, I took HypnoBirthing classes. I didn't learn to make more than just my hand go numb. I learned great relaxation of mind and body; but I had to be lying perfectly still or sitting fully-supported for this relaxation to work. I couldn't move around, and it did not work in the tub.

The same thing happened to me that I saw in my own previous patients. I "lost the ability to remain relaxed" toward the end. But, I birthed my 10lb 2oz, 24 inch-long son naturally; my pain level was significant, pushing was long (2.5 hours).

Between babies #1 and #2, I researched other hypnosis for childbirth methods. I found Hypnobabies and fell in love. I used the Homestudy course as there were no classes in my area. There is so much more education in Hypnobabies.

Hypnobabies teaches hypno-anesthesia. I truly felt ONLY PRESSURE with my pressure waves (aka contractions). And, I was able to move around, be in the shower or tub, talk and walk- all while being in hypnosis and feeling no discomfort in my birthing muscles. I pushed only 4 pressure waves long and it was amazing! I was not exhausted after baby #2- I had so much energy.

I am now a Hypnobabies instructor and am looking forward to another beautiful and pain-free birthing. I hope you will find the right method for you. But, all I can say as a mom is that Hypnobabies really works as anesthesia- not just guided relaxation.

FYI- HypnoBirthing is a trademarked name and is not used to describe Hypnobabies. Hypnosis for childbirth is allowable.
post #46 of 106
I used hypnobirthing with my daughter last january. I'm also using it again this summer. It is wonderful for focusing & relaxing. I strongly believe that without the hypnobirthing, I wouldn't have made it through over 26 hours of back labor & an all-natural midwife delivery. Drugs were never an option though because the birthing center didn't have epidurals, etc. so that was another helping point. I really, really learned to breathe & also breathed the baby down into my transition period...Best of luck.
post #47 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by Veritaserum View Post
Kerry then went on to keep learning about hypnosis and developed Hypnobabies using Gerald Kein's Painless Childbirth (not Marie Mongan's HypnoBirthing).
I can vouch for the fact that Hypnobabies is mainly an expansion of Gerald Kein's Painless Childbirth program, which is based on the hypnosis inductions and principles of pioneer hypnotist Dave Elman (Kein's teacher). I was briefly an aspiring hypnotherapist who did Gerald Kein's training program, and I have Gerald Kein's Painless Childbirth video program (for training hypnotists) in my library.

I was pleased when I started using HypnoBabies distance course scripts (for preparing for my own future homebirth!) because they use variations of the Elman induction and Kein's program (including hypno-anesthesia) as presented in his video, techniques that I am comfortable with and believe in.
post #48 of 106
I used HypnoBirthing in 2000 with great results. I was a first time mom... I took the classes about 1.5 months before my due date. I really liked the class. It helped me to "get" the concept, vs. reading a book alone and listening to tapes. Listening to the practioners stories of real life examples also helped empower me.

The first few contractions "surges" at home were hell. Then I remembered what I was supposed to do (via the deep body relaxation you learn from listening to the Rainbow Relaxation CD) - go limp like a rag doll. The pain completely stopped. It did not hurt again after that. I had an 18+ hour painFREE hospital labor. When I got in the shower, I felt ENDORPHINS!

Basically, the uterus is like a muscle, you move your elbows, arms, it doesn't hurt... same deal with the uterus. It's not supposed to, but often it does because women tense up their bodies (anticipating the worse). If you go completely limp and completely relax head-to-toe, the pain completely stops. The trick is learning/practicing deep relaxation ahead of time in a way that works for you. Bradley tells you that, but doesn't train you how to relax (not as well as HypnoBirthing does).

My transition didn't hurt either. I was brushing my teeth through it and anytime a surge came on, I stopped what I was doing, leaned on the sink and deeply relaxed and waited for it to pass.

I could never do the exercise for making my hand go numb. So I gave up on anything that didn't work for me and focused on what did - for me it was the Rainbow Relaxation CD. I was able to relax AND move freely when I wanted to. I got up, pee'd, brushed my teeth, got in the shower. I never lost it in the end.

You can read about my first birth in this MDC thread: Tell me more about Hypnobirthing!

I had my daughter at home in 2004. I ordered some HypnoBabies CDs to supplement what I was doing. I don't think they helped me much and frankly... it might have done some minor harm.

I was so wiped out exhausted after her birth. I didn't feel any "birth high" or bonding with my daughter and I couldn't figure it out. What the heck was going on? I sometimes talk to a psychic (my friend's SIL) from time to time and I asked her what the heck was going on. She said I looked "glassy eyed" like I was under the influence of something. Weird. Basically I was still under hypnosis from the NUMEROUS (2-3) Hypnobabies tapes I used. My psychic gave me some verbal commands to snap me out of it.

