Tension Issues

[pampered_mom]

This fall I bought a vintage Singer 66 at Goodwill and took it to a local repair shop to have it tuned up - I'm thinking it was the end of September. He replaced the cords, gave me a new light, etc as well as "rebuilt upper tension". I'm trying to decide if I need to take the machine back in or what's going on is just a quirk of the machine (and the reason why it was at Goodwill).

Everything was fine and dandy as long as I was sewing just two layers of fairly lightweight fabric. Then I worked on a multi-layer project and when I went back to sew on a lighter weight two layer project the tension would be fine for awhile, slip out of tension so the top thread tension was too tight. If I tried to adjust the tension mid seam it'd be fine for awhile before it'd slip again.

At one point I think I had sewn enough that it was back to the way it was when I first used it. Of course, I elected to sew something a bit heavier weight and I'm back to the same place (slipping in and out of correct tension as you sew along) - oh and it doesn't seem to have those issues when sewing with heavier weight or multi-layer projects. I've been tolerating it since for the most part I've been working on non-clothing related pieces, but at some point I'd like to make a few articles of clothing for the kids and I'd really need a seam that stayed in the right tension the whole way.

I've checked to make sure that the bobbin is wound evenly/correctly. I'm using a high quality thread, the same one for both top and bottom. Any thoughts or do I really need to take it in again?

[lightheart]

If you trust the shop and it won't cost you any more to take the machine in, then I see no reason not to.

If you want to learn how to fix your own machine... might want to check out one of the Yahoo sewing groups, there's one vintagesingers that I know has the tension assembly diagram for the 66 in their file section, If you decide to take apart your tension and put it back together. It really isn't difficult to do.
another group to join, but some of the folks there know sewing machines inside and out and are willing to help.

Is there any gunk or lint or anything between the tension disks? Take a piece of tulle and floss between them.

[hedgewitch]

Try checking the screw on the bobbin holder - this was the issue for me once on an older machine.

Hope that you get this resolved!

[pampered_mom]

Thank you so much for both suggestions - I'd much rather try to solve the issue on my own so I'll give it a try!

[Porcelain Interior]

Tension will always have to be manually adjusted, it's not an issue of the machine being broken most of the time- but that you're changing fabric and thicknesses.

You have the little knob on the front that tightens up the discs that is your top tension control, and then you have the tiny screw on the bobbin case.

With small adjustments testing after each one you should be able to control your tension yourself.

The older machines can be a bit finicky, and I swear they get PMS.

[pampered_mom]

Originally Posted by Porcelain Interior

Tension will always have to be manually adjusted, it's not an issue of the machine being broken most of the time- but that you're changing fabric and thicknesses.

Yeah, I know you need to manually change the tension when you change fabric thicknesses, but didn't think you would need to in the middle of the seam. My problem is that I'll get tension set up before sewing the seam and then after about an inch or so of sewing the top tension will become too tight. If I sew another inch or so it'll go back to the correct tension it was. Lather, rinse, repeat. In this particular case the only thing that's changing is the top tension and I'm nowhere near the tension knob when it's happening. This doesn't happen when I'm sewing thicker pieces, only when I'm sewing a two layer project that's made of thinner fabric. Does that make sense?

I have a Singer manual so I know where the tension adjustment knobs are (and which tension needs to be adjusted by the appearance of the stitch). I've just been trying to figure out if this is normal for an older machine or if it is something that can be remedied. I've never had this issue with other machines that I've used, just this one.

[Porcelain Interior]

^Okay yes that is definitely some sort of mechanical issue!

I think there must be something wrong if your seams are going wonky in the middle of sewing something.

I know old machines are finicky, I have 4 old singers. The thinnner fabrics have caused me the most issues, but I'm afraid I don't have any helpful hints. I think you should probably take it in to be serviced.

[lightheart]

what about thread? I know you said it is good quality... but could it be coming off the spool in a weird way and somehow snagging up? Is it a cone or is it a spool of thread? Could that spool just be wound weird? Try winding a bobbin of thread and use it on the spool pin instead of the spool.

Needle... take it out, put a new one back in... sure it's in the right way?

threading... could this be it?... on the front of the machine, to the left of the tension disks, there is a little silver hook.. it has a hole in it... if you are doing regular sewing you are susposed to go under that hook thing and not through the hole... the hole is used with one of the attachments, forget which one. The piece I'm talking about would be threaded... spool of therad, acrodd the top, through the little hook, down to the tension disks, up under that little sping in the tension disksover to the left, under the hook back up and from right to left through the take up arm, down the front face of the amchine, through the thread guide, through the needle left to right.

Is the knob that you use to change tension, is it actually moving? could you be sewing along and somehow with the vibrations of the machine, that nut tightens up throwing your stitching off then somehow loosens back up, making the good stitches again? It seems odd that it would mess up then correct itself... I had an old White, different style tension but I'm remembering back that the stud bolt for the tension had a sorta worn spot and I could never get the tension to stay set becasue the nut would keep baking off.. never corrected itself though, it would just loosen up and that's where it would stay, I fixed that by making a little felt shim to use behind the tension discs that brought the thickness out just slightly so that the nut would ride on unworn bolt threads... Could this be your problem? maybe... but because it goes back to normal and there is the thing with some fabrics it doesn't get out of whack.. I don't know... maybe mark the tension knob with somethig so you know where it is set sew some then when it gets wonky sewing see if the actual knob has changed..

what about pressure on the fabric? do you make it tighter when your sewing the thin fabrics?

