What does this Immunization Policy really mean? - Page 3

[shuttlt]

Originally Posted by TanyaLopez

I think some people have definitely been paralyzed or had other serious problems after chiropractic adjustment, I think strokes are a (very) occasional risk. The last chiropractor we visited had a poster on his wall discussing strokes and warning signs. I expect good communication on risks and benefits from my HCPs, which is one place that the AAP and the CDC have really let us down.

I'm glad. You have clearly found a good one. I don't understand why all of these energy medicines should not have to be tested the same as conventional medicines. How do we know homeopathy can't cause autism, or cancer, or strokes? It's negligent not to test this stuff.

At the risk of going into a rant, my conspiracy theoy is that energy medicine works and the practitioners deliberatly resist proving it in order that they don't lose their jobs when conventional medicine takes over the field. Homeopathy has had 200 years and still refuses to demonstrate that it works. It's wicked!

I hope I don't come across as if I think you're silly. I really don't. I just find it really interesting that different people can hold such contradictory opinions. I always hope to find the assumption, or belief, or experience that causes our thinking to fork away from one another.

[mamakay]

Originally Posted by shuttlt

I'm glad. You have clearly found a good one. I don't understand why all of these energy medicines should not have to be tested the same as conventional medicines. How do we know homeopathy can't cause autism, or cancer, or strokes? It's negligent not to test this stuff.

At the risk of going into a rant, my conspiracy theoy is that energy medicine works and the practitioners deliberatly resist proving it in order that they don't lose their jobs when conventional medicine takes over the field. Homeopathy has had 200 years and still refuses to demonstrate that it works. It's wicked!
I hope I don't come across as if I think you're silly. I really don't. I just find it really interesting that different people can hold such contradictory opinions. I always hope to find the assumption, or belief, or experience that causes our thinking to fork away from one another.

Now THAT is an original thought!

lol

[shuttlt]

I'm here to please!

[tanyalynn]

Originally Posted by shuttlt

At the risk of going into a rant, my conspiracy theoy is that energy medicine works and the practitioners deliberatly resist proving it in order that they don't lose their jobs when conventional medicine takes over the field. Homeopathy has had 200 years and still refuses to demonstrate that it works. It's wicked!

That's made my day! Which is about to get much more task-focused because we need to drive to a nearby city to get the last of our belongings out of our old house, which _finally_ came under contract! Yippee! It's not been the greatest time to be trying to sell a house (after moving to a new city for a new job for my husband).

I hope I don't come across as if I think you're silly. I really don't. I just find it really interesting that different people can hold such contradictory opinions. I always hope to find the assumption, or belief, or experience that causes our thinking to fork away from one another.

No, you're asking very reasonable questions, and I'm somewhat frustrated that my answers are not more universal. This has been a very experience-driven process for me. I'm finally at the point where I feel that getting sick 3.5 yrs ago was a real blessing, but it took a while, and I'm not sure I would wish it on anyone else!

Okay, off to Austin to pack up the house! I will catch up when I get back Sunday night, maybe someone else will have better, more comprehensive answers than I.

[shuttlt]

@TanyaLopez

[Super Glue Mommy]

Personally, I don't think homeopathy works for everyone, but it OBVIOUSLY worked for my son (even in the eyes of those who had no idea we had begun homeopathic treatment. all they noticed was a sudden extreme change for the better in a short amount of time. just another coincidence I suppose... there are some things that my son has reacted badly too, so we stopped using those things. it's very easy to see when we do certain things things are good, and when we stop they get bad again.


anyway on the original subject, I take my kids to the "best pediatricians in town" as in, where the rich folk take their kids when money is not an issue. and they really are the best. I even feel comfortable asking their advice even if I don't blindly follow it, they have given me some good advice, they are always open to information I present them, and treat me with lots of respect. they know me by now, so never even questioned my choice not to vaccinate. I feel good that they are okay with me not vaccinating. that tells me they feel confident enough in their medical training to care for my children if they catch a vaccine "preventable" disease. Now, maybe they arent "that great" I wont know until the time comes, but I do know that if a dr isn't even willing to take on a patient that isn't vaccinated that I wouldn't feel like it was "my loss" in any way. I want a dr who knows what to do if my child walks in with measles or pertussis. and, when my vaccinated children and myself came down with whooping cough, they DID know what to do. they didn't try to get around the diagnosis just because my kids were vaccinated for it. it is what it is. they know how to diagnos things, they respect my opinions, and anytime I have had a concern they were willling to look into it without putting up a stink like "thats not possible" etc. when I said I wasnt vaccinated they just said "okay, no problem mama" and never questioned me again. My son's pediatrician said to me at his 6 month check up "are you still breastfeeding... of course you are, you know whats best!" I know she wouldnt just say that to anyone (it would be hurtful to a mom who still wasnt) but she knows me and my family very well, her and I have medical discussions all the time and she reads information I give her and shares it with her office.

so, if this office you are looking into doesn't feel confident enough to take on a *gasp* unvaccinated child then just move on. you will find a wonderful doctor who is extremely intelligent and confident in their ability to care for your child no matter what. Even if I DID vaccinate my children I would find comfort in a doctor who is comfortable with diagnosing and treating vaccine "preventable" diseases, in the event the vaccine "failed" the dr would know what to do. no missed diagnosis, and proper treatment received. many times vaccine failures arent recognized which no only effects "the numbers" but also effects the child because proper treatment can sometimes not be accomplished without proper diagnosis.

