Don't Know What to Do

[nettieferg]

I have a 6.5 month old DD -- she has had one DTAP vax, and that was only as a compromise with our doc -- she thought that was the most useful of the ones DD *should* be having . . .

My #1 DD is fully vaxed (except: no chicken pox, no flu, no Hep A), as is my DS (no chicken pox, flu, Hep A). #1 picks up every bug around, but also had abx at 3 days of life -- and I failed in my BF with her. With #2, DS, he was fed BM for 5 months - no abx early on -- he RARELY gets sick.

So - here is my quandry - WHY is #1 DD's immune system so poor? Was it the vax, or the abx, or the lack of breastmilk? And why is DS so healthy and smart if the vax should have basically 'done him in'? -- (according to the info given me by my Bradley teacher for my new baby, DD #2) --

To clarify, I DID delay vax BOTH of my older kids, and did the MMR at 19 months, instead of 1 year.

Of more interest -- my hubby was NOT vaxed (pretty rare, for what I can find) because he was allergic to the vax ingredients --- and he NEVER catches anything - he has been sick maybe 3-4 times in the 10 years we have been together! However . . . he was breastfed for 2.5 years. (He DOES have allergies and eczema, though, even w/o the vaccines - my anti-vax lit. said this comes from vaccines)

Okay -- so what is the trick here? I am SO confused -- when I search about anti-vax, I find info that makes it sound like my kids should either be dead or be severely disabled in some way -- except that they are not. Both are on the gifted spectrum even!

I actually delayed my DD#2's 6 month well-baby visit until next month, to buy some more time to make this choice. I am seriously scared to vax her, and also scared NOT to. I saw on this board that someone's child had measles recently --- if that happens to her, I am not sure how I would handle it -- but, if something happens to her with the vax, I would feel the same.

To add in: DD#2 was born via a COMPLETELY natural VBAC (at the hospital no less! - with her sibs in attendance ) -- and has been EBF since 20 minutes of life -- I intend to breastfeed DD#2 for AT LEAST 2 years (am even considering the benefits of pumping BM for DD#1 as a retroactive immune-builder) . . . We are a vegetarian family (with some dairy -- but nothing that ever had a mommy, except the occ. egg)

If you have articles I can use to make this choice, I would REALLY appreciate it . . . I just wish I was not in this position at all, and am very scared and confused by both sides of this issue. (All the AAP has is pro-vax or your kid will die -- all the stuff from my Bradley teacher is DON'T vax, or your kid will die) -- Hubby is no help -- he says he trusts my judgment and will go with whatever I decide -- grr!

Truly, I AM suspicious of the medical field -- but also of the homeopathic field. I went to the chiro that my Bradley teacher recommended, and he tried to sell me literally $$hundreds$$ in supplements . . . I am left with this niggling feeling that EVERYBODY has an agenda --but, who has my best interests??

Please help! I have no ideas here!!! I just want to do the right thing . . .

[kfillmore]

abx?

What is abx?

I am preg. with my first and my brain is spinning.

[nettieferg]

abx = antibiotics -- and the general thought is that antibiotics damage the immune system by killing both the GOOD bacteria, along with the BAD infection bacteria . . .

My brain is STILL spinning on my 3rd! :-) (My first was a cesearean, my 2nd was a VBAC with epidural, and my 3rd was au natural! ;-) ---- with each kid, I learned a little more --- #1, I breastfed to 6 weeks -- #2, had undiagnosed tongue-tie, so I gave up, but kept pumping for 5 months --- NOW I know just how important breastfeeding is, and intend to stick with it for at least the 2 years recommended by WHO . . . it is great, by the way -- just get through the first 3 weeks!!! :-)

Good Luck! :-)

[ema-adama]

.

My only advice is to empower yourself with knowledge on the diseases, the vaccines, the immune system, what supports immune function and what undermines it and go from there.

With this decision there just in no one that I have found that I can really trust.

For the record, I do not see optimal health as never being ill, but rather having a strong immune system that can manage illness. I think there is a difference.

Good luck

[Super Glue Mommy]

Originally Posted by nettieferg

I have a 6.5 month old DD -- she has had one DTAP vax, and that was only as a compromise with our doc -- she thought that was the most useful of the ones DD *should* be having . . .

DTaP is one of the most controversial. its supposed protection is against something that legitimately needs protection against. but one of the most dangerous as far as reactions go.

