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can i culture my bm for dd? - Page 2  

post #21 of 38
mama, I'd get some milk kefir grains and put it in raw goat's milk. It has many more probiotics. Have you tried the kombucha? GT Dave's is raw, organic kombucha. I get the unflavored.

I see that you are vegan. Have you considered bone broths for the minerals?

I've actually heard of folks using the milk kefir grains in breastmilk. My understanding is that they will culture any animal milk. I would not heat the breastmilk. I'd add a bit of some kefir to bring the ph down more quickly. But, *I* would definitely try that.

Are you doing any vitamin supplementation for her directly? Zinc, vit C, Magnesium, B vitmains come to mind. The other thing to consider is more fats. I know the CLO is scary. What about flax seed oil, coconut oil, palm oil, butter, ghee, olive oil? She probably needs more fat than your milk has at this age.

The other thing difficult to balance is the degree of reaction to your intervention. If she is restless, cranky, wakening, I wouldn't pull that food, I'd rotate it. If she has green mucusy poop, inflamed skin, I'd pull it and retrial in a month. Did you all see a homeopath for her yet? Also, she is not on any antacids, correct?

Have you tried citrus? (I can't see your sig line list) Lemon will help with the body's alkalinity, and thus with protein digestion and nutrient absorption.

Is she taking any water by mouth? I'd use mineral water.

Which green vegetables have you tried directly? What about kale, collards, Swiss Chard, Romaine lettuce, beet greens, cucumber, celery, spinach, watercress, parsley, bock choy, cabbage, asparagus, wheat grass, alfalfa sprouts, Steamed or raw? Steamed or well cooked vegetables help to break down the proteins. Green juices have all the amino acids already broken down for protein assimilation. So, if there is a chance you had a few green vegetables and fruits to try in a juice, you might be amazed at the benefit. I don't flinch at irritability or hyper reactions. My priority is usable protein and fats. It is a balance. There are tons of B vitamins in it.

Another possibility is Weston Price's homemade formula. Have you tried liver? I thought I remembered that you might have? There are many types: chicken, turkey, beef, calf, lamb. Each has different tastes and textures. He has a non-dairy formula: http://www.westonaprice.org/children/recipes.html The FAQ's page helps to identify nutrients and sources to consider. http://www.westonaprice.org/children/formula-faqs.html

Have you tried any of the elemental formulas? They all have corn or soy, though. Although, maybe?


Pat
post #22 of 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by ellasmama2007 View Post


thank you so much, im really looking forward to trying this! my probiotics are pretty strong but only contain two strains unfortunately. she just doesnt seem to tolerate any of the others that ive tried (even without fos/inulin).
i can eat sweet potatoes, broccoli, cauliflower, spinach, banana, avocado, red bell pepper, walnuts, pumpkin seeds, beets, cukes, cherries, raisins, strawberries, grapes, fennel and cranberries. i think she can drink goat milk kefir, but im not sure. i can drink water kefir.
I can't imagine she's sensitive to salicylates if she tolerates grapes & strawberries, but she might have problems with other phenols (something's causing reactions to spices, and they all have lots of phenols). You might also look into sensitivity to sulfur-containing foods & oxalates...I know all whole grains are pretty high in oxalates. http://www.canarys-eye-view.org/chal...lfurfoods.html
post #23 of 38
Thread Starter 
i am so sorry i missed these two posts, dds been so sick i just missed them entirely. thank you so much for your responses!

Quote:
Originally Posted by WuWei View Post
mama, I'd get some milk kefir grains and put it in raw goat's milk. It has many more probiotics. Have you tried the kombucha? GT Dave's is raw, organic kombucha. I get the unflavored.
i didnt try kombucha for dd because i didnt think she would tolerate it. i am not drinking it because im still bf and didnt want to flood her with mobilized toxins. also, i cant find gt daves near me unfortunately.
I see that you are vegan. Have you considered bone broths for the minerals?
im only vegan because dd doesnt seem to tolerate animal proteins. normally i would eat free range poultry and eggs at least. she seems ok with me rotating in pork and buffalo intermittently, so i tried pork bone broth and she reacted. i think its because i couldnt find pasture-fed pork bones. i wish i could find pasture-fed buff bones.

I've actually heard of folks using the milk kefir grains in breastmilk. My understanding is that they will culture any animal milk. I would not heat the breastmilk. I'd add a bit of some kefir to bring the ph down more quickly. But, *I* would definitely try that.
i tried putting a bit of goat kefir in some bm and letting it sit on the counter for 8 hours and i think it smells like kefir and not sour milk, so i might continue trying that.

