Raw Food Diet for DOgs

[roadfamily6now]

I am looking at converting my dog to a Raw Diet. I was wondering if anyone here did / does that and could offer up some wisdom.

THanks!

[AngelBee]

Our dog has major allergies and this is what was recommended so :

[wannabemoms]

Here's an older thread with some good tips:

http://www.mothering.com/discussions...&highlight=raw

My tips (from the link):

We have three dogs who are now on raw full-time.

In terms of "what" we feed:

-chicken: whole, quarters, thighs, drumsticks, backs, necks
-pork: legs, shouders, chops
-fish: any white fish, salmon, sardines
-other: any beef/lamb cuts we can find in the freezer, and some ground beef
-offal: beef liver, pork liver, chicken liver, lamb and veal kidney, pork heart, pork tongue, green tripe (tongue and heart are mainly muscle, so we will use them both as "muscle" meat and "offal"

Each dog gets 1.5-3% of its body weight per day, broken into two meals (some feed once a day but two works for us). The amount you feed will depend on the dog. Our bonerack GSD needs at least the full 3% a day or gets bonier. Our almost-same-weight terrier mix gets the 1.5%, or get gets beefy. You need to watch their body condition and adjust accordingly.

10% offal/organ, 10-15% bone, the rest meat (I eyeball the bone, try to use common sense.) For organ we feed about 1/2 liver, 1/4 tripe, and 1/4 whatever else.

Shopping: I scour flyers for bargains every week. I try not to pay more than $.99/lb for anything ($2.18/kg). Our butcher, who we have a good relationship with, gives us all his chicken backs/scraps for free. We can also buy many of the organs at about 0.75/lb or less if we buy a box of it at a time. I've also managed to get some free meat using freecycle, asking for freezer burnt/unwanted meat.

Storing: We have a freezer downstairs, but keep it unplugged in winter. All the extra meat is stored in bins in our shed outside right now.

Prep: I do once a week cooking for the humans and do the same for the dogs now too. I have a bunch of freezer bags, which I reuse. I make up one bag per dog per day with everything but the organs. I've discovered that my dogs prefer organs frozen rather than thawed, so I prep those separately, one bag per dog per week. I have a bin in my fridge (just in case a bag is leaking) to keep about 2 days worth of food, one thawed and one thawing for the next day. I keep the offal bags in the freezer; my dogs prefer their organs frozen so it's easy to dispense the food that way.

Feeding: Every morning I put half the food from the dog's bag out. In the evening, they get what's left plus a couple of organ peices. If it's bony food, like a quarter, they usually want to take it out of the bowl and eat it elsewhere, usually their dog beds. I have a few Gory Nasty Chicken Towels which I place on their beds prior to eating, then remove when they're done and toss in the laundry. Plain ol' meat they're usually content to gnaw away over their bowls.

Cleaning: I don't notice a smell, and I'm not super-concerned about bacteria, to be honest. I use glass cutting boards when prepping, and wipe all the surfaces and the scale down afterward, same as I would if I was prepping human food. Gory Nasty Chicken Towels get laundered. Honestly, with the exception of a bit of extra handwashing for the freezer bags, its not even that much extra work. Maybe 1-2 hours (because I'm obsessive about measuring/labelling etc but I'm sure I over complicate it ) a week to prep, then it's just "toss in bowl".

[roadfamily6now]

Crystal, that was wonderfully helpful! Thank you

I see you dont feed anything besides meat. I have read on a few websites to add vegies and oats, flax seed oil.....stuff like that. What is your opinion on that?

When you convert, do you suggest slow or all at once?

[KLPeanut]

We give our dogs dry food, raw meat and veggies. The veggies i chop up in my cuisinart and mix together. They get a scoop of that each day in their dry food. They get a piece of raw meat at night. Vet told us to give it to them at room temperature - something about it being easier on their digestion. They don't seem to care but my husband will sometimes nuke it in the microwave.

I usually mix together parsley, broccolli, squash or zucchini, carrots, celery and whatever else I have.

I give them the dry food because I don't always have time to mix up the veggies or we forget to defrost the meat.

I keep it simple or it won't get done.

[beanma]

what is the benefit of raw vs cooked?

[Ola_]

Originally Posted by roadfamily6now

I see you dont feed anything besides meat. I have read on a few websites to add vegies and oats, flax seed oil.....stuff like that. What is your opinion on that?

