Pertussis - does the vax really work?

[monocyte]

Guess the title says it all...

wondering if the dpt really does prevent pertussis...or are there breakthrough cases.

Links would be greatly appreciated!

[carriebft]

The is vaccine failure in the case of the P portion, but I, IMO, it's pretty effective and studies demonstrate that, when you DO get pertussis and have had the vaccine, the disease is shorter and less severe. That is why I feel it is a good vaccine to get (along with the reasons for D, but speaking specifically of the P portion here). (I also am assuming you mean DTaP?)

[monocyte]

Originally Posted by carriebft

The is vaccine failure in the case of the P portion, but I, IMO, it's pretty effective and studies demonstrate that, when you DO get pertussis and have had the vaccine, the disease is shorter and less severe. That is why I feel it is a good vaccine to get (along with the reasons for D, but speaking specifically of the P portion here). (I also am assuming you mean DTaP?)

Yes, DTaP....both my boys have gotten some of it as I felt the P part was important to me, and low and behold, they've both had a failure significant exposure. And now my oldest is experiencing symptoms, but I'm not sure if its fall out post flu/pneumonia that he might have just been unlucky enough to catch another virus, or...could it be pertussis.

Over the 2 weeks (once he got past the flu/pneumonia) he's just had general cold symptoms, and a lingering cough. The past few days have been a bit different, more of a hard cough, persistent fever of about 100 or so, and he's been close to vomiting after an episode of coughing.

But, now that I found out that an adult just tested pos, I'm starting to wonder if he just might - the direct contact was about 2 weeks ago.

Could totally be overreading his symptoms and the time frame, but, sigh...

[Lazy Gardens]

Originally Posted by monocyte

Guess the title says it all...
wondering if the dpt really does prevent pertussis...or are there breakthrough cases.
Links would be greatly appreciated!

Yes ... although having fully immunized older family members is also important. If the parents and older siblings are immune, the baby is safer. Bordetella is a @#$%@#$ of a bacteria to immunize against for technical reasons.

http://www.wpro.who.int/NR/rdonlyres...s_DTP3_big.jpg

Compares cases versus vaccine coverage.

http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwr...s/r704a1f2.gif
Pertussis cases from 1920s on ... notice the decrease after the vaccine, although with the baby boom of the late 1940s and 1950s, you would have expected a huge increase.

[runes]

Originally Posted by Lazy Gardens

Yes ... although having fully immunized older family members is also important. If the parents and older siblings are immune, the baby is safer. Bordetella is a @#$%@#$ of a bacteria to immunize against for technical reasons.

http://www.wpro.who.int/NR/rdonlyres...s_DTP3_big.jpg

Compares cases versus vaccine coverage.

http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwr...s/r704a1f2.gif
Pertussis cases from 1920s on ... notice the decrease after the vaccine, although with the baby boom of the late 1940s and 1950s, you would have expected a huge increase.

The vaccine does not prevent transmission, so your first statement of vaccinating older siblings and parents for the baby's safety is erroneous.

Here is some helpful info about pertussis.

[Super Glue Mommy]

me, my ds1, and dd all got whooping cough when ds2 was a few months old. (DS1 vaxxed FULLY for this, dd I believe was fully vaxxed for this at the time she got it.... DS2, the baby, was never vaccinated against it) well, we all got SUPER sick... but DS2 just got a little cold and an ear infection. he got sick after all of us and better before we all did too... just my experience.

ds2 who was up to date on vaccines at the time got it the worst, but I think that is because he was the one who "brought it home" dd had a mild case, but I suspect her immune system is a little stronger because it hasnt been bombarded with vaccines (she was vaxxed on schedule until 1 year, then had the measles vax at 18 months) and DS2 was being breastfed so, its not really fair to compare in that sense, but if I wasn't factoring the "differences" the way the CDC doesnt factor them in, then in my family, it would seem this vaccine makes you more likely to get P and the more doses you have the worse the case lol...

[Sileree]

Originally Posted by Lazy Gardens

Pertussis cases from 1920s on ... notice the decrease after the vaccine, although with the baby boom of the late 1940s and 1950s, you would have expected a huge increase.

There are between 800,000 to 3 million cases of pertussis a year according to serological testing studies. A pubmed article has been posted here often, I think by mamakay. By Cherry et al. I can try to post it later.

[carriebft]

When looking for pertussis information, I look to this article a lot because it has tons of studies linked at the bottom. So It has helped me find a lot of information on the subject. The thread about pertussis transmission in the archive is also useful.

http://www.journals.uchicago.edu/doi...91?cookieSet=1

http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=998940

[mamakay]

Originally Posted by monocyte

Guess the title says it all...

wondering if the dpt really does prevent pertussis...or are there breakthrough cases.

