to christians: should i honor a husband who acts dishonorable?

[Following the sun]

i am having a hard time with my view of my husband.

He does bad things and then does not make ammends for them and even blames me and other people for what he does.

The other day i discovered some business cards and i asked him if he knew these people. He said "no, i took them down when i put mine up." i was appauled that he would do that. To me success is not sweet if you have to cheat to get it. I knew one of these people by the way, he is a tremendous father and used to be one of my best friends years ago. i am considering going to the grocery store where my husband put his cards up, take down his and put the others back up. What do you all think of him doing something like this?

Also, he let our car insurance run out over a month ago and did not even tell me, so i have been driving with children for a month before i even knew it. I asked him about the insurance and he flew into a rage that lasted hours, screaming at me on the street while i had our baby son on my back, blaming me. He said it was my fault because i hid the registered letter on him. Which i did not do. It was in the mail folder by the door where i told him it was repeatedly. I even seen him read the letter a loud x2 before the payments were due, then he put it back there.

He is so often quick to anger and overworked. He says we cannot afford our bills, but he has not even touched the gas bill since october, or the electricity, or the phone, and just missed the rent payment! He spends a ton of money on eating out, he gained about 70lbs in a year, has started smoking again at $10 a pack. this is hard to deal with.

I am having a real hard time treating him favorably, or having a good view of him. He is not being an honorable person. No matter which way i try to talk to him, he yells, and in front of the kids too. he also takes off a lot. I am afraid they are developing abandonment issues.

I am considering taking the children and leaving. I have 3 myself and one with him.

It is really pathetic that i have to even think about leaving with all these children and no supports because he cannot or will not get his act together.

What should i do?

[terese17]

technically im catholic, but I have no idea what the church would say about this. Do you have somewhere you could stay for awhile? If it was me I would probably try to sit him down and explain how you are feeling and the lack of security and that you will be staying somewhere else until he can act like a responsible adult. It doesn't matter if he wont sit down ad talk to you at this point,as long as he knows why you are leaving, write a letter, make copy, keep one with you and post the other on the fridge if you must. As long as you actually leave. I have many places where I could stay so this would be an option for me. I dont know what else to do if this wont work for you Just because he is not physically abusing you does not mean that he is not abusing you and/or your children. I grew up with a mother who would randomly take off all the time when she got mad and its not fun. since you were asking this in a religiously minded sort of way, if you are connected to a church, they can usually help out in situations like this. Good luck with everything

[greenmamato2]

My suggestion would be to try counseling. It sounds like he is dealing with some emotional issues, which can be a big cause for all of this. That doesn't excuse the yelling of course, but it really sounds like depression from the little bit that you've described here. I would say that yes, your husband is making bad choices, but if you're in it for the long haul, then do everything possible to work it out. If you don't feel safe around him, see if you can get to a family member's or friend's house for a while, and from there you and he can talk about if you want to do counseling.

[Bluegoat]

That sounds really hard for you. It also sounds, though, like he is overwhelmed and depressed. It would be really good if you could get him to see a doctor, or priest.

Would he let you take over the bill payment/financial management? Would you feel that you could manage that?

I would be angry about the cards, but I don't know if I would bring them up - it might be best to address the bigger issues. I post them up again myself though.

[cappuccinosmom]

I believe in "submission".

I believe in honoring the position of husband/father.

But in individual situations where a husband is sinning, or doing something illegal, I also believe that I am to speak the truth--lovingly and respectfully.
If something is causing my husband to sin, I would look at how we could change that. Honoring and submitting does not mean just going "belly up" and letting everything pass. There have been a few times when I have had to speak up to dh to let him know something he did was absolutely wrong and intolerable. Previously, I used to rant and rave over every little thing, complain, cry, rage, fight, argue, etc. That was not honorable nor honoring. What I can do though, that is honoring him while speaking the truth is say, very calmly, and very lovingly "Dh, what you just did/said was completely unGodly and completely wrong." And then refuse to engage in any argument or recieve any blame/anger from him, and let him simmer in that stew by himself for a while.

Finances: if he's stressed and very bad with money, would he be willing to let you be responsible for them? It sounds like you all need a very clear understanding of who needs to do what, and need to get that stuff organized.
In our case, my husband is better overall with money stuff, but, he doesn't have the time to do them in a way that would result in good things. So that's my "job".

If he's doing something unethical, I'd notify the people he's doing it to (in your case probably the store managers, so they can keep any eye out for him).

