New Meningitis Vaccine

[anewmama]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/he...wo-years..html

[caro113]

There already is a vaccine for this designed for college students. Before you go to live in the dorms, they "encourage" you get this. I never got it so I fail to see the need for it. But I also don't believe in the effectiveness of vaccines. Of course, they want to start this at 2 months, when they start everything else. How many shots are babies getting at 2 months now? 8? 10? And now they want to add one more? What's next? A vaccine against ... umm ... Is there any illness that doesn't have a vaccine these days? Besides the common cold (which, btw, they can't even cure, only treat)?

[Layna]

Several other vaccines are in the pipeline using the same technology and Dr Rappuoli said: "The power is unlimited now."

Fabulous.

[nycmom18]

im confused...isnt this hib?

[tanyalynn]

Originally Posted by nycmom18

im confused...isnt this hib?

There are many, many bacteria out there that can cause meningitis. Calling vaccines "the meningitis vaccine" is the way to get parents to pay attention, without going the next step and saying, but there are lots of other bacteria that could also cause meningitis.

[just_lily]

The "extensive" testing involved 80 babies, and they only compared one group given the vax at 2, 4, 6, and 12 months, to the other given at 6, 12 and 18 months. THERE IS NO CONTROL GROUP!

How is this in any way good science?

And one can only assume that these babies (poor, poor babies) are also receiving all of the other vaxes.

Some days I really think I am on Neptune.

[Gitti]

Originally Posted by just_lily

The "extensive" testing involved 80 babies, and they only compared one group given the vax at 2, 4, 6, and 12 months, to the other given at 6, 12 and 18 months. THERE IS NO CONTROL GROUP!

How is this in any way good science?

The h... with good science. This is "ETHICAL".

[*Erin*]

Originally Posted by just_lily

The "extensive" testing involved 80 babies, and they only compared one group given the vax at 2, 4, 6, and 12 months, to the other given at 6, 12 and 18 months. THERE IS NO CONTROL GROUP!

How is this in any way good science?

And one can only assume that these babies (poor, poor babies) are also receiving all of the other vaxes.

Some days I really think I am on Neptune.

omg
EIGHTY. and they think that's a good enough number to say "it's safe-give it everyone!"
disgusting.
yes, poor babies.

[mamakay]

Originally Posted by caro113

There already is a vaccine for this designed for college students. Before you go to live in the dorms, they "encourage" you get this. I never got it so I fail to see the need for it.

This one is a little different. The college vax is Menactra, which is for meningococcus serotypes A,C, Y, and W135, and this vax of for the B serotype, which they've had problems making a vax for in the past.
The serotype B antigen "shape" is very similar to some protein in our brains, so our immune systems don't "want" to make antibodies against that shape.

[kiara7]

OT:

Where do they find these "volunteers" and who would sign up their BABY for drug trials?

[AislinCarys]

Meningitis B vax was just removed from the vax schedule here. They claim it ended the epidemic here. However, one study showed that any "immunity" gained was lost within a couple of months of receiving the last shot.

[japonica]

Meningitis B vax was just removed from the vax schedule here. They claim it ended the epidemic here. However, one study showed that any "immunity" gained was lost within a couple of months of receiving the last shot.

I was just going to mention that. Wasn't it a total joke? I believe Hilary wrote about it as well...

[carriebft]

http://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT00721396

that's more on the trials this vaccine is doing. In this one, one group is given the vaccine with the B and the other is given it without. I think this was part of phase 1?

I think with this one and the May 2008 one (which is talked about here--I looked at the data and it actually seems to have had 150 infants involved? more here: http://hugin.info/134323/R/1218899/255580.pdf ) are not necessarily looking at the safety v a placebo? I think that is usually in phase one, isn't it?

[nycmom18]

TanyaLopez-"There are many, many bacteria out there that can cause meningitis. Calling vaccines "the meningitis vaccine" is the way to get parents to pay attention, without going the next step and saying, but there are lots of other bacteria that could also cause meningitis."

right, of course. but didn't the article state that it was type B? or is that in itself a completely different strain?

[anewmama]

Originally Posted by mamakay

The serotype B antigen "shape" is very similar to some protein in our brains, so our immune systems don't "want" to make antibodies against that shape.

Do you know how this one is supposed to work? Cause what you just wrote is really freaky. What IF they DO get the brain to work against the protein in this one... what if people start having immune responses to a protein in our own brains?

[mamakay]

Originally Posted by anewmama

Do you know how this one is supposed to work? Cause what you just wrote is really freaky. What IF they DO get the brain to work against the protein in this one... what if people start having immune responses to a protein in our own brains?

I really don't know.
There was a youtube documentary about horrific neurological reactions in a test-vax used in Norway. I honestly don't know if it was "real" or just antivax fearmongering. But it appears that they had issues with that (similar if not identical) vax and it was quickly withdrawn.
Then later, in New Zealand, a different formulation of a meningococcal b was introduced, but it was not very effective.

I'm skeptical about a "good" vax for this being possible presently, but I doubt that a "bad, dangerous" vax would be introduced here on a national level. The US is the "jumping off point" for global vaxes, and all vax manufacturers are looking for global introductions. That's where the giant money is.
The way they "sell" the vaccines to other nations is through cherry picking data, but they only do that when you're talking about something like replacement disease. (like serotype replacement with Prevnar).
Anywho, I doubt that a vax that caused immediate terrible harm to infants often would pass the enormous clinical trials we see in the US. Although sometimes data is fraudulent from pharma, it's a non-issue, because the liability would be so giant.

That said, I'll be watching the methodology of the clinical trials, and also watching the endpoints evaluated.
But it seems seriously unlikely that a vax that had horrible neuroloical reactions often would make the grade here and now. I think it's a lot more likely that:
1) the vax is ineffective
Or...
2) it is effective against serotype B, but is not effective after replacement is accounted for
Or..
3)maybe it's a great vax

Time will tell, I guess.

[tanyalynn]

Originally Posted by nycmom18

right, of course. but didn't the article state that it was type B? or is that in itself a completely different strain?

I was referring more generally to the "meningitis vaccine" description that's given to so many of these vaccines, and the previous poster's question of "Isn't HiB the meningitis vaccine?" I think that confusion, that X vaccine will prevent meningitis, is fostered by the way these vaccines are marketed to parents. The lack of clear, straightforward information that discourages parents from making an informed, responsible decision for their own children is one of the aspects of the vaccination program that ticks me off the most.