Links would be greatly appreciated!

With pertussis, it depends on how you're defining "works". As a general rule, the vaccinated apparently do still catch pertussis, but the cough isn't as bad and doesn't last as long.

It's like..."pertussis: the bacteria"....the vax doesn't prevent infection with that.

But, "pertussis: the clinical disease" is defined by a set of symptoms that go along with the bacteria, like coughing for at least 6 weeks, etc. The vax DOES prevent that most of the time.

So hopefully if you guys do have pertussis, maybe they'll only cough for a couple of weeks and not a couple of months.

[Super Glue Mommy]

guess the vaccine didnt work for my kids then. we were sick for MONTHS. very nasty thing to catch. coughing till we threw up sometimes. (it was kind of wavering though, but mostly horrible) I guess my 2 kids who were upt to date on DTaP at the time fell into the "less of the time" population...

[mamakay]

Yeah, it completely fails sometimes, too.

[Super Glue Mommy]

yea, its not about the individuals its about the herd. I understand that. I just feel my first 2 would have been more protected by it if I was still breastfeeding and they hadnt gotten the vaccine. I am thankful the baby didnt catch it, but it seems my family is immune to vaccines lol (except when they want to cause nuerological life long damage ). they got rotavirus right after my daughter was vaccinated for it. (wasnt a big deal, not sure why I vaccinated for it, probably because I hadnt read anything at the time)

[guestmama9920]

would anyone get the single vax for it?

[mamakay]

There is no single vax for it.

[ZoeyZoo]

I'm a non-vaxer so that this for what it's worth but I recently has pertussis and I have a non-vaxed baby in the house (she was about 7 months when I realized what I had).

I was fully vfaxed as a child and even had the DTAP booster a few years ago before finding MDC. I still have the cought 2 months later. The cough, the whoop, and a little bit of a runny nose are all my symptoms. I have a decently strong immunie system being the only one in my office not to get any of the flu/colds each year.

I am past the contagious period and we should be past the incubation period and the baby still has not gotten it.

I personally do not believe it really does much. I wouldn't get it for the herd immunity argument either since it does not prevent transmission. I don't understand how something can help with herd immunity while not preventing sickness or transmission.

[Spectrolite]

Carriebft,

Can you re-post that link
http://www.journals.uchicago.edu/doi...91?cookieSet=1
?
I tried going there but it gave me an error page.
Thanks

And hello all, this is my 1st post.... My head is spinning with late night sessions (and on and off daytime sessions too) on MDC trying to get info on vaxing. Still on the fence... Dd is 5 months and is still pure on in the inside --and I love it. But I'm still iffy. This is SO HARD. We are taking a trip between the US and Europe in a few months and the fact that we'll be around so many different unhealthy people (at airports, in the planes, in cities, etc) really really bugs me. : But maybe i'll write a separate post on all that later

[carriebft]

http://www.journals.uchicago.edu/doi...0.1086/421091?

thart should work!

[Morgana]

Originally Posted by carriebft

http://www.journals.uchicago.edu/doi...0.1086/421091?

thart should work!

I haven't had time to read the whole thing but it seems that the study is recommending using Dtap in older adolescents and adults. At the bottom of the page it lists Acknowledgements which lists "Barbara Howe (GlaxoSmithKline Vaccines)". It also lists "Financial disclosure. GlaxoSmithKline Vaccines (unrestricted educational grant)." And "Conflict of interest. All authors: No conflict." I don't know what the technical definition of conflict of interest is but it looks like a vaccine company at least partially funded the study and in my book that's a conflict of interest.

But you are right in that there's TONS on links at the bottom. Some much info...so little time...

[carriebft]

I don't keep that one bookmarked for the study itself (the actual study on teen and adult use of pertussis vax); I keep it, like I said, because it is a good collection of pertussis studies. don't read my posting of the link as an advertisment of the actual study in the body of the link; I just use it for all the stuff in the citation section. there are a lot of great ones there for both sides of the argument.

[mamakay]

Yes ... although having fully immunized older family members is also important. If the parents and older siblings are immune, the baby is safer.

I'd be really interested to see if anyone has any evidence that immunizing parents with the tdap protects infants.
I've looked through the CDC's ACIP MMWR recommendation for the Tdap (wow, that was a lot of abbreviations!) and the idea appears to be completely evidence-free.