My #1 DD is fully vaxed (except: no chicken pox, no flu, no Hep A), as is my DS (no chicken pox, flu, Hep A). #1 picks up every bug around, but also had abx at 3 days of life -- and I failed in my BF with her. With #2, DS, he was fed BM for 5 months - no abx early on -- he RARELY gets sick.
So - here is my quandry - WHY is #1 DD's immune system so poor? Was it the vax, or the abx, or the lack of breastmilk? And why is DS so healthy and smart if the vax should have basically 'done him in'? -- (according to the info given me by my Bradley teacher for my new baby, DD #2) --

could be a combination of those things. also vaccines will effect evey child differently. how can you expect chemicals to have the same effect on every child when each human is so very different. vaccinations wont "due a child in", it just seems, without yet being proven one way or the other, that vaccines increase the risk of things. My DD is very intelligent even though she was fully vaxxed until 1 year and then just got the measles vaccine at 18 months instead of the MMR at 15 months you can't compare children like that. you have to remember that everything said about vaccines, on both sides, talks about population as a whole. not individuals. There are children who have ASD who were never vaxxed and children who are fully vaxxed who are gifted.

Of more interest -- my hubby was NOT vaxed (pretty rare, for what I can find) because he was allergic to the vax ingredients --- and he NEVER catches anything - he has been sick maybe 3-4 times in the 10 years we have been together! However . . . he was breastfed for 2.5 years. (He DOES have allergies and eczema, though, even w/o the vaccines - my anti-vax lit. said this comes from vaccines)

eczema and allergies can be triggered and made worse by vaccines, but vaccines dont give a person those things, and not vaccinating doesnt mean a person wont get those things. It could be a combination of being breastfed and not being vaccinated, as well as him having a naturally strong immune system.

Okay -- so what is the trick here? I am SO confused -- when I search about anti-vax, I find info that makes it sound like my kids should either be dead or be severely disabled in some way -- except that they are not. Both are on the gifted spectrum even!

No they shouldn't be dead or severely disabled. this is just an increased risk then if you hadn't vaccinated. it doesn't mean it will happento your child. In my experience, its better to stay away from "anti vax" literature. I am not opposed to looking at insight from sources who challenge pro-vax things, but in general I think its best to look at pro-vax information objectively, noticing the holes and inconsistencies, and to look at studies, figure out what those numbers really mean, and consider what might happen if proper control groups had been factored in.

I actually delayed my DD#2's 6 month well-baby visit until next month, to buy some more time to make this choice. I am seriously scared to vax her, and also scared NOT to. I saw on this board that someone's child had measles recently --- if that happens to her, I am not sure how I would handle it -- but, if something happens to her with the vax, I would feel the same.

the measles are not a big deal. the reality is, you are choosing a risk either way. which one can you live with? if your child is healthy and well nourished, then the measles will be not much more then chicken pox... can you live with that? if your child ends up having a reaction to the vaccine, can you live with that? its a personal choice. you also have to remember that just because you vaccinate your child does not mean they wont get the disease they are being vaccinated against. I personally will never again risk my children for the sake of treating them for something they dont have. do you take tylenol when you don't have a headache?

To add in: DD#2 was born via a COMPLETELY natural VBAC (at the hospital no less! - with her sibs in attendance ) -- and has been EBF since 20 minutes of life -- I intend to breastfeed DD#2 for AT LEAST 2 years (am even considering the benefits of pumping BM for DD#1 as a retroactive immune-builder) . . . We are a vegetarian family (with some dairy -- but nothing that ever had a mommy, except the occ. egg)

breastfeeding is much better for the immune system then vaccines. I do not understand parents who vaccinate to protect their children, but arent even willing to try breastfeeding.

If you have articles I can use to make this choice, I would REALLY appreciate it . . . I just wish I was not in this position at all, and am very scared and confused by both sides of this issue. (All the AAP has is pro-vax or your kid will die -- all the stuff from my Bradley teacher is DON'T vax, or your kid will die) -- Hubby is no help -- he says he trusts my judgment and will go with whatever I decide -- grr!

'dont pick a side to start. just research the risk of disease versus the risk of vaccine. Look at it one disease/vaccine at a time. and don't vaccinate until you decide. you can always give the vaccine later, you can't take the vaccine back though. (wish I could for my vaccine damaged son)

Truly, I AM suspicious of the medical field -- but also of the homeopathic field. I went to the chiro that my Bradley teacher recommended, and he tried to sell me literally $$hundreds$$ in supplements . . . I am left with this niggling feeling that EVERYBODY has an agenda --but, who has my best interests??

everyone does has an agenda. you have your best interests.

Please help! I have no ideas here!!! I just want to do the right thing . . .

HUGS

[GutInstinct]

All I can tell you is that you know what to do. You do. Take a deep breath, look around you, add up the clues, and continue doing what you're doing. (Being a good mama, keeping your kids healthy, boosting their immune systems naturally).

My 14-month-old DS has not received any vaccines and is the healthiest baby I know. Has hardly ever been sick (a couple bouts of sniffles and one vomiting episode one time), has never had antibiotics, no ear infections, and is still exclusively breastfed. Very healthy, very hardy.