[shuttlt]

Originally Posted by Super Glue Mommy

Personally, I don't think homeopathy works for everyone, but it OBVIOUSLY worked for my son (even in the eyes of those who had no idea we had begun homeopathic treatment. all they noticed was a sudden extreme change for the better in a short amount of time. just another coincidence I suppose... there are some things that my son has reacted badly too, so we stopped using those things. it's very easy to see when we do certain things things are good, and when we stop they get bad again.

OK. You are in the fortunate position of having direct experience of this. I am not. You might still be wrong, but only you had the experience and only you can evaluate it. We are talking about homeopathy this time though? What I would see as drinking some water? It certainly shouldn't do your son any harm unless you give him an aweful lot of it.

anyway on the original subject, I take my kids to the "best pediatricians in town" as in, where the rich folk take their kids when money is not an issue. and they really are the best. I even feel comfortable asking their advice even if I don't blindly follow it, they have given me some good advice, they are always open to information I present them, and treat me with lots of respect. they know me by now, so never even questioned my choice not to vaccinate. I feel good that they are okay with me not vaccinating. that tells me they feel confident enough in their medical training to care for my children if they catch a vaccine "preventable" disease. Now, maybe they arent "that great" I wont know until the time comes, but I do know that if a dr isn't even willing to take on a patient that isn't vaccinated that I wouldn't feel like it was "my loss" in any way. I want a dr who knows what to do if my child walks in with measles or pertussis. and, when my vaccinated children and myself came down with whooping cough, they DID know what to do. they didn't try to get around the diagnosis just because my kids were vaccinated for it. it is what it is. they know how to diagnos things, they respect my opinions, and anytime I have had a concern they were willling to look into it without putting up a stink like "thats not possible" etc. when I said I wasnt vaccinated they just said "okay, no problem mama" and never questioned me again. My son's pediatrician said to me at his 6 month check up "are you still breastfeeding... of course you are, you know whats best!" I know she wouldnt just say that to anyone (it would be hurtful to a mom who still wasnt) but she knows me and my family very well, her and I have medical discussions all the time and she reads information I give her and shares it with her office.

so, if this office you are looking into doesn't feel confident enough to take on a *gasp* unvaccinated child then just move on. you will find a wonderful doctor who is extremely intelligent and confident in their ability to care for your child no matter what. Even if I DID vaccinate my children I would find comfort in a doctor who is comfortable with diagnosing and treating vaccine "preventable" diseases, in the event the vaccine "failed" the dr would know what to do. no missed diagnosis, and proper treatment received. many times vaccine failures arent recognized which no only effects "the numbers" but also effects the child because proper treatment can sometimes not be accomplished without proper diagnosis.

All good advice. Certainly you should feel comfortable with you doctor. If I thought my doctor didn't understand my child, I'd move in a flash.

[mamakay]

Strangle enough, I don't put too much stock in my own personal experiences. When I believed in ghosts, I saw them from time to time. When I believed in psychic powers, I really thought I experienced psychic phenomenons sometimes. Etc. I think the human mind is amazing good at making experiences fit desires and expectations, I guess.

[Super Glue Mommy]

you seem to still be coming from a matter of right or wrong. its a matter of what is right for your family. Homeopathy has worked for my family. anyone who has had the pleasure of watching my son over the last 2 years would agree.

Homeopathy is NOT the same as drinking water. some of these things are pretty serious.

Here are a few examples:
With DS2 my water broke at 37 weeks. I went to my birth center. They checked me. 7 cm. no contractions. Go have lunch and come back. so I did. still no contractions. walk around. still no contractions. so we induced with natural herbs. BAM labor. a natural pitocin. before hand I though - no way some herbs can have the same effect as pitocin! I was nervous even taking these things "what if labor doesnt start?!?!" now, there have been reported complications to these herbs as well, which is why you have to be careful using them. even natural things can be strong.

example: cocain is a plant. snorting that not the same as drinking water.
marijuana is a plant. smoke it not the same as drinking water.

another example:
we tried my son on a DMG. it made his aggression and hyperactivity SKYROCKET. same with GABA.

you are right, I have the first hand experience of knowing homeopathy and drinking water are incomparable. does that make me right? does your lack of experience in this make you wrong? no to both. it just means that my body, and my childrens bodies, have had strong reactions to homeopthic remedies - both for better and for worse. and it its coincidental then man I should play the lottery because I'd DEFINITELY win if I keep catching the odds in this way. (but, since its not me catching the odds, its just these remedies doing their job, I think I'll steer clear of the lottery since I never won in the past. I tend to have "bad luck" which is why I am not one to play odds - I try to stick with cause and effect not a roll of the dice)