Are you doing any vitamin supplementation for her directly? Zinc, vit C, Magnesium, B vitmains come to mind. The other thing to consider is more fats. I know the CLO is scary. What about flax seed oil, coconut oil, palm oil, butter, ghee, olive oil? She probably needs more fat than your milk has at this age.
i didnt know that she needed more fat than my bm . she reacts to flax, co, ghee in bm. crystal testing said no twice and yes twice to evoo for dd directly. i supp her with vit c and i bought zinc but am not sure how much. she reacts to kirkmans multi.
The other thing difficult to balance is the degree of reaction to your intervention. If she is restless, cranky, wakening, I wouldn't pull that food, I'd rotate it. If she has green mucusy poop, inflamed skin, I'd pull it and retrial in a month. Did you all see a homeopath for her yet? Also, she is not on any antacids, correct?

no antacids. the nd was amazing and gave her a remedy (cal carb) which makes her really tantrummy but ive been givin it to her anyway. i agree with you on rotating in the "lesser" reactors. im just starting to do that this past week.

Have you tried citrus? (I can't see your sig line list) Lemon will help with the body's alkalinity, and thus with protein digestion and nutrient absorption.
she used to always react badly to citrus so i havent tried in a while but would really like to. i keep reading about the benefits of lemon and alkalinity (in css thread).

Is she taking any water by mouth? I'd use mineral water.
ive been giving her brita water. do you buy mineral water from the store. do you drink it instead of any other water? i tried it once and thought she reacted but hopefully i was hallucinating and it was something else.

Which green vegetables have you tried directly? What about kale, collards, Swiss Chard, Romaine lettuce, beet greens, cucumber, celery, spinach, watercress, parsley, bock choy, cabbage, asparagus, wheat grass, alfalfa sprouts, Steamed or raw? Steamed or well cooked vegetables help to break down the proteins. Green juices have all the amino acids already broken down for protein assimilation. So, if there is a chance you had a few green vegetables and fruits to try in a juice, you might be amazed at the benefit. I don't flinch at irritability or hyper reactions. My priority is usable protein and fats. It is a balance. There are tons of B vitamins in it.
im sure there are tons of threads with this, but do you mind giving me an example of a green juice you make? ive fed her a handful of these vegs cooked and had different types of reactions, but im so over over-analyzing everything now. shes been so tantrummy lately with teething, reactions and now bein sicky that im just going to not flinch at the irritability or hyper reactions either

Another possibility is Weston Price's homemade formula. Have you tried liver? I thought I remembered that you might have? There are many types: chicken, turkey, beef, calf, lamb. Each has different tastes and textures. He has a non-dairy formula: http://www.westonaprice.org/children/recipes.html The FAQ's page helps to identify nutrients and sources to consider. http://www.westonaprice.org/children/formula-faqs.html

thank you for these links! i havent tried liver, i was considering finding grass-fed sources to avoid toxins. i had looked at wap homemade formula before, but felt overwhelmed with the allergen possibilities.

Have you tried any of the elemental formulas? They all have corn or soy, though. Although, maybe?
weve tried all of the elementals and i think corn is the prob with those. weve tried repeatedly just to add to the bf.

Pat
post #24 of 38
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by caedmyn View Post
I can't imagine she's sensitive to salicylates if she tolerates grapes & strawberries, but she might have problems with other phenols (something's causing reactions to spices, and they all have lots of phenols). You might also look into sensitivity to sulfur-containing foods & oxalates...I know all whole grains are pretty high in oxalates. http://www.canarys-eye-view.org/chal...lfurfoods.html
ive looked into oxalates and my urine oat was high for them but i cant elim them since they comprise so many of our safe foods. i am taking probiotics specifically made to eat them up though (lacto duo and vsl#3). im only just looking into phenols (im guessing quercetin is a prob for us), and i havent looked into sufurs yet.
post #25 of 38
You can order GT Dave's or make the kombucha. It is about the same process as making the water kefir, just sits longer. Has different probiotics. You can start with just 1/2 ounce. The benefits outweigh the detox risk, imo.

You really need to try the green juices. It has complete amino acids, many of the essential B-vitamins for opening detox pathways. It sounds like she is an under-methalator with a high histamine response. http://www.enzymestuff.com/methylation.htm Epsom salts will be very important.

I'm adding a pinch of Epsom salt to our water, every time. Mineral water is bought as "Mineral Water" at the grocery or HFS. It often has sulfate, like Epsom salts. Basically, our water is too purified. We need the micro-nutrients in traditional water sources. You've heard of "healing water springs". That is where the water comes from.