So... I'm sticking with HypnoBirthing. I think Doula's who create their own Hypno-business tapes mean well, but they are not trained Hypnotherapists (first and foremost), so there needs to be some very clear guidelines for the products they produce and how they should be used, or not.
post #49 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tanibani View Post
Basically, the uterus is like a muscle, you move your elbows, arms, it doesn't hurt... same deal with the uterus. It's not supposed to, but often it does because women tense up their bodies (anticipating the worse).
See, I think this is the crux of the issue many women have with the Hypnobirthing approach. Telling me that my muscle, which has to change its shape by ten centimeters (which is significant, IMO)-- not just move -- should not be painful is unrealistic. It's not the tensing that is painful. It's the dilating ten centimeters. At least for me, and for many mamas I know.

I absolutely don't deny that some women are able to have a truly painfree labor and delivery. I am envious of them. But equating muscle movement to dilation isn't accurate, for me. One is an everyday normal activity. The other isn't.

And I think setting it up as an expectation, that labor "should not be painful" is what has become the issue for some mamas in dealing with Hypnobirthing. Labor, for most women, is painful. There are numerous ways to minimize and deal with the pain, and some ways work better for some mamas than others. But telling me that labor should be no more painful then moving my elbow? Makes no sense to me. Sorry.
post #50 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by nighten View Post
Makes no sense to me. Sorry.
I don't expect it to make sense to you or most people. Not to most women, who have experienced that pain. I'm just sharing my story. Some people will be inspired and empowered and others won't be. That's OK.

I have a friend (very natural minded mother) who just had her 6th (single birth) baby. After her 4th baby, I tried to explain my POV to her. She said, "no, no, no... all my labors were absolute hell, I have to have the epidural, etc..." I get it. Because I experienced the same thing.

I explained what she had to do, how it worked.... so for her 5th, she did it (no CDs, no class, just went limp like a rag doll in the car on the way to the hospital). By the time she got there it was too late for the epidural, but she was proud of herself b/c it was the first time she had a med-free birth and a totally alert baby.

For her 6th baby, she borrowed my RR CD 2 weeks before her due date. She listened to it 2x+ a day. The day of she stayed on her feet, kept herself vacuuming, busy, did not pay attention to the contractions and she said she felt no pain. "Tanya was right!"

And I really don't care "how" you get there... whether it's Hypnobirthing, Hypnobabies... whatever... as long as it works for you. And I can tell you that Hypnobirthing works. And other people are going to tell you that another method worked. Great.
post #51 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tanibani View Post
I think Doula's who create their own Hypno-business tapes mean well, but they are not trained Hypnotherapists (first and foremost), so there needs to be some very clear guidelines for the products they produce and how they should be used, or not.
Yeah.... Kerry is a certified hypnotherapist, fyi. I personally found her supplemental set for HypnoBirthing moms to be enormously helpful after taking HypnoBirthing classes.

In the end, we all need to choose what's best for us. It's nice to have options.
post #52 of 106
I am currently preparing for my second Hypnobabies birth. This time at home! My previous one was at a birthcenter.

I used the homestudy course, because that just works better for me and for my DH as well.

It was the most amazing, healing, and empowering experience I have ever had!!!!!! That was after two disappointing hospital births.

I can honestly say I felt no "pain". It certainly got intense, but I was never in "pain". I was always completely in control of myself. It was magnificent!!

Good luck on whichever you decide. I think I decided on Hypnobabies when I heard about the greater attention to detail.
post #53 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by nighten View Post
See, I think this is the crux of the issue many women have with the Hypnobirthing approach. Telling me that my muscle, which has to change its shape by ten centimeters (which is significant, IMO)-- not just move -- should not be painful is unrealistic. It's not the tensing that is painful. It's the dilating ten centimeters. At least for me, and for many mamas I know.

I absolutely don't deny that some women are able to have a truly painfree labor and delivery. I am envious of them. But equating muscle movement to dilation isn't accurate, for me. One is an everyday normal activity. The other isn't.

