This is Insane!

[JTA Mom]

http://www.nydailynews.com/money/200...six_figur.html

I just read this article about how much a New Yorker must make in order to live a middle class life. I really think it's about time that the true erosion of the middle class made the news. I live in a high COL place, but this is really insane!

Among the findings:

*
A New Yorker would have to make $123,322 a year to have the same standard of living as someone making $50,000 in Houston.
*
In Manhattan, a $60,000 salary is equivalent to someone making $26,092 in Atlanta.
*
You knew it was expensive to live in Manhattan, but Queens? The report tagged Queens the fifth most expensive urban area in the country.
*
The average monthly rent in New York is $2,801, 53% higher than San Francisco, the second most expensive city in the country.

Ami

[cravenab00]

$2800 for rent!!!!!!???????????

(faints)

i pay $525 rent for my newly remodeled 1800 square foot 4 bedroom house on a half acre.

is it really worth living in a place like that with rent so high?

[cristeen]

Originally Posted by cravenab00

$2800 for rent!!!!!!???????????

Yup.

Here in the bay area, a 1 br apt in a decent neighborhood with no yard can go for $1200. In SF proper, a studio with shared bathroom can be $2000. Which is why most students will have 5 or 6 roommates.

[choli]

Originally Posted by cravenab00

$2800 for rent!!!!!!???????????

(faints)

i pay $525 rent for my newly remodeled 1800 square foot 4 bedroom house on a half acre.

is it really worth living in a place like that with rent so high?

Yes, it is. My years living in New York were a wonderful experience that I will never regret.

[holyhelianthus]

Originally Posted by cravenab00

$2800 for rent!!!!!!???????????

(faints)

i pay $525 rent for my newly remodeled 1800 square foot 4 bedroom house on a half acre.

is it really worth living in a place like that with rent so high?

Are you kidding me???!!!! We are paying close to $1,000 here for our small 2 bedroom.

ETA: and if we lived in the "nice" part of town it'd be way more than that.

[tinybutterfly]

How is this the erosion of the middle class?

It's NYC...it is EXPENSIVE to live there. It's expensive to live in cities on the coasts.

But if someone really loves it there, then it is worth it to them.

[msjd123]

Originally Posted by magstphil

Are you kidding me???!!!! We are paying close to $1,000 here for our small 2 bedroom.

ETA: and if we lived in the "nice" part of town it'd be way more than that.

That's comparable to the great Los Angeles area. Our neighborhood is pretty ordinary as far as middle-class areas go, and there are currently 2 houses for rent on our street. Both are around 1600 sq. feet, 3 bedrooms/2 baths, and have fairly ho-hum interiors with small backyards. They're both available for $2500 and $2600 a month. That's cheap compared to living in nicer areas closer to the coast.

[Purple Sage]

We lived on Long Island, about an hour's train ride into Manhattan, and the rent on our tiny 2 bedroom house that was over 100 years old and had severe plumbing issues cost $1400/month. And that was considered cheap.

We're now renting a house almost twice the size and in much better condition for $150 less per month. So glad we left NY.

[Ruthiegirl]

The New Yorkers I know love New York...love it every way possible and couldn't imagine living anywhere else.

I know cities that I love and would pay a fortune to live there. There is something about the right city for the right person, it just sets your soul on fire to live somewhere you love.

[vm9799]

Originally Posted by Ruthiegirl

The New Yorkers I know love New York...love it every way possible and couldn't imagine living anywhere else.

I know cities that I love and would pay a fortune to live there. There is something about the right city for the right person, it just sets your soul on fire to live somewhere you love.

:

it has always been my dream to live in manhattan (a designer's dream!) and once the kids are gone off to college, dh and i are planning to do just that. i'm more than happy to chuck the house, the cars and the stuff and live someplace that moves me. i plan to enroll back into school for my masters degree at either parsons or fit and live my dream! and we'll be roughly 44 when we do it!

ETA: of course, plans could change a tad between now and then (that's roughly 9 years away), but for now that's the plan!

[holyhelianthus]

Originally Posted by msjd123

That's comparable to the great Los Angeles area. Our neighborhood is pretty ordinary as far as middle-class areas go, and there are currently 2 houses for rent on our street. Both are around 1600 sq. feet, 3 bedrooms/2 baths, and have fairly ho-hum interiors with small backyards. They're both available for $2500 and $2600 a month. That's cheap compared to living in nicer areas closer to the coast.

That's what houses go for rent around here, too. Then again we're not all that far a part (I'm in the Palm Springs area).

[Minerva]

THings are expensive in New Work, and worse elsewhere in the world.