I found a list of "best" mineral water brands some time ago, when I researched this. The few I recall and can find locally are S. Pellegrino, Apollinaris, Perrier, Vichy. Here is a link about different mineral water sources and how to "make your own mineral water". http://www.scientificpsychic.com/hea...ral-water.html

You'd need more methyl sources, which are animal and meat. However, it sounds like you are reacting to the corn-fed animals. Paradoxically, I believe the high histamine is the cause of the "over-flowing bucket", when the corn is added. But, the meat itself, isn't the issue, I believe. Meat choices are relevant, as is choosing alkaline forming foods, such as the citrus. This recent post has a few more links about alkaline foods. http://www.mothering.com/discussions...s#post13191993

The vitamins and minerals: calcium, folate, B6, magnesium, B12 and zinc and molybdenum are important. Other food choices are listed in that last link. I don't believe that the meat is an issue, directly, unless there is copper excess and zinc deficiency. I'm sketchy on this part, still trying to tease out the opposing issues.

I'd try local, free range eggs, if they are not IgE. And find a local, free range chicken source for bone broth. The commercial organic chicken is fed GMO-soy, predominately. I'd try to have more 'tolerance' for the intolerance reactions. But, the key is adding in those vitamins and minerals to allow the sulfur to be broken down. Epsom salts is key, imo.

What about lamb? I'm not a lamb eater, but...

What type of reaction does she have to animal proteins? I'm believing it is because of a lack of necessary B6 and B12 and folate which is causing the reaction. Kefir has B-vitamins. This link is about nutrient dense vitamin and mineral sources: http://heal-thyself.ning.com/forum/t...nt-dense-foods

And the vit C!!

What about sunflower oil, safflower oil? I'd even maybe try canola oil. Try to get organic canola, though. I'd try the EVOO for her directly. And maybe even the CO directly. I wouldn't worry about raw, any fats will help, I believe.

Personally, I'm not comfortable trying to culture breastmilk with a yogurt. There are not enough 'good bacteria' in the yogurt or commercial kefir to keep other pathogens from growing, imo. Kefir grains are different. RAW milk is different. Which oviously, breastmilk is a raw milk. But, the probiotics in kefir grains are different than commercial kefir. Many more symbiotic probiotics in balance.

How often, what dose is her remedy?

Yes, I'd try the citrus, after adding the folate and B-vitamin sources. Kefir, green juice, liver?

Green juice is easy. Mineral water, plus a fruit, blend with baby greens, in a standard blender. Or use a juicer to extract the juice from dark, leafy greens (optimal). Throw in some lemon juice. We bought ours at a consignment store. $16 for a $90 machine. My friend bought hers off Craig's list, same huge discount! Variety is the key, rotation is the key.

We found 100 % grass-fed beef liver locally. Hope you can too.

Pat
post #26 of 38
I've read most of your thread (not Pat's replies, as I'm on my countdown to actually do something productive today ). I remembered seeing something about breastmilk yogurt in the Breastfeeding forum way back when.... So I went and found it and they linked to this article on kellymom.
post #27 of 38
Yes, one could heat the breastmilk and use traditional yogurt starter, or some yogurt from another source (goat's milk yogurt). But, that sorta defeats the benefits of breastmilk, specifically the bifido bacteria.


Pat
post #28 of 38
Thread Starter 
pat, you're such a wealth of knowlege, really and truly. thank you so much i have to ummm...digest everything you recommended:.
her dosage is 2 tiny pellet of calcea carbanica (sp?) once per day. she also has a tea that my nd made for her, but im having a really rough time getting the pellet water in her so im waiting on the tea. she doesnt really want to eat much right now either, so trying anything new now is tough. she wont take her vits and even eating her solids is getting harder.
i understand your warning about culturing the bm without grains and i think ill stay clear of that for now.
post #29 of 38
Trust. Let her eat/nurse what she knows she needs. What about zinc? It helps to increase appetite.


Pat
post #30 of 38
Thread Starter 
i have zinc for her and i was trying to give it to her, but she clearly shows me that she does not want to take it ( i try mixing the powder with a little gripe water that she tolerates). right now she doesnt want to take anything at all. im hoping it is just this bug running its course and that her appetite will improve. i know it would help if i had yummy things to offer her - she has every right to be sick of the sweet potatoes, bananas and goat milk kefir.
i think too that she just doesnt trust anything im offering her now, since lately ive been encouraging more vits and remedies which she seems to think taste horrible.
i know that you follow the consensual living and i was just wondering what you do when dc wont take something like a homeopathic remedy that you believe they need? i would never force her, but i keep trying and trying to gently encourage her.
post #31 of 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by ellasmama2007 View Post
i have zinc for her and i was trying to give it to her.

