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rant about my kid supposedly being too dependant  

post #1 of 46
Thread Starter 
There is so much talk about how AP would make a child dependant, but I think it's sort of the opposite. I see a big tendancy in mainstream parents to keep kids contained. I have yet to see a baby other than mine allowed to crawl outside, tehy are always kept in strollers. inside, it's always the playpens (which I have and do use but not all the time) and kiddy corrals. They are kept in highchairs in which they have very limited movement until they can eat without making a mess and given "kid-friendly' food only. I think a lot of times parents keep them on mashed food way longer than a year just because it's perceived to be safer and easier. To me all those things say forcing dependance on your child for as long as possible. They are dependant on you to put a spoonful of food in their mouths and make them special food, to wheel them around outside, to throw toys in their playpen and to take them in and out of it.

For example, my mom always makes comments about how ds won't play in the kiddie corral (a fenced in area slighlty bigger than a bathroom) at her house because he is overly dependant. She says he is a big boy now and needs to learn to entertain himself. I just think this is so silly because he plays alone just fine outside or in a room while I do my own thing next to him. But he needs some room to explore, he needs the grown-ups to trust him. I wouldn't be happy in a little cage either. I think she's the one infantilizing him by not allowing him some room to explore on his own. Yes, it heightens the chances of him getting hurt or falling because he isn't on a foam mat, but if you watch your dc carefully nothing but some little bruises or scratches should happen.

So I just really don't understand when people say that letting your child crawl or walk around, and yes, once in a while break some things or touch the soles of some shoes is spoiling. But withholding affection when they are falling asleep or trying to shove a bottle in their hand so you don't have to hold it, or forcing them to submit to being in various container devices against their will is somehow teaching independance.What do we call it when an adult is feeling scared or upset but doesn't cry or ask for help or affection? It's called keeping your feelings bottled up inside, being depressed, or being antisocial. But in a child those things are encouraged and called "making them independant." What we call bad coping mechanisms in adults, such as shutting down emotionally, we call 'becoming independant" in children. Why aren't we seeing teh pattern?

So I just am really annoyed at what I'm hearing being called spoiling lately, especially in regards to my son. I get that sometimes you get busy, overwhelmed, lazy, or whatever, and you need to put your child down, I do too. But please don't tell me that you are teaching independance when you purposfully make your child sit in a stroller against his will(not trying to say strollers are bad, just making kids sit in them before they are ready is). Last time I checked those things still had to be wheeled around. And sitting in a little fenced off 3x3 sqaure is the very antithesis of independance. So is being strapped to a high chair. If my child was always okey dokey with being tied down I would not think him independant but freakishly submissive.

I think in general Americans are some of the most dependant people in the world. The whole teenage and tweener phase doesn't exist in most countries around the world, people are expected to go right to work or to choose a career early on. Yet in the United States, although children might move out at a young age and consider themselves independant they still expect their food and shelter to be paid for. The age of having a first child keeps going up and up because people no longer expect twenty, even thirty year olds to have that kind of maturity. And I really think that it all starts in the first few months of life. People are obsessed with forcing emotional independance while stunting physical independance in their kids.
post #2 of 46
I totally get what you are saying.

I have been scratching my head for about a month now over something my neighbor said to me. When her dd was in kindergarten she wanted to sit on the teacher's lap during storytime and she would try to hug the teacher and any other adults around. This wasn't acceptable to the school and became a big issue in which many meetings were held, they were told the child was "too dependent and immature".

Neighbor said "I don't know why she is like that, it's not like I ever cuddled her or babied her."



Obviously, she is craving hugs and affection and is looking for it from anyone she can get it from. I shudder to think where she will get it from when she's 14.:
post #3 of 46
Well, you know, I think your son probably IS spoiled. I think my kids are, compared to kids I babysit. By this I mean that they expect things, and feel entitled to them. Not material things, but things like being involved in my day, being informed of what's going on, being asked their preferences, engagement and conversation, having their questions answered, being responded to when they're upset, etc. It is possibly more trouble when they're little, though I'm not sure, but it sure seems worth it.
post #4 of 46
not spoiled, well-loved.