Before he got divorced and moved to DC, my BIL and his now-ex wife were paying over $2000 a month for a one bedroom in NY. The ex-wife moved to London and was paying (in US dollars) $3500 a month for a two bedroom -- split with one housemate. She just came back to the States, I suspect because she couldn't afford to keep up the other place.

We're in the poor side of town of a wealthy neighbourhood near Chicago. For what we pay in mortgage for our three bedroom house, we could get a lot more house and/or land by moving to the Dallas/Fort Worth area. But you need to go where the work is, and there's nothing for the husband to do regularly at that office.

[choli]

Originally Posted by Ruthiegirl

The New Yorkers I know love New York...love it every way possible and couldn't imagine living anywhere else.

I know cities that I love and would pay a fortune to live there. There is something about the right city for the right person, it just sets your soul on fire to live somewhere you love.

That, and salaries are much higher in New York than in places with lower COL. Otherwise nobody could afford to live in NY

[_betsy_]

Salaries are higher, but not THAT much higher than other places. I work for a large corporation and there are people doing my exact same job in hundreds of other cities around the country, and I know that my salary is higher than most for the same job due to cost of living, but it's probably around $5,000 more than others make across the nation.

It's crazy expensive to live in the NYC suburbs, too. We live in a small 2 bedroom condo, in a "cheap" condo complex in a "cheap" tax town. My FT salary brings in less than mortgage, condo fees and taxes are each month. So, yeah, it's pricey, and no, I could never live her alone. You basically MUST be partnered/have a roommate in order to afford housing.

[Sierra]

In some areas, salaries don't keep up with housing. In New England it is like that, big city or small. Salaries are higher than other areas of the country, but not *that* much higher.

[Juvysen]

It *is* expensive in NY, no question, but you have to keep in mind that you don't really need a car to live there, so there's a decent chunk right there. I mean, we live in a very low col area but we both have to have cars or one of us has to stay home at all times, basically, so there's trade offs that way. What really shocks me is people who live in westchester county who pay obscene amounts for their home, but sorta need to own a car, too...

ETA... I'm not trying to say that it's not still expensive, but it's somewhat less than it looks b/c there's good mass transit/walkable-ness...

[staceychev]

Ha! No wonder we felt poor. We were only making about 75K!

Anyway, I agree: salaries aren't that much higher than other areas on the east coast. I made 45K a year in the tech industry there, and when I switched to teaching in 2003, started at 39K a year. I lived in Astoria, Queens, by the way, and paid $1350 for a good sized 1BR apartment. We moved from a teeny 1 BR, 7th floor walkup in Manhattan that we were paying $1900 for.

Yep, we have a lot of discussions about the value of our NYC years now that we're paying off debt Dave Ramsey style. I think there are a lot of things we'd do differently, but we wouldn't trade those years for anything.

[choli]

Originally Posted by staceychev

Ha! No wonder we felt poor. We were only making about 75K!

Anyway, I agree: salaries aren't that much higher than other areas on the east coast. I made 45K a year in the tech industry there, and when I switched to teaching in 2003, started at 39K a year. I lived in Astoria, Queens, by the way, and paid $1350 for a good sized 1BR apartment. We moved from a teeny 1 BR, 7th floor walkup in Manhattan that we were paying $1900 for.

Yep, we have a lot of discussions about the value of our NYC years now that we're paying off debt Dave Ramsey style. I think there are a lot of things we'd do differently, but we wouldn't trade those years for anything.

I lived in Sunnyside, and I did always have roommates. There is no way I could have lived there, earning what I did as a recent immigrant, without roommates. But it was totally worth it.

[JTA Mom]

Originally Posted by tinybutterfly

How is this the erosion of the middle class?

It's NYC...it is EXPENSIVE to live there. It's expensive to live in cities on the coasts.

But if someone really loves it there, then it is worth it to them.

Because it shouldn't take an upper class salary to live a middle class lifestyle in the NY (aka Queens), kwim? It shouldn't take 2.5 times the salary to live the same lifestyle in NY as in Dallas (50k vs. 123k). I can understand things being more expensive, but seriously, 2.5 times as expensive? And NY is an extremely populated place. If MOST of the people there can't make a middle class lifestyle, then that shows a problem.

Yes, it's more expensive on the coasts, but that's also were most of the people are. If most of the people on the more populated areas can't scrape by on an average middle class income, then that speaks to erosion for me.

Ami

[lolar2]

And it isn't just a question of loving it there. What if your whole family is there, and has been for a century? You have the choice of either a low standard of living, or moving away from your family. Not a great choice.