<snip>
i know that you follow the consensual living and i was just wondering what you do when dc wont take something like a homeopathic remedy that you believe they need? i would never force her, but i keep trying and trying to gently encourage her.
Look for children's cough drops. There are chewable ones. Most have zinc in them, nowadays. Just give several over the course of the day to increase her doses. You can read more about various amino acids, vitamins and minerals in the whole foods to try: http://heal-thyself.ning.com/forum/t...age=2#comments

A "buffet" of options helps to take the pressure off, especially when a child is focused on autonomy development. Maybe add a small selection of a few different foods. The more colorful the more appealing. Trust.

And I don't force it. I do disguise nutrients in other delicious ways. Your options are much more limited, at the moment. But, different cups, different presentation, make it a game, play with the food!! Tea cups, picnic, special utensils, use chop sticks, BIG forks, tiny spoons, eat under a tree, feed it to each other, use fancy glasses, make it different shapes, finger food sized, let her help to prepare it, tea party with the stuffed animals, picnic with the cats, eat in the car, the tub, in front of the tv, wherever she is happy and absorbed, add chocolate to it, etc.

And you can just place the homeopathic in her mouth while she is asleep, if she doesn't seem to like the taste of it. It just needs to touch inside her mouth. It doesn't have to stay in and dissolve the whole way. I wouldn't KEEP offering water that has the remedy after she has HAD A SIP. That would be considered repeated dosing. Which if you've been doing, could be suppressing her appetite. Remember dannic who kept dosing again and again, seemed to have a proving? So, after ONE SIP, she received the dose. Toss the rest.

Does that make sense?


Pat
post #32 of 38
Thread Starter 
oh, i had no idea about that! my nd told me that i could dilute the pellets in her sippy and let her sip on it, i had no idea that would be repeat dosing. ( i just googled "proving", i didnt read dannics posts about that). maybe that is decreasing her appetite!
its really a great idea to put the pellets in her mouth when she is asleep though, ill have to try that when her coughing gets a little better ( shes been coughing and coughing as soon as she lays down to sleep, poor ella)

eta: oh, and i suddenly feel like having a green smoothie for lunch
post #33 of 38
Ellasmom,
I would just get a dropper bottle and put her remedy in there with water. Then you can just give her a dropperful each day. Most kids love taking things from the pipette. Alternatively you could put the dropper in her mouth after she is asleep. As Pat said, all it needs to do is touch her mouth/tongue.
post #34 of 38
Thread Starter 
thats a big relief for me, i wont be so worried about her getting every drop of it now! dd is wise to my droppers now though
post #35 of 38
Thread Starter 
http://www.realsalt.com/images/realsalt_analysis.pdf

pat, do you think i could use this salt in dds water? i havent been able to find an epsom salt that says that it is ok for consumption and i really want to get dd going with her detox pathways!
post #36 of 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by ellasmama2007 View Post
http://www.realsalt.com/images/realsalt_analysis.pdf

pat, do you think i could use this salt in dds water? i havent been able to find an Epsom salt that says that it is ok for consumption and i really want to get dd going with her detox pathways!
We got the Epsom salts from local CVS pharmacy. I'll go look at the bag. It is just plain ole' Epsom salts. I don't know if there are "brands"; it has been around for always. It can be used as a soak, a laxative (internal ingestion), or for gardening.

Caution use with pregnancy! And it can be overdosed. But, a pinch in water is a small amount. Check the back of the bag for dosing for children. There is much more magnesium sulfate in the Epsom salts than in "Real Salt". You won't get the same benefits from Real Salt as Epsom salts. They are different products, with similar type names.

The Real Salt is fine for extra micro-nutrients. I've heard (and use) Celtic Sea Salt is the "best" salt. http://www.celticseasalt.com/Celtic_...-_L_P763C8.cfm Btw, that is about 1/3 the retail price!!


Pat
post #37 of 38
Thread Starter 
thank you so much for holding my hand and showing me the ways, pat. it means so much.
the reason i wanted to know about the right epsom salt is because i give dd epsom baths every night and a couple times she swallowed the tiniest little sips and wound up with loose stools. ill go to the store tomorrow when my mom can watch dd for me and check out the goods.
i also wanted to tell you that her appetite for solids was so much better today and she took her remedy really easily.
post #38 of 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by ellasmama2007 View Post
thank you so much for holding my hand and showing me the ways, pat. it means so much.
the reason i wanted to know about the right epsom salt is because i give dd epsom baths every night and a couple times she swallowed the tiniest little sips and wound up with loose stools. ill go to the store tomorrow when my mom can watch dd for me and check out the goods.
i also wanted to tell you that her appetite for solids was so much better today and she took her remedy really easily.
If you do the baths every day, I don't know if you need more magnesium sulfate. If her stools are loose, you've hit maximum. Either route is terrific!

Yeah on eating!!

Pat
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