When you convert, do you suggest slow or all at once?

Not just meat - that wouldn't be a balanced diet. What you need is meat, bone, and organs; those are the key components. The suggested percentages are 75-85% meat, 10-15% bone, and 5-10% organs, but I just interpret that as "lots" of meat, "some" bone, and a "little" organ meat.

Veggies are something dogs cannot digest without our help, which in my opinion means they were not meant to eat them. Grains - well, that's what most of us are trying to avoid by feeding raw. The reason they are in dry food is to bring costs down and because the machines that make kibble need a certain carb content to work. Flax seed oil is a common allergen - a better choice for dogs is fish oil which is an animal source and has the needed Omega 3 rather than Omega 6 (which they already get too much of). Any other questions?

[greenmagick]

Most of the basics are already covered in this thread. I have been feeding raw for a good 6 years now. I had three dogs on it for awhile, now we just have one. I never was able to convince my cats to switch, keep meaning to try again. When I first started I measured everything, made grain and veggie porridges, supplements, etc. Now, I pretty much just feed meat, bones, and organs. He does also get scraps from the kids, but those cant be helped

[BlueSkyJennifer]

We brought home our 8 week old golden pup in November and have been feeding him raw for 3 months now. I am convinced it is the optimal diet and it is much easier than I expected. The best resource I've found is the yahoo group on raw feeding. I learned so much from searching the archives there. Good luck!

[kmeyrick]

Originally Posted by beanma

what is the benefit of raw vs cooked?

Cooked means no worms or food poisoning. My mother works for a vet and he deals with this a lot. Most dogs can handle raw meat just fine but you never know. They have a shorter digestive tract to process foods quickly, yes, but there is still a risk.

[greenmagick]

Originally Posted by beanma

what is the benefit of raw vs cooked?

There are a lot, but mainly it is the enzymes that cooking destroys. Look up BARF (biologically appropriate raw food) and there is a ton of info. Sorry, heading to bed now so dont have time for a long answer, though I am sure someone else will pop on.

[greenmagick]

Originally Posted by kmeyrick

Cooked means no worms or food poisoning. My mother works for a vet and he deals with this a lot. Most dogs can handle raw meat just fine but you never know. They have a shorter digestive tract to process foods quickly, yes, but there is still a risk.

Thats interesting. I have two vets that I use, one is a holistic vet so she is totally on board with raw feeding, does it herself. The other (much cheaper) vet is more "mainstream". He asked once what we were feeding because they looked so good. We told him raw and he thought it was great.....didnt mention a thing about problems associated with etc. Just wondering if maybe the vet your mom works for is out in the country or something where possible dogs are getting into roadkill, etc? Totally not doubting you, just curious as to the situation I never heard of the above happening in association with raw eating dogs compared to kibble.

[Sailor]

Originally Posted by beanma

what is the benefit of raw vs cooked?

I personally think cooked is a waste of time.

With raw food, the dogs get the most nutrients, and you don't have to exert extra effort to cook for another being.

In terms of sickness - the chance is so very slim, and it happens so very rarely, that it's not even a worry, IMO. The chances of a dog dying or getting sick in just about any other way are far greater than food issues.

I honestly don't know a single person who has had their dog get sick from feeding BARF. And I know a lot of dog people, considering I'm heavily involved in rescue.

In my experience with vets, most of them are not supportive of a raw diet. Just ignore that. I always have whenever my vet gave me dire warnings. They come up with all kinds of reasons, but honestly while I am sure they mean well, I also think vet school is sorely lacking in nutrition classes. Dogs are carnivores - they are meant to eat raw meat.

I feed my dog a modified version of the BARF diet. I feed the right percentage of meat and bones, organs, and then sometimes I give him an egg. I used to do yogurt as well, but stopped that too. I rarely do veggies as, despite my using the food processor for them, they went in the same way they went out - undigested. I love the benefits of raw - shiny coat, energy, health, awesome teeth (no teeth cleaning needed, ever), and hard, small poops that have no smell.

If you make friends with your local butcher, even one in a supermarket, you can get some GREAT deals. I get all my organs for free, as well as things like chicken necks (which I use as chew toys/treats).

[lah7]

I feed my dogs raw. I love it and wish I could get my cats on board. They're old and set in their ways, though so they just eat a grain-free kibble.