Very good post, op. Food for thought.
post #5 of 46
Seriously, I am all for free roaming babies. I went to a baby shower the other day, and the other (2) babies remained in their strollers the whole party! I just let the babe roam around a bit, other ladies played with him, everyone had a blast. Yes, he got a hold of some one's purse, made a racket, and picked up some piece of olive that had fallen on the floor. But that happens. One of the other babies still managed to bust her lip on the tray of the stroller, so even strapping them down they are not necessarily going to be safe from hurting themselves, they are just going to restricted. My baby only goes in the play pen when either Daddy or I need to use the bathroom or vacuum the floor, otherwise we manage. We made the house as baby friendly as we reasonably could, and just let him have at it, with supervision.
post #6 of 46
I'm with ya. People have really strange views of "independence". A lot different than mine.

I tend to think that being in baby-containers all day and not protesting when being left *all* day every day in daycare is not the normal state of things. Yet those are the things that people bring up in pointing out my "unhealthy" attachment to my children. Why, exactly, should a 6 month old need to "detach" from it's mother???? And how is being in a baby-container (having CIO there) more "independent"?

And my kids are *all over* the house. We haven't used a playpen ever (except as a bed for one of the kids). I gave up on swings and strollers long ago. The kids go where I go. They like to try and do what I do. If it's unsafe, I do it when dh is home and he can watch the kids. Or stick 'em in front of a nice educational video.
post #7 of 46
I am glad you posted this. I am pg with my last child, and my older kids are 12 and 9. Of course, my older kids had the run of the house and I am explaining to my husband and friends that this is how this new baby will be (including on the floor where, god forbid, my dogs lay). I also am looking at car seats and asked some experts and mentioned that I didn't mind a full sized seat for an infant if they were safer because I WONT leave my baby in the seat all the time, even if that means the baby might wake up when I pick him up to take him out of the car to hold him.

I was questioned by one mom as to me being for real about waking up a baby. (I wouldn't do it on purpose, but if he woke in the move, so be it). I started to question my own feelings, then reading this reminded me that frankly, my baby doesn't need to be contained. His environment needs to be set up for HIM. Nothing out that will hurt him or is easily broken. Outside in the grass if i am with him watching him, or frankly, just in my arms. Seems to make sense to me.
post #8 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by phrogger View Post
.

I was questioned by one mom as to me being for real about waking up a baby. (I wouldn't do it on purpose, but if he woke in the move, so be it). I started to question my own feelings, then reading this reminded me that frankly, my baby doesn't need to be contained. His environment needs to be set up for HIM. Nothing out that will hurt him or is easily broken. Outside in the grass if i am with him watching him, or frankly, just in my arms. Seems to make sense to me.
Gasp, a child being awoken in order to experience the comfort and affection of a parent? Forfend! Those seats are damaging to infants and excessive use is responsible for many physical disorders. Why wouldn't you want to have your babe close to you as often as possible? The snuggles are the reward for all the bum wiping and vomit!

As for saying an affectionate little girl is 'immature', well ... yeah... it's called childhood. My ds recently told his preschool teacher that she was 'lucky' because he gave her a hug. She thought it was hilarious. Kids are so open and brilliant why wouldn't you want to enjoy that?
post #9 of 46
I think AP parenting totally allows our children to be way more independent. When I go somewhere new with my son, he knows I'm right there and he has no fear at all. I've always just let him roam and just kept an eye on him. If he starts to get unsure, I see him look back and see where I am and then he takes off again. He doesn't need me nearbye, just likes to know I am there. If he climbs up on something, I consider the height and what will happen if he falls before I take him down. If he just would be startled, I leave him be...if he could actually get hurt - I take him down. My playpen works absolutely wonderful for all the clean clothes that I don't get a chance to put away. My crib has one side removed so I can sleep next to my baby in an attached bed. If my son didn't want to be in the stroller, we'd take him out - no problem - with smiles...that's what slings and arms are for! I can't remember the last time we've used it. I am totally considering going right to the larger car seat to save money on having to buy two - I usually ended up taking Sam in and out of the bucket seat anyway 'cause I liked having him snuggled up next to me in my wrap.