If he's doing something illegal, I'd call the police.

If he's physically abusing or verbally threatening violence, I'd call the police, press charges, and set up a dozen hoops for him to jump through to prove repentence and then wait a few years to see if he's consistently repentent.

When we are having troubles, it helps me to turn it around and think about what I expect dh to do for me. You bet I expect him to love me faithfully even when I am being unloveable. He's called to do that Biblically. And I am called to do the same, though the wording is a little different. But love isn't blind and helpless. If I were dealing with mental issues or violent, I would expect dh *out of love* to take some action, as much as I wouldn't like it in the moment.

If you leave, will he get partial custody of the child you have together? If that's so, I'd really hesitate to leave. If he's bad for the kids while you are there to soften things a little, and you can't stand to be near him, think about how bad it would be to have to drop your child off with him every weekend knowing you won't be there to influence him for the good, or soften the unpleasant stuff. Perhaps try counseling first. See if you can get some help with your husband's "stuff", whatever is going on inside him that is causing him so much pain and rage. That would be loving and honoring him.

[lilyka]

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Maggie had some great things to say.

It is hard to honor someone who posses nothing in which to place honor.

the best advice I got was to find 2-3 things I could honor about my husband and honor the heck out of them. and if it was not something that you could realisticly do anything about and it wasn't directly hurting you or could get you in any sort of trouble hold your tounge. if it was something that was putting you in danger then speak out against him as lovingly as you can. and if you need to leave then leave. leaving does not necessarily equal divorce.

if you do feel like you need to leave (i am not saying you should stay or go) don't worry about money. he will have to pay you child support and the courts do not care about his stupid money sucking habits. i have less income than i did when I was married but it is managed much better and I am much more comfortable than I was married. so don't let money be a deciding factor. in the end you will do what you need to do to put a roof over your kids head. and food on the table. and if he wants to piss away what is left of his income and starve on the streets that will be his problem.

[TzippityDoulah]

I think maggie said it all really... no need for me to post!

no really, I agree with all she had to say. submission, yes. but letting something illegal or dangerous go without a word? that's not submission, that's being a doormat and letting your kids be a doormat. it's not honoring of the words God gave us to follow. to honor our husbands is not to be okay with his bad and sinful behaviour.

I can't say *what* to do. prayer would be where I would go with it first. ti is clear your husband has something deep inside causing these issues. my feeling would be sin. whether it be a big one or a little seed of one, it's clearly enough of an issue to block his desire to serve his fmaily properly. love him. pray for him every chance you get. pray over your family and "stand in the gap" as they say. pray for his spirit.
other than that, if it did get physically and verbally abuse I would explain to him you will have ot seek other arrangements. but I would NEVER threaten that which I was not ready to do - that only feeds power to an offender. Make sure you are ready to follow through. these issues may stem from emotional issues deep inside your husband... but when it's all said and done what he is doing is sinful. both things would need to be addressed by him before he was able to make a change.

and last but not least, my heart goes out to you. it is SO difficult to follow God when your husband is doing the exact polar opposite. But God knows your heart.

[graceomalley]

You are under no Biblical obligation to submit to him if he is behaving in an unGodly way. I would suggest talking to your priest/minister about this and organising some counseling to see if he's open to working through this.

[AngelBee]

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[Kidzaplenty]

[Following the sun]

Thanks to all you wonderful women who have taken the time to talk to me. I appreciate that very much, especially being that i am rather isolated.

You all said wise things. I am trying to find honor some of the honorable things he has about him. It is a little difficult to let that flow happen because life with him is like walking on eggshells. It is hard for things to develop and grow in a positive way in that type of environment. But your suggestion is in my heart waiting to bloom.

I agree that i should be handeling the money. He has not paid the rent this month either. I jsut found that out. He most often cashes his cheques and keeps all the cash in his pocket. Sometimes he gives me a little for groceries, and I mean, a little. He is very bad with his money, our money. I suggested i look after it and he will not let me. I am not even sure exactly how much he makes. I know that anything worth anything, my name is not put on, and all the depts bear my name.

Yes, he has sin and deep hurts inside that he needs to deal with. He has been put on medications for depression but will not take them longer than 2 weeks, so there is no result. He then tells me it is my fault he needs the meds. He has a long history of unstability before me, if anything, my influence has increased his functionality.

I want to volunteer at church for the children's ministry and asked him to come with me, wow, i should not have done that because he got very angry. Told me that he is NOT going to church twice a week and to not force things on him. He has been falling asleep in church and checking out other women, he thnks i do not notice, but i surely do.

