How do I allow DS to CLW when nursing while pg hurts sooooo bad?

[because]

DD CLWed at 4.5. I nursed her all through DS's pregnancy and for 18 months afterward. It hurt during pg but somehow we managed. Probably because she was so determined to nurse even when I tried to get out of it sometimes.

DS is just 3. I'm 21 weeks pg and nursing him is total and pure physical torture. I make no milk at all and the pain is unreal. He's pretty distractable and I've put him off for about 3 days now. He still asks but I find ways out of it. I don't want to wean him yet and I'd love to tandem again, but it has become a defense mechanism because of the pain.

So, how do I bear it and nurse him when it's so easy (with *him*--it wasn't with DD) to say "no?"

[BetsyPage]

Hmmmm... how verbal is he? Can you talk to him about how you feel, that your milk is gone for now but it will come back? There is an element of practicality at play here. If it hurts and you are not nursing him, well, that is you deciding you don't want to nurse him. That's OK (but probably not considered CLW?) It seems to me that in this particular circumstance explaining things to him, and maybe saying you will let him nurse X number of times or he can ask when you sit down but see if he is open to nursing less, etc might actually prolong the nursing relationship if he doesn't feel that he is being cut off. It seems more in the spirit of CLW to see if you can come up with a routine where he can nurse on a limited basis during this period of time, given the physical circumstances you are dealing with. If you are both committed to him continuing to nurse more freely, I'm sure that will happen once your milk comes in, or even colustrum production picks up.

I have tandem nursed through pregnancy myself... I didn't have much discomfort, but I did set limits at times, when I was simply out of milk, there was only so much dry nursing I could tolerate. But given that my oldest is 5 yo and still hasn't weaned, I wouldn't say that they led to a shorter nursing relationship. But we have for many years talked about it, and if she expressed a strong need for nursing in a certain way, then I tried to accommodate it. I know that I "shaped" her nursing preferences, though, because of when and how I encouraged her to nurse. That is probably the one thing I don't get about some ideals of CLW. That mom does have input, whether it is explicit or not. I personally think it's kind of cool that for a while now my dd & I have been able to discuss it. It hasn't always been easy, but it's been worth it.

[Tjej]

There is a book "adventures in tandem nursing" that you might find insightful/helpful. I checked it out from our local library when I was expecting DS and DD was still nursing.

I had the terrible pain too. One thing you can do is limit it to a certain count (like to 5). Then each time he asks tell him you will do it to the count of 5 or so and you can count as slow or as fast as you can handle for the time.

HTH. I know it is hard.

Tjej

[SereneBabe]

I did nurse through the worst of the pain with my 5 y.o. But I only nursed in *very* short sessions and set more limits than I ever had before. Since she was old enough I explained about the chemicals making it hurt. But, as I've said in here before, it was that pain that got me actively involved in Maya's weaning process. I was really just following before with very little of my own limits involved (because I didn't feel the need, I would have set more if I felt the need, for sure!). Once I experienced this pain, I said "no" a LOT. And I mean a LOT. I think I said no so often she got the idea that there were other ways to comfort herself -- she wasn't happy about learning this, though, but she would have been more unhappy if I was resenting her for causing me pain.

[cheenya]

My DD was 3 when her brother was born, during that pregnancy nursing her hurt a lot, but one thing that helped tremendously was to focus on her latch. When I made certain her tounge was over her lower teeth, that her mouth opened as wide as possible before she latched on, and that we had a good angel, nursing was still not comfortable, but definitely bearable. Maybe this would help you? also the time limits of counting to a specific number helped, and I would count slow or fast depending on how I was feeling, but I could nurse her more happily knowing it was only for a short time.
DD is now 6 and her brother 3, I am pregnant again and they are both still nursing, for some reason I don't have a lot of pain this time around, still some discomfort, but not the pain I know I had last time. DD is definitely on her way toward weaning, the lack of milk generally keeps her from nursing now, her brother doesn't seem bothered by it. When I ask DD (rarely) if she wants num, her answer is "even if I did, there's none there because of the baby," she's ok with it though, and does still sometimes briefly want that connection, even with the lack of milk, especially at night.

[guest9955]

cheenya- i think that is so sweet what your DD says about no milk because of baby

my main concern with having a #2 would be nursing- want to do CLW with dd- but DH like the idea of close in age.... sorry one hand typing

when you guys say it hurts- can you tell me more - what hurts exactly? Letdown? nipples? contractions?

[SereneBabe]

The pain I felt was in my nipples. I don't have a lot of sensitivity in my nipples, so it was really unusually to feel SO much hurting. It felt exactly like someone was taking rough sand paper and rubbing it hard across my nipples until they were bleeding, and then they kept grinding away.

Her latch was good, but the pain was not.

[Tjej]

The pain was like what a lot of people I've heard describe as the pain of thrush in the nipple. Ground glass being rubbed in - is a metaphor that comes to mind. So unpleasant.

Tjej

[cheenya]

Originally Posted by Tjej

The pain was like what a lot of people I've heard describe as the pain of thrush in the nipple.

You know, that makes me wonder. I've been trying to figure out the difference, why my nipples were sore last time and not this time. One difference is that I'm on a very high dose of a probiotic and I'm eating a lot more probiotic foods (yogurt, kefier, raw saurkraut, raw kombucha, etc.) because I've been prone to yeast since spending 3 months on an antibiotic last summer.
I know my midwife said pregnancy makes you much more prone to yeat infections, I wonder if part of the pain for some people is a low level thrush infection? After having this thought, if I had severe nipple pain during pregnancy again, I would definitely consider starting to take mega-doses of a really good probiotic - just to see if it helped. Other than the cost, it couldn't hurt, its not the sort of thing you can overdose on. Finding a really good probiotic can be tricky though. I was amazed at the difference when I switched from one I thought was good quality to the one my friend who is a licensed naturopathic doctor recommended, and its not even much more expensive
Ok, that got rambely, time to go

[cheenya]

Originally Posted by lietuvama

cheenya- i think that is so sweet what your DD says about no milk because of baby

I think so too One of the best things about nursing her at age five was how much she could express what she thought about it.
I also found it very interesting, early in this pregnancy, she told me she could tell I was pregnant because my milk smelled different, like it had when I was pregnant with her brother, I thought it was so interesting that that was something she would notice and remember.

[AnnesMoM]

Hugs mama...Nursing while pregnant was probably the hardest thing I've ever done (much harder than childbirth!). The feelings of a child nursing when I have no milk just made me want to crawl up the wall. The only way my dd and I could get through it with my sanity and her still having "na-na's" was to let her nurse and count to 5. She'd want to nurse and I'd say "Ok, 5 seconds." This worked great for her, although I could see it not working with a child that was like my ds.

[Hokulele]

Ugh! I know that pain only too well. I was lucky (?) in that the pain was much worse in only one nipple so I told DD it was broken. She totally accepted that and would nurse on one side only, patting the other one saying "poor broken deedee" (We call nursing "deedee").

The functioning side was painful and nursing her made my skin crawl but I really really just couldn't nurse at all on the broken side. About a month later, DD weaned herself. She went from nursing (on one breast only) 5 hours a day (lots of night nursing) to nursing 10 minutes a day in one week. And then suddenly dropped it altogether. Her baby sister is 8 months now and DD1 now nurses again.

So if you can stand one side, maybe that's the way to go? My tactic was to avoid making the connection for her between my inability to nurse and the baby that was soon to arrive - I was too worried about sibling rivalry over it. But DD took the whole thing very well.