It makes me so sad to hear people talk about "spoiling" a baby by holding them too much. Poor babies! Why on earth else would they come out unable to walk or even really move? Because they are meant to be held! Why else are they able to nurse and sleep at the same time (a wicked cool talent I think) because they are supposed to sleep next to Mommy! I so agree with you OP and really wish more people would get this stuff. Babies are life's greatest gift and they should be treated as such - not something to try to train or something to be made convenient - but someone to love and cherish and cuddle cuddle cuddle!!!
post #10 of 46
My dd was a free roamer at that age. I never had a playpen and only had gates at the stairs for safety purposes. Even though I AP, when she was a baby people would say she was spoiled
Quote:
Originally Posted by azmomtoone
not spoiled, well-loved.
:

Now, my dd is 9 and people say how independent she is
post #11 of 46
that was excellent! Thank you!!
post #12 of 46
YES! I couldn't agree more with everything posted!

I think being AP lets children grow with a confidence in themselves and their abilities as people.

DD is still fairly attached, still gives hugs and kisses when I come into school and DS is completely attached. BUT, I feel that's such a strong base for them, a good solid foundation that they know is always there if they need it. I don't know why society thinks abandoning children (figuratively, not literally) "teaches" them to be more independent. If I wanted to teach my child to swim, I wouldn't push them into a lake and watch them struggle.

As for spoiled... they're children. Let them be children for Pete's sake. I hate this shove towards making them into little people.

Anyhoo, great posts everyone!!!
post #13 of 46
Glad I found this thread. I don't believe in caging babies either. When I go to church and see all of these babies in car seats instead of in their parents' arms, I feel sorry for the babies.

With my first baby I freaked out about her eating stuff off the floor but I still let her crawl. By the time my third came around, I realized it didn't even make him sick let alone die.

I didn't really have anything new to add. I mainly wanted to be able to reference this thread if I should need the validation in the future.
post #14 of 46
Quote:
When I go to church and see all of these babies in car seats instead of in their parents' arms, I feel sorry for the babies.
This is why I love my church Sam is able to wander around the whole place and that doesn't bother anyone. The pastor loves to see the children enjoying themselves. It's like finding an AP church!

I had something else to add that was more relevant to the discussion but forgot what it was Can you tell I'm pregnant???
post #15 of 46
I want to be ds a shirt that says:

"I'd rather be SPOILED than NEGLECTED"

(sorry that's my um wry sense of humor!)
post #16 of 46
I agree with your thoughts on this issue. I don't keep my kids in strollers unless I really had to; like going to shop in a busy mall or walking along a busy road. I never put my kids in a play pen; only when it's time to sleep in a hotel. I let them play outside, on the driveway, in the yard without fences.

I believe that if you let them do things but watch them at the same time, you're telling them, "Hey, go have fun, I trust you."
post #17 of 46
yeah, my ds has free roam of the house. people think we're crazy for letting him go where he wants, and we get funny looks for carrying a toddler and pushing a stroller, lol.
i know people who think im over protective because i dont leave him with random people and because we're still nursing. whatever, lol.