These business cards are still here, i have not put them up, but i am going to.

Yesterday he freaked out on my handicapped child because he did not hear her right. He does that a lot. he has not planted a healthy relationship with her and is angry with her a lot of the time.

He did apologise for his temper tantrums yesterday. He said there were things he had to work on. But he never, ever does anything to help himself. we just always have to pay for it.

I really wish we could grow together, but i am only able to express myself maybe 20% in this relationship, the rest i have to guard because he misinterprets and over reactes, or plain does not listen.

So. honoring, yeah, that would be fruitful, but gosh, he does not even respect me.

I hav ebeen trying to figure out how to leave. I have no where to go. he keeps the van ill repair (and in his name only) so i cannot go far, he does not take care of the kids for more than an hour, and even then, i am met with him being annoyed. I have no where to go, no money. So i am really stuck.

All this does not mean that i cannot start planting. I have to devote more time to developing supportive friendships, hiding money, making plans. At best, i will not have to use it for escape, at worst, at least i will be able to get away and be able to care for my children.

I have been a stay at home, sleep sharing, cloth diapering, breastfeeding, cooking from scratch mom, but i think i might have to change some of that, and try to get a job. I have no resources. I cannot depend on a man. Unfortunately, this is a lesson my children have had to learn too.

I have been thinking of asking this really great family at church to be a surrogate for my kids, so they can see what a good marriage is. I just cannot show them. many men do nto want a woman who has a handicapped child, and sometimes the ones who do,just do not have what it takes to care for achild like that.

What are my choices really?

We are on the list for counseling, so we are waiting. When we do go, i am certain he will not be honest. He is not even honest we me or himself.

[Kidzaplenty]

I don't have anything to offer as far as advice goes, but just wanted to offer a .

[TzippityDoulah]

I was thinking about you and your situation today so I came back to see if there were any updates. I wish I had something wonderful to say... but unfortunately you're in a hard situation. I'm praying for you all.

[Following the sun]

Thanks for the encouragement and hugs. i need those for sure. I want to go to the woman's group at church, but they have no more childcare available, so i cannot go.

I am very nervous about getting a sitter. I asked a girl i know, who is a terrific mom and she said she would think about it. She is busy a lot tho.

It seems so many believe in spanking or crying it out. I cannot have my son cared for like that, he would not do well. He cannot even tolerate being in the church nursery for an hour while i am in church. He is very attached to me at this point in his life.

The update is, DH has been nice for the last few days. I sent him an email discussing his behaviour and a copy of the daily groove newsletter. I think it helped. I wish he would discuss it with me tho.

He is talking about buying a better van for me when we do our taxes. I hope he follows through and actually puts it in my name or both of our names, even if only to show he honors me.

i am thankful for your prayers. I have been praying too, hoping, and learning.

I would rather not be a single mom, but if i have to be, i know that i can do it.

[Leta]

I am a Christian only in the fringiest, freakiest sense... so I would feel very out of place trying to offer you any kind of theological advice or insight, but I wanted you to know that you are in my thoughts and prayers.

[Ruthla]

What you've described sounds like abuse to me, specifically the way he's denying you money yet putting your name on the debts. Contact a domestic violence shelter or coalition in your area. You may be able to stay in a shelter when you leave him- and whether or not you stay in the DV shelter, the organization running the shelters can still provide you with various resources: counseling for you and the kids, legal advice, etc.

What he's doing is going beyond "dishonor" and putting you and the kids at real risk. He's not a safe person to be around and he's keeping you dependent and vulnerable (which is another indication of abuse.)

[Following the sun]

Originally Posted by Ruthla

What you've described sounds like abuse to me, specifically the way he's denying you money yet putting your name on the debts. Contact a domestic violence shelter or coalition in your area. You may be able to stay in a shelter when you leave him- and whether or not you stay in the DV shelter, the organization running the shelters can still provide you with various resources: counseling for you and the kids, legal advice, etc.

What he's doing is going beyond "dishonor" and putting you and the kids at real risk. He's not a safe person to be around and he's keeping you dependent and vulnerable (which is another indication of abuse.)

yes, you are right, he has been abusive. I think part of the reason he does not put my name on things is because he is afraid i will leave him and take what he has. He does not really have much anyway, but i think if i wanted to, i still would be eligable for half. NOt htat i want it, it is more the principle.