Others have covered the benefits, already, so I'll just add an "I agree!" One of my big reasons was dental health, though. Avoiding the risks and cost of dental cleanings alone was one huge for me. That, and the yard cleanup. Oh, and the food doesn't stink. If you can't tell by the trend, it's hugely beneficial to the humans, not just the dogs.

And my vet is on board with the raw, too. I'm less concerned about the idea of a parasitic/bacterial infection than I am about asking my dogs to continually consume something that their systems aren't evolved to consume. I can treat an infection but I'm not remotely convinced that even modern, allopathic veterinary medicine can begin to deal with the chronic effects of kibbled diets.

[wannabemoms]

Originally Posted by roadfamily6now

Crystal, that was wonderfully helpful! Thank you

I see you dont feed anything besides meat. I have read on a few websites to add vegies and oats, flax seed oil.....stuff like that. What is your opinion on that?

When you convert, do you suggest slow or all at once?

I was going to comment on the first part, but Ola beat me to it. We occasionally will throw in some blended up greens, but honestly, I only do it because my DW gets the heebie-jeebies about no veggies...it's a token gesture on my part. They also get some "greens" from the green tripe. But no, they don't "need" it.

I know a rescue group who has raised over 80 dogs on raw, from puppies to senior, with every possible ailment you could think of (skin, liver, kidney, bowels, etc etc), all of whom thrived. They never feed veggies or supplements of any kind. The closest thing to a "supplement" would be fatty fish, for Omega 3,6. That's it.

As for switching, just go for it, 100%. It's actually pretty hard on them to be feeding both kibble and raw (and you should NEVER feed both at the same meal, we're talking nasty fermention here).

Originally Posted by Ola_

Not just meat - that wouldn't be a balanced diet. What you need is meat, bone, and organs; those are the key components. The suggested percentages are 75-85% meat, 10-15% bone, and 5-10% organs, but I just interpret that as "lots" of meat, "some" bone, and a "little" organ meat.

Veggies are something dogs cannot digest without our help, which in my opinion means they were not meant to eat them. Grains - well, that's what most of us are trying to avoid by feeding raw. The reason they are in dry food is to bring costs down and because the machines that make kibble need a certain carb content to work. Flax seed oil is a common allergen - a better choice for dogs is fish oil which is an animal source and has the needed Omega 3 rather than Omega 6 (which they already get too much of). Any other questions?

Yeah that.

Originally Posted by kmeyrick

Cooked means no worms or food poisoning. My mother works for a vet and he deals with this a lot. Most dogs can handle raw meat just fine but you never know. They have a shorter digestive tract to process foods quickly, yes, but there is still a risk.

If you're getting your meat from a reputable source (i.e. a butcher or grocery store) and not roadkill, then odds of worms or food poison are pretty much 0. Cooking destroys important nutrients/enzymes and is a waste of time IMO.

Originally Posted by lah7

I feed my dogs raw. I love it and wish I could get my cats on board. They're old and set in their ways, though so they just eat a grain-free kibble..

There's hope for your kitties! I've been struggling to get our 16 year old princess-tortie on raw for a few months now, and FINALLY pulled it off! Her appetite has skyrocketed, she's full of beans and LOVES to eat now!! We just kept offering and offering and kind of babied her by cutting it up into tiny pieces, often hand-feeding, and sometimes giving those pre-made medallions...we also found that she sometimes would take a few bites and walk away, so we would put it back in the fridge and offer again half an hour later (you know, first breakfast, second breakfast, ). I don't know what finally made it "work" for her, but holy smokies does that grrrl love her some raw chicken now!!! I suspect her body was just working through the readjustments it needs to digest/accept the raw food properly after 16 years of sub-par nutrition.

[Ola_]

Originally Posted by beanma

what is the benefit of raw vs cooked?

Cooked is more complicated. For one, you actually have to cook it. Also, raw bones are safe to feed and digestible but cooked bones are not. However it is very important for dogs to get sufficient calcium in their diet. Since you can't feed cooked bones you have to find another way to give them calcium and figure out how much they need.

Some sources of calcium are eggshells (you'd have to save all your shells, bake them, and pulverize them into a powder). There is also bone meal powder, but you have to be very careful with that because some are very high in heavy metals or contaminated (meant for use in gardening, not food).