When you say thin fabrics, do you mean something like regular quilting cotton or are you talking something slippery and sheer like a silk?

What style needle are you using? a ball point, sharp or universal? Is it sized correctly for the thread? what about for the fabric, appropriate needle that it's piercing it nicely?

To answer your question whether this is "normal" for an older machine... I'd say no. I have not heard folks complain about their tension being all over the place, sometimes the machines are persnickery about getting the tension adjusted, but once adjusted it should be okay.

Have you taken out the bobbin and made sure there is no lint? what about the shuttle race, could there be a little something back under there is is just throwing the machine off?

Whatever you do try one thing at a time, sew for a bit and see if that fixed things or not and go with the next one your wanting to try...

[pampered_mom]

Originally Posted by lightheart

what about thread? I know you said it is good quality... but could it be coming off the spool in a weird way and somehow snagging up? Is it a cone or is it a spool of thread? Could that spool just be wound weird? Try winding a bobbin of thread and use it on the spool pin instead of the spool.

I've used both Gutterman and another fairly decent brand and have the same thing happen with both brands and multiple spools.

Originally Posted by lightheart

threading... could this be it?... on the front of the machine, to the left of the tension disks, there is a little silver hook.. it has a hole in it... if you are doing regular sewing you are susposed to go under that hook thing and not through the hole... the hole is used with one of the attachments, forget which one. The piece I'm talking about would be threaded... spool of therad, acrodd the top, through the little hook, down to the tension disks, up under that little sping in the tension disksover to the left, under the hook back up and from right to left through the take up arm, down the front face of the amchine, through the thread guide, through the needle left to right.

I can check this one off too. I've double checked it numerous times as has my mom. I've also recently double checked it by comparing the machine as I've threaded it w/the threading diagram in the Singer 66 manual. I've also double checked that the thread is between the two tension discs.

Originally Posted by lightheart

Is the knob that you use to change tension, is it actually moving? could you be sewing along and somehow with the vibrations of the machine, that nut tightens up throwing your stitching off then somehow loosens back up, making the good stitches again? It seems odd that it would mess up then correct itself... I had an old White, different style tension but I'm remembering back that the stud bolt for the tension had a sorta worn spot and I could never get the tension to stay set becasue the nut would keep baking off.. never corrected itself though, it would just loosen up and that's where it would stay, I fixed that by making a little felt shim to use behind the tension discs that brought the thickness out just slightly so that the nut would ride on unworn bolt threads... Could this be your problem? maybe... but because it goes back to normal and there is the thing with some fabrics it doesn't get out of whack.. I don't know... maybe mark the tension knob with somethig so you know where it is set sew some then when it gets wonky sewing see if the actual knob has changed..

I frequently check it while having the issue and haven't noticed that the tension knob has moved at all. I'll have to try marking it to be sure, though.

Originally Posted by lightheart

what about pressure on the fabric? do you make it tighter when your sewing the thin fabrics?

Pressure on the fabric? I'm not sure what you mean by "making it tighter".

Originally Posted by lightheart

When you say thin fabrics, do you mean something like regular quilting cotton or are you talking something slippery and sheer like a silk?

I mean a regular quilting cotton - thinner as compared to flannel or corduroy.

Originally Posted by lightheart

Needle... take it out, put a new one back in... sure it's in the right way?
:snip:
What style needle are you using? a ball point, sharp or universal? Is it sized correctly for the thread? what about for the fabric, appropriate needle that it's piercing it nicely?

I haven't taken the needle out yet. This is the one thing I haven't done. I need to pick up some new needles at the store and give it a try. It does seem to be sized correctly for the thread and is piercing the fabric nicely.

Originally Posted by lightheart

Have you taken out the bobbin and made sure there is no lint? what about the shuttle race, could there be a little something back under there is is just throwing the machine off?

Mine is a top loading bobbin so I need to read the manual again to see how to take the bobbin case out so I can check for lint better. This is another step I'll have to give a try.

Originally Posted by lightheart

To answer your question whether this is "normal" for an older machine... I'd say no. I have not heard folks complain about their tension being all over the place, sometimes the machines are persnickery about getting the tension adjusted, but once adjusted it should be okay.

This is what I figured - my mom and I had wondered perhaps if the issue was just that "grandma" was tired and cranky, but it's been frustrating. My mom's set the tension on hers probably once and hasn't touched it in all the years she's owned the machine.

If the two remaining suggestions you gave me haven't corrected the problem then I think I'll probably consider taking the tension assembly apart and reassembled. Then, if that doesn't fix it I'll probably just take it back in. He won't charge me anything to look at it and will give me an estimate before he does any work. Somedays I wish I had purchase a new machine, but know that wouldn't guarantee me an issue free machine and at least this one is all metal!

[lightheart]

Pressure on the fabric? I'm not sure what you mean by "making it tighter".

sitting in front of the machine as if you were going to sew, to the left side, at the very top of the machine there is a knob/screw it controls the amount of pressure of the bar that holds the foot. I'm guessing if you turn in clockwise it will make the pressure tighter, I may be wrong and it maybe counterclockwise... what you need to do is place the 2 layers of fabric like you are going to be sewing under your pressure foot - don't put the needle through the fabric, leave it up, then gently tug the fabric back as if it were feeding through the machine, if it just slips tight through then you need to tighten up the knob/nut up there on top increasing the amount of pressure, if you can't budge it at all then you need to loosen it up some. You want it to be grabbing ever so lightly. You can adjust this depending on what thickness of fabric you are sewing.