And I think setting it up as an expectation, that labor "should not be painful" is what has become the issue for some mamas in dealing with Hypnobirthing. Labor, for most women, is painful. There are numerous ways to minimize and deal with the pain, and some ways work better for some mamas than others. But telling me that labor should be no more painful then moving my elbow? Makes no sense to me. Sorry.
I see what you mean- as I said before, I prefer to see it as refraining from creating negative expectations in advance, being open to whatever sensation will bring in the moment and dealing with it then.. But I just wanted to say, that the uterine muscle contracting is what tends to be the source of the pain or pressure of labor, it's what you feel, but the uterus doesn't get any bigger- it does that gradually through pregnancy, yk? The cervix is dilating and effacing but you don't feel your cervix dilating... I don't think, at least, I haven't btdt yet.. I also think one might argue that while yes, your body is going through a lot of change to birth a baby, it was made to do that- not the same as stretching any other part of the body beyond what it's intended use is, if that makes sense, because the uterus and cervix are supposed to be flexible to have babies. I guess I also look at it as a cultural understanding. Pain tends to equal bad. And fear tends to accompany it. It usually indicates something is wrong. So while the sensations may or may not be felt as pain by different women, one could argue that it is a fundamentally different concept because it is a positive sensation, and a normal one- bringing your baby into the world and doing what your body was meant to do, rather than alerting you to harm or danger.. Just my two cents, which is really my expansion of the HypnoBirthing ideas and my doula's approach.. like I said before, she works with the program in a rather unique way, and having read the book I can see how it seems to be saying, you shouldn't ever feel pain and if you do then you are doing it wrong. I just don't take that at face value, but take the components of that that are useful to me, if that makes sense.
post #54 of 106
Thread Starter 
Just ordered the HypnoBabies home-study course!
post #55 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by simplykate View Post
Just ordered the HypnoBabies home-study course!
Woo hoo!!! Congratulations!!!!!!! You will love it! If you have any questions, I am happy to answer! I am noooooo expert (as there are some here) but I am currently studying for my second Hypnobaby birth!
post #56 of 106
I took a Hypnobirthing class with my first birth. While it did help me to have a very calm pregnancy, I walked in to the birth center, a fingertip dilated asking for pain meds.

With my second, I had found Hypnobabies online, got the Home Study program and was completely amazed by the abundance of tools for both me and my partner. My birthing time was AMAZING. Nothing short of the most amazing experience I've ever had. I was calm, I was comfortable, I was in control. I did experience discomfort, but when the MW told me I was 9cm... OMG I had no idea. It was beautiful and I wish I could do it again right now.

A year after my son was born, I flew to CA (from MD) to become a Hypnobabies instructor. I've been teaching ever since, and I love even more than when I used it myself. I continue to use the tools I learned doing Hypnobabies in my every day life. I'm an expert at relaxation!

Not only that, the Hypnobabies program is a complete childbirth class. We cover all the bases. It's really fantastic.

Good luck!
post #57 of 106
Tanibani,

I don't dispute that there are a variety of methods to reduce the pain, and I wholeheartedly agree that tensing up worsens pain. What I find troubling is your statement: "It's not supposed to."

Meaning there isn't SUPPOSED to be pain involved in labor? So that means if there is pain then I must be doing something wrong? It's my fault it hurts so badly? I didn't relax enough. Right.

Wow.

That to me is borderline offensive. It's certainly demoralizing.

I believe absolutely in the power of positive thinking, and that it can have an enormous impact on our physical bodies. But I also believe that labor, for most women, hurts. And that's the norm. And while there are numerous ways to deal with the pain (hypno-anesthesia being just one), making claims that "it's not supposed to" sets up most women to fail. Count yourself blessed.

Mama_Gaia, I totally agree that the opposite -- focusing on telling an expectant woman how much labor is SUPPOSED to hurt, and focusing on the negative, the pain words, etc., and implying there is no way to escape the pain (excepting epidural or what have you) is certainly no better, nor realistic. It is just as damaging, IME.

There is surely a happy medium in there that can be very empowering. My argument is that being told one extreme (labor "should" be no different than any other daily muscle movement) is as misleading as being told it "should" be the most painful thing ever experienced.

Every woman is different. Every birth is different. I fully expect this labor to be easier than my previous one because I go into it far better armed with relaxation and hypno-anesthesia techniques, a doula, and personal, previous experience. Plus I listen to my body.

What I find disconcerting about some of the statements associated especially with Hypnobirthing is the notion of how pain-free labor "SHOULD" be, or is "SUPPOSED" to be, and that, to me, is just as damaging as using all the negative words, and setting up expectations to the other extreme, etc.

Does that make sense? Again, I envy women who are lucky enough to have a truly pain-free labor and delivery, like the PP. But to make the assumption that it's the norm is unrealistic and unfair to most mamas. That's what I take issue with. Not Mongan as a person or whether she sued or whatever. It's setting up women to have unrealistic expectations.