We don't compromise his natural immune system, and that is why he is so healthy.

Just bumped a thread for you but will post here too. Get this book. It's good!

http://www.amazon.com/Healing-New-Ch.../dp/0345494504

[Marnica]

Originally Posted by ema-adama

.

My only advice is to empower yourself with knowledge on the diseases, the vaccines, the immune system, what supports immune function and what undermines it and go from there.

With this decision there just in no one that I have found that I can really trust.

For the record, I do not see optimal health as never being ill, but rather having a strong immune system that can manage illness. I think there is a difference.

Good luck

I agree with above poster. The more you educate yourself about the disaeses and the actual risk, the more empowered you will be.
For example measles is not a death sentance and at one time was a normal childhood illness that 90% of kids had by the time they were 10 years old. Kind of like Chicken pox was when I was a kid. I know its confusing and scary, but go with your instincts.

[Emmeline II]

Your children are not born defective with vaccines supplying the remaining ingredients for health.

Not vaxing should be the default while you review each disease and vaccine to determine if it is necessary.

What do you do if your child has the measles? Same thing you do with any other illness; rest, fluids, and some SA and CLO. Your child's measles experience is more likely to be Brady Bunch than Private Practice. I think my father's first vaccine was in the Army in 1943 (he died at 83); I don't think my mom was vaxed until the flu shot became common; she said (about the M, M, R) "I had them, everyone I knew had them and no one died or had complications from them" (she was wondering why I didn't vax so I asked her about her experience with these VADs). I need to ask my sister about her experience as the measles vax was not common until she was past the typical age for it.


For an even handed treatment of the issue I recommend "Vaccinations, A Thoughfull Parents Guide" by Aviva Romm.
For keeping your dcn healthy and to treat VPDs: "Naturally Healthy Babies and Children: A Commonsense Guide to Herbal Remedies, Nutrition, and Health" by Aviva Romm and "How to Raise a Healthy Child in Spite of Your Doctor" by pediatrician Dr. Mendelsohn.

Here are some questions to answer for yourself in deciding about vax.

1. Name of the disease
2. Description of the disease
3. Length of time from initial infection to end of all symptoms
4. Infectious period
5. Normal symptoms of the disease
6. Known serious consequences of the disease
7. Proportion of persons infected developing serious consequences
8. Transmission route of the disease
9. Prevalence of the disease
10. Treatments of the disease and efficacy of those treatments
11. Relevant research about the disease
12. Name of the vaccine
13. Company that makes the vaccine
14. Contents of the vaccine
14A. The significance of whether or not the vaccine is live
15. History of development of the vaccine
16. Known side-effects of the vaccine and rate of incidence of those side-effects
17. Possible side-effects not yet acknowledged by the vaccine maker
18. Relevant research into the vaccine
19. How effective is the vaccine at preventing the disease?
20.What is the vaccine meant to do? (Many vaccines are not meant to prevent infection or transmission).
21.Number of cases reported each year.
22.Number of deaths reported each year from the vaccine and natural disease.

Here are some sources to help you out:

Inside Vaccines

http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/mmwr_wk.html (download the current issue)
http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/pin...k-chapters.htm
http://vaers.hhs.gov/pdf/PackageInserts.pdf
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...40451107552&q=
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...87981735&hl=en
http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/pin...ses&deaths.pdf

[SunshineJ]

Originally Posted by nettieferg

So - here is my quandry - WHY is #1 DD's immune system so poor? Was it the vax, or the abx, or the lack of breastmilk? And why is DS so healthy and smart if the vax should have basically 'done him in'? -- (according to the info given me by my Bradley teacher for my new baby, DD #2) --

Here's the thing. Each child, though from the same parents, has their own unique genetic makeup. Some children are naturally prone to say ear infections, whereas others may be prone to sinus issues. While external factors certainly have an influence on these things (sometimes a significant one!), the way each individual body is constructed and put together has an impact as well. For example, think of someone who is on the track team. One person was born with longer legs and it seems that everything just "clicked" for that person to be a great runner with little effort. However, one of their teammates may not have as long of legs or the innate ability - yet they train hard everyday and still make a decent go of it. You can't do anything to change the basic foundation you were given that I know of, but you CAN do things to encourage that foundation to thrive and flourish. Unfortunately as a parent the decision of what will encourage that is solely up to you, and you get to make those decision among a sea of often conflicting reports, studies, research, anecdotes, etc. It IS hard to know what to do and make the right decision, and sometimes, you look back and realize that maybe you made a mistake. In those instances all you can do is know that you made the best decision you could at the time and move forward. I agree with the pp who recommeded that you look at each disease - the symptoms, the complications and the risk, then look at the mfr reports on the vaccine for that disease and weigh them accordingly.

Good luck!

K.