[Super Glue Mommy]

Originally Posted by mamakay

Strangle enough, I don't put too much stock in my own personal experiences. When I believed in ghosts, I saw them from time to time. When I believed in psychic powers, I really thought I experienced psychic phenomenons sometimes. Etc. I think the human mind is amazing good at making experiences fit desires and expectations, I guess.

i understand what you are saying, but this is a case of I tried something without telling others I was trying it, and they saw the results. they didnt know to be looking for drastic changes. and every time I started something new they saw a drastic change for better or for worse. which is why I didnt tell them what I was doing - it was the best way for me to determine if it was "just in my head" or truly effecting my son.

in the case of DS2's birth, I didnt think the herbs would work. but they did. it wasnt my imagination that I went into labor and my son was born. it really did happen, not just because I thought something would work (because I didnt) and not because someone else thought it would work (like my midwives did) but simply because it did work and my son was born in the water

[mamakay]

i understand what you are saying, but this is a case of I tried something without telling others I was trying it, and they saw the results. they didnt know to be looking for drastic changes. and every time I started something new they saw a drastic change for better or for worse. which is why I didnt tell them what I was doing - it was the best way for me to determine if it was "just in my head" or truly effecting my son.

There are still other possible explainations. I understand that personal experiences can be extremely compelling, though. My only reason for complete disbelief if that on a scale of one to 10 for "impossibility", homoepathy is a 10. That, plus whenever it's studied and compared to placebo, it never, ever has any effect over the placebo's.

[Super Glue Mommy]

i suppose. maybe in this case its because the homeopathic remedies we are using are more so just eliminating allergy foods (and adding deigestive enzymes and balancing vitamins)

I'm not saying its impossible these things were coincidence, but its not likely.

Started GFCF diet - teacher marks improvement over the course of weaks.
Started digestive enzymes a few months later- aggressive behavior, then more improvement.
Started GABA a few weeks later - regressed behavior. stopped GABA behavior improved.
Started DMG, behavior worse. stop DMG behavior better.
Try GABA again, different brand (lower dose, about half previous dose) - behavior only a little worse.
stop GABA, behavior improves.
Try to stop GFCF diet, behavior worse. back on GFCF diet, behavior improves. Try DMG on a weekend - extreme bad reaction! stop DMG, behavior improves, best week in a long time, possibly best week ever. (been on new vitamin supplements for about 2 weeks now as well)

it just seems that EVERY SINGLE TIME we make a change, the teacher noticed the difference too (Even without knowing we are doing anything different)

so, if thats a coincidence well I'll take it. if 100% of the time I try one thing I get a bad reaction and 100% of the time I try something else I get an improved reaction then yes, I will take that personal experience. It may not work for EVERYONE, but for my son, thats how these things effect him.

maybe impossible to you, but many people who thought that before and have seen the changes in my son (only knowing after the fact what we've been up to) no longer think its impossible.

[Super Glue Mommy]

oh also - we WANTED the DMG and GABA to work. I believe they just :"had" to work, thats why I kept trying them. so it's not in my head, or I would see better behavior not worse.

[smeisnotapirate]

I'm confused. As far as I know - homeopathy is NOT dietary changes. That's naturopathy. Homeopathy is the addition of small amounts of a substance to large amounts of water. Am I wrong?

[Super Glue Mommy]

^you mean like his supplements that I give him in addition to his dietary changes?

[mamakay]

Originally Posted by Super Glue Mommy

^you mean like his supplements that I give him in addition to his dietary changes?

What do you mean? Supplements aren't homeopathy. Homeopathy is water.

ETA:
Like, this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BWE1tH93G9U

[Mirzam]

Originally Posted by Super Glue Mommy

^you mean like his supplements that I give him in addition to his dietary changes?

Supplements are not homeopathic remedies. Homeopathy is a whole different medical paradigm, "The Law of Similars".

The book Impossible Cure by Amy Lansky details her journey of curing her son's autism with homeopathy.

[smeisnotapirate]

Ok, thanks. I thought I was going nuts.

Back to the (now re-defined) discussion.

[A_Random_Phrase]

Originally Posted by Scattershoot

That depends on your view of health. If you believe what a pediatrician has to offer is best for you and your child, then certainly take that route. I personally don't see the point of a pediatrician or even an allopathic general practitioner. Throughout all of history the main "doctor" for children has been the parent knowing what to do. Of course, emergencies arise and another expert may be needed, but these situations are very rare. Good luck.

:

[amnesiac]

Since we seem to have reached the end of discussion pertaining to this vax related policy & strayed off track into various treatment options, I'm closing this thread.

Any additional discussion regarding selective or delayed vax should go in that specific subforum. If you wish to discuss homeopathy, nutritional supplements etc please do so in H&H.