He does not fix the van because he is bad with managing his time and his money because he has problems with mental health that he has not owned up to.

He has many features of ADHD, Bipolar disorder, OCD, and borderline personality disorder. I do realize that there is a lot of overlap between these diagnoses, so he could have any one of them, or more likely, blend of them. I hope he soon goes for help.

He has told me he wants us to go to counselling, i am up for that. I did tell him that it will not work unless he deals with his own personal crap first.

I am a fair bit more educated and life intellgent than he is, and he is threatened by that so he tries to make me little to make himself feel better.

I think he should stop that and go read a book and get a therapist.

I have talked to the people at the abuse shelter about going there. I will if things do not get btter, altho i really do not want to have it go that far.

I believe that things can change, with god's help and good intention/attention to the situation.

We had a huge blow out yesterday. The kids were waiting for me in the van, so thankfully they seen nothing go on between him and I. Unfortunately, they seen me crying when i got in the van. I told them "I love you, i am sorry i am crying, i am just a little sad, let's get to church kiddos."

During the bow out I told him that i would have left him a long time ago if it were not for the fact that we have a family together and that his poison is ruining the family and I am very angry. He got so mad and hurt. He pushed a shelf down and screamed that he would not be there when i got back. I said, please do not leave, just work on your shit and calm the hell down. When i got back, he was out cleaning his truck and came home happier and was attentive to the kids and I.

I really hope he takes healing himself very seriously, or we will not make it.

I thank you all for your help. you are the only people i am talking to about this. so please know i thank you for your caring.

I too am a more liberal christian, in the fringiest sense lol. I like the way you put that.

[TzippityDoulah]

even if the church peope believe in spankin or whatever that you don't believe in, doesn't mean they will spank YOUR kid. parent who believe in spanking or crying it out, don't believe in spanking other people's children.

we have some un-AP styles of parenting (and I'll leave it at that) but I would NEVER overstep my boundaries of parenting and start parenting another child. if i watch a child that's unruly I inform the parents if i can't get it under control in a proper "babysitter-style" manner. nobody should EVER parent another person's child! that's abuse in my opinion. only the parents should decide how they parent/discipline. and nurseries are CERTAINLY not a place for spanking, lectures, time outs ect...

[Following the sun]

Originally Posted by HennyPenny

even if the church peope believe in spankin or whatever that you don't believe in, doesn't mean they will spank YOUR kid. parent who believe in spanking or crying it out, don't believe in spanking other people's children.

we have some un-AP styles of parenting (and I'll leave it at that) but I would NEVER overstep my boundaries of parenting and start parenting another child. if i watch a child that's unruly I inform the parents if i can't get it under control in a proper "babysitter-style" manner. nobody should EVER parent another person's child! that's abuse in my opinion. only the parents should decide how they parent/discipline. and nurseries are CERTAINLY not a place for spanking, lectures, time outs ect...

I am not completely AP either, but mostly I guess. When i was mentioning the crying it out and spankin and such, i was more referring to my in laws and a few other people I know.

I have told various people at church i need a sitter and some assistance and such, but no one offers. I guess I am fishing.

In the past, when i was a single mom, i practically begged for help, no one would.

I belong to a larger church, maybe that is why. The community is not tight. There is not even anyone willing to help my challanged daughter be part of the kids groups. I talked to the children's ministry heads many times about getting someone, but there is never anyone who will commit. I got fed up and just brought her to the group and she has done alright. She should be as welcome as everyone else. If something happens, i am sure they will deal with it. I was just so tired of her not being a part of things. So far, so good.

ANd i do agree, no one should try to parent other people's kids, but sometimes they just do it anyway.

My daughter's step mother spanked her and there is nothing i can do about that. I am pissed and she has no right, but her husband (my ex husband) is too much of a jellyfish to stand up to her. They only see him in the summers.

I tolerate too much because i try real hard to not let anything negative impact my kids. I hang in there, and perservere. Sometimes that is not the best thing for them, but it is often the lesser of two evils. I hate that i have to sometimes make choices based on that. gosh, that is so unhealthy, but what can a girl do?

[tankgirl136]

First it sounds like you have a lot going on.

I am not a Christian but I had to say something to offer you some insight. If you are legally married to your DH it does not matter in most states if a piece of property has your name or not many have community property rights or other laws to protect women who might not be working.

I do not think it is a bad idea to look and see if your state is a community property state. And if things continue go speak to a lawyer. You need to know were you will stand not matter what happens and to help protect yourself and your children.

I wish you the best!