i always hold him when he needs it or wants it, and hes a very independant little boy. right now hes sitting on the floor "reading" a book. hes always been a very laid back baby though, so im sure that helps, lol
post #18 of 46
Excellent post! So true. I was constantly hassled when I let my babies roam a bit, if not verbally then certainly many nasty 'looks'. I didn't want a cot for my baby but my ex insisted saying it was safer. We put it up and I was very uncomfortable with the whole thing and got my dc back sleeping on a very low bed, inches from the floor, next to ours. Also the high-chair thing, ooh I remember it well, I was a nervous wreck and had to get shot of it. I wasn't keen on spoon-feeding either, I felt it was sort of unnatural and I just let dd feed herself, yes it was messy, so what. Yet when ex fed dd he spooned so much into her mouth(I'm in control sorta thing)that she projectile vomited regularly. I thought this was very cruel and ignorant and my pleas fell on deaf ears. I ended up doing all childcare myself, he could not be trusted. Children need to grow and develop and by taking risks ad trying out new stuff this is how we learn. I feel we are a very child and mom unfriendly culture, everything is highly controlled and moms are expected to catch their child every time they have a little fall, its ridiculous and impedes learning. Also it makes moms refrain from socializing if their dc have no freedom to grow and learn because other adults wont let them.The dependance thing maybe to satisfy the adults involved who clearly must be in control of everything.
post #19 of 46
Oooh - I remembered now what I was gonna say earlier....

It seems like a lot of parents just want to make their babies more "convenient" and easier. It's easier to lock them up than to keep an eye on them. What they don't seem to realize is that in the long run, it is way easier to have an independant child raised the AP way than a dependant child who hasn't had a chance to learn how to really handle freedom of movement.

I wish that more parents would try to see things through their babys' eyes and try to consider the way their babies feel. Sometimes I wonder if some parents realize that babies have feelings and needs of their own? Like with sleeping...would anyone really think that a baby would want to sleep alone? A lot of adults don't even like it. Why is it supposedly good for the baby? It's not, just convenient for the parents (not really but they seem to think it is.) Or the whole playpen thing...I imagine myself as a baby looking through mesh or bars which compromises already not fully developed vision and getting so frustrated 'cause I can't see all the new things that I want to see... But, it's convenient for the parent so into the pen baby goes totally stunting their learning process of their surroudings and movement. Don't get me wrong, I used to use the pen occasionally to go to the bathroom and other short moments but it seemed like I was expected to keep my baby in their for long periods of time so I could clean the house or something. I much preferred to play with Sam on the floor and interact with him. House stuff can get done at other times!

Well that's it - I realize I'm preaching to the choir here but I feel like I can't say this stuff to the mainstream parents I know and a thread like this just makes me feel like I can finally shout it all out
post #20 of 46
I love this thread. Sometimes I feel like I'm the only one who carries my pre-walking baby around. My first little guy hated being wrapped but he wouldn't stay in a bucket seat either so I just carried him, for 17 months until he walked. And then I let him walk everywhere whenever he wanted, if he got tired I carried him or we would sit and rest yes even in the middle of the grocery store, it was important to me that he felt in control of his body ya know. After his brother was born he decided he likes the stroller which we do use sometimes but he pops in and out. My youngest was out of the bucket seat after about 2 months. We switched to a 5-80 lbs convertible seat because Xander will NOT sit in a car seat unless he is in a car and it is in motion otherwise he protests the lack of point. So I wrap him wherever we go. People in this town think I'm crazy or too poor to afford a stroller or bucket carseat. I hate those poor little babies you see so contained. Babies too little to move much are just left in their car seats strapped in, babies old enough to crawl are confined to 2'x4' playpen. We have a playpen we use it as a bed when we travel. As for co-sleeping we put Austin on a mat on the floor of our room and Xander's got a crib in the corner. They go to bed in their own spaces then eventually make their way into our bed by morning, most nights. People who know us think we're nuts for this, 4 bedroom house and we all sleep in one bedroom. lol.

My DH's cousin's little baby is 6 months old and he just got to the point where they will remove him from the carseat sometimes. At home he's always in the bassinette part of those 3 in 1 playpen thingys. I always pick him up whenever I'm there. I feel bad for him; I think if his mama didn't breastfeed he might not get physically contact much at all. Even then she's got him on a tight 4-6 hour schedule. It makes me sad. Even DH who sometimes tells me I have to eventually put the baby down, gets upset at this poor little guy's plight. Sorry for the novel. Its just this very issue came up recently.
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