The other thing is that cooked diets usually include many things like vegetables, rice/potatoes/oats. Since dogs don't digest these very well it really bulks up their stool. I fed my dogs (normally raw fed) a couple of cooked carrots once and man, the amount of stuff coming out the other end was quite voluminous.

[roadfamily6now]

can I just say THANK YOU ALL!!!

Whoo Hoo! So we started the transition from Dry Kibble to Raw and so far so good. He wont stay in the kitchen to eat though and occasionally wanders around the house with a piece of meat or something in his mouth whining..... We are not sure why but assume he is looking for an appropriate place to eat it at or is afraid the cat will steal it! LOL

I have started him off with some pork and some chicken. And making friends with local butchers and looking for extra game meat from hunters and fishermen.
Getting Salmon oil here is cake.

My question right now came from my MIL. We have a pointer that is 6 months old. We would like to also use him as a bird dog when we go duck hunting. (for food for us humans) Anyway the questions is, if he gets a liking the taste of RAW food, especially fowl and poultry, do you think this will cause a problem when it comes time to go hunting? We have not done much training as far as the hunting part only the fetching part.

Any thoughts???

[Ola_]

Originally Posted by roadfamily6now

He wont stay in the kitchen to eat though and occasionally wanders around the house with a piece of meat or something in his mouth whining..... We are not sure why but assume he is looking for an appropriate place to eat it at or is afraid the cat will steal it!

When I've fed my dogs on the kitchen floor I usually use a couple of chairs or something to block their way out. I'm not keen on them carrying food around though, if you're ok with it then that's fine.

We have a pointer that is 6 months old. We would like to also use him as a bird dog when we go duck hunting. (for food for us humans) Anyway the questions is, if he gets a liking the taste of RAW food, especially fowl and poultry, do you think this will cause a problem when it comes time to go hunting?

I like to use the example of Colby the Chicken Killer when people ask this question
http://rawfed.com/colbythekiller.html

I also have a friend with two German Shorthaired Pointers that her husband hunts with. They are fed raw and no issues. Most folks believe that this would be a training issue not a feeding issue.

[wannabemoms]

Congrats on the switch!

Originally Posted by roadfamily6now

can I just say THANK YOU ALL!!!

Whoo Hoo! So we started the transition from Dry Kibble to Raw and so far so good. He wont stay in the kitchen to eat though and occasionally wanders around the house with a piece of meat or something in his mouth whining..... We are not sure why but assume he is looking for an appropriate place to eat it at or is afraid the cat will steal it! LOL

Our older dog did that at first too. The food is weird, the mechanics of eating it are different, its high-value and they don't want the cat to get it...all of that will come into play. Just stick to a routine, provide a clearly delineated space meant for eating, and he'll get the hang of it.

I have started him off with some pork and some chicken. And making friends with local butchers and looking for extra game meat from hunters and fishermen.
Getting Salmon oil here is cake.

Wish we could find a cheap/easy source of salmon oil *jealous*

My question right now came from my MIL. We have a pointer that is 6 months old. We would like to also use him as a bird dog when we go duck hunting. (for food for us humans) Anyway the questions is, if he gets a liking the taste of RAW food, especially fowl and poultry, do you think this will cause a problem when it comes time to go hunting? We have not done much training as far as the hunting part only the fetching part.

Any thoughts???

IMO this falls under the same category of "once they get a taste of fresh meat they're going to start attacking other animals as prey"...I think it's bunk. Meal time and work time are two different things, they happen at different times with different outcomes, and as long as the dog is taught what his job is, you shouldn't have a problem.

[roadfamily6now]

sweet, you guys are awesome!

Again today with the whinning......He was full and did not want anyone to steal his food. It became apparent today what he was doing. Looking for a place to hide it. Poor doggy. The cat really has him under his paw! LOL

He is a sweet dog though, awesome temperment and does not have any prossesive food issues (although it might sound like it)

oh, he is 50 pounds about and I am feeding about 2 + pounds a day right now.
he gets 1/2 at breakfast and 1/2 at night. ( which is consistent with 4% of body weight for a puppy)
He is eating bones, and meat. we have not included organ meats just yet but are looking for some sales. Not surprisingly, meat is crazy $$ here in Alaska. So when we strike a deal of $1.50 or less per pound we buy it like crazy.
Currently looking for a chest freezer.