---

And for what it's worth, I have been feeling all my prodromal contractions in my cervix proper. I also experience fairly consistent discomfort (as do many mamas) in pregnancy as my uterine and other muscles stretch.

In addition, there can be up to 55 pounds' worth of pressure placed on the uterus when contractions occur. Based on where the baby is positioned is how the contractions are felt. Last time I felt them all in my lower back. This time I'm feeling them in my cervix itself (which is odd, yet encouraging).

As I said before, Hypnobirthing obviously works well for some mamas and that's great. But the claims that labor "should" be pain-free bother me greatly -- as much if not more than the claims that labor "should" be the most horrific thing ever. Both are setting expectations that are unrealistic and potentially damaging, psychologically.

I'm in total agreement that expectations play a huge role in this, which is the main reason I think such claims (labor being painless as the norm) are unrealistic and in most cases, inaccurate.
post #58 of 106
This is an interesting discussion. I had never heard of hypnobabies before this website, but my partner and I did use hypnobirth in preparation for our second baby due this month. I haven't had any experience of using it to actively labour and birth, but it has already helped tremendously in getting ready for that day. It sounds like hypnobabies is similar in that regard. I have anxiety issues when not pregnant and with a bad experience with my first birth, I was having trouble even thinking about birth, much less doing it. I probably would have ended up having a cesarean for not progressing because my body would have tensed up in fear, my anxiety was that severe. I can happily say that whether Marie Mongon is full of it or not, hearing her calm me down on the rainbow relaxation CD every night has made me anticipate and even look forward to birthing day.

Every tool in the birthing kit helps, you know? I've taken to doing the R.R. cd during the day while doing meal prep or random housekeeping, to practice being active and relaxed at the same time. Who knows what will feel good while I labour, maybe I will be comfortable laying in the bed, but its good to have options.
post #59 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by nighten View Post
Tanibani,

I don't dispute that there are a variety of methods to reduce the pain, and I wholeheartedly agree that tensing up worsens pain. What I find troubling is your statement: "It's not supposed to."

Meaning there isn't SUPPOSED to be pain involved in labor? So that means if there is pain then I must be doing something wrong? It's my fault it hurts so badly? I didn't relax enough. Right.
Whoa... you are making great assumptions here on what I think of normal laboring women. No duh it's the norm for most women to feel pain during labor. That's b/c everyone tenses up. They get scared of the unknown. Pretty normal. Is it "your fault"? Is it anyone's fault? Um, no. Why the rush to blame yourself or anyone else? I'm not blaming you, anyone, or myself for that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nighten View Post
Wow.

That to me is borderline offensive. It's certainly demoralizing.
Wow is how I feel about your response also.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nighten View Post
I believe absolutely in the power of positive thinking, and that it can have an enormous impact on our physical bodies. But I also believe that labor, for most women, hurts. And that's the norm. And while there are numerous ways to deal with the pain (hypno-anesthesia being just one), making claims that "it's not supposed to" sets up most women to fail. Count yourself blessed.
Hynobirthing has nothing to do with "positive thinking". That's not what it teaches. All I had learned was a way to consciously and thoroughly relax my body (with one CD I relied on, since the other examples didn't gel with me), progressively at first, but by the end, at the drop of a hat. It went from 90 (pain) to zero in seconds thanks to that.

I completely disagree that making a claim that "it's not supposed to hurt" sets up most women to fail. Nonsense. I found it empowering. I think it gives women hope that are they can do this.

But it won't be empowering for everyone. Other people will get reactive and defensive and that's a shame.
post #60 of 106
Hi Simplykate,
I just wanted to let you know my point of view from someone who has been there. With my first son, I used Hypnobirthing. At the time, I though it was a great program. It was very infomative and I enjoyed the classes and the instructor. (I wanted to use hypnobabies but there were no instructors in the area. I thought, well, they're both the same right...) Well, they are not the same. Before I continue, I am now a hypnobabies instructor. The birth of my son inspired me to teach a method that I knew was better so... As far as the birth, we had a wonderful experience for the first 20 hours. I stayed very relaxed and didn't feel "mind numbing" pain. After 20 hours though, I was not progressing. I think it was because I felt like I could only "relax" in bed as I had been trained to. A big part of labor is movement and I didn't. So, after that, we decided to get pitocin and an epidural and 4 hours later, my beautiful son was born. I feel like I was very lucky that I didn't get caught up in the intervention whirlwind but I know that thinkgs would have been totally different had I used Hypnobirthing the first time around. I surely will for thenext one... I hope this helped...
sincerly,
stephanie
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