Raising Our Children Raising Ourselves-Chap.1 - Page 2

[Super Glue Mommy]

Originally Posted by green_momma2007

I think the S part is really good. I feel that most of the time I'm just reacting before I even have a chance to really think about it. So I will definitely try to hold my tongue.
One thing bothered me though. The scenario where she says that it's sometimes better to not say anything, the child screams at the grandma. I would totally be put off by that, particularly by a 5 year old. I'm thinking I would have said: Oh you're upset, Grandma's upset too. I feel bad when people scream at me.
I have a hard time letting kids be disrespectful, especially to Grandmas!

This has been hard for me to grasp as well. What about when other's safety is involved? my son throws toys all over the place and they end up hitting people in the head or he throws it at us so there is a no throwing toys in the living room rule because we need to respect that space in the house belongs to everyone - so we go together to his room, I let him have his feelings there, I listen, we problem solve, etc.

Originally Posted by green_momma2007

I really like your way of describing it: Don't feed the fire, just comment on the flames.

im putting this one in my notes! love it!

Originally Posted by foodmachine

I hear you. I felt that way when Aldort talks about not expecting "please" and "thank you". I was like "but that's important!" However, I think Aldort would say these thoughts reflect our needs not our child's - our need for them to respectful or polite.

Of course isn't great to be screamed at but Grandma can take it .
I think (hope) Amber comes and apologizes to Grandma later.

oh yes, its amazing how many things we expect our children to do because its important to us, and sometimes we don't even know why!

Originally Posted by green_momma2007

As I read this book, I feel a struggle to accept what she's saying. It's like I'm screaming inside: But if I don't do anything they are going to run wild and turn into crazy savage adults who don't care about others!
And while I was mulling over this thought yesterday I realized something. There are basically two ways of viewing human nature. Either we are essentially good or essentially evil. Even though I've changed my way of parenting in many ways to reflect AP, I think deep down inside I still hold on to the idea that we are evil. That's why I'm so reluctant to accept some of Aldort's ideas. I guess I think that if I don't micromanage my children's behavior that they will turn out bad.
So I have to keep reminding myself that my children are inherently good and if I provide love and guidance they will turn out allright.

I have this problem too! I like her example somewhere before the first chapter where she talks about children being like a flower - that you can give water and sunlight too, but can't pry the bud open or change the colors of the petals. There is a quote that reminds me of, but I can't remember exactly what it is... about not trying to make a sunflower be a rose but to just nourish it into the best possible sunflower... something like that, maybe not a sunflower lol... I'll post if I remember the quote... but basically if you nourish they flourish!

Originally Posted by Keeta

I really hear what you're saying. It is a serious leap of faith, right? Especially since it's soooo process oriented and the results won't be in for years whether it was a good plan or not.

Something that helps me occasionally is to take your initial resistance about something - say, that your kid shouldn't have a cookie right now - and taking it all the way through the argument to the end. Why shouldn't they have a cookie? Because they won't eat "real" food later. So what? Then they'll be unhealthy. And? They'll get sick and die. Kind of taking it to the most extreme conclusion lets you see that maybe you can say yes more to your child AND feel less reluctance about it because your argument was based on a false premise. It doesn't always work for me, but sometimes it helps to shake me out of my singular "I'm the mom and I know what's important/right" point of view.

i think it also helps to understand what something working means. Some think if they see xyz outward result then it's working. or that if hasn't worked if that outward result isnt there. sometimes I have a hard time letting go of what the outward result might be. of course its important on some level, but not the level that should be our main focus.

[foodmachine]

Welcome!

[doublyblessed]

me too! that is really great! i'm going to post that in my house...maybe in a few places...

Originally Posted by green_momma2007

I really like your way of describing it: Don't feed the fire, just comment on the flames.

[doublyblessed]

Originally Posted by foodmachine

I hear you. I felt that way when Aldort talks about not expecting "please" and "thank you". I was like "but that's important!" However, I think Aldort would say these thoughts reflect our needs not our child's - our need for them to respectful or polite.

Of course isn't great to be screamed at but Grandma can take it .
I think (hope) Amber comes and apologizes to Grandma later.

hopefully i haven't come to this ch 1 study too late...i figure some of us will arrive later & still find this thread useful despite...

i think most of our social norms for respect/politeness stems from OUR own issues, our own needs to seek approval and to not offend because of this. our own fears that people won't like us and will judge us or shun us... (or our dc!) of course, i also do not like when my dd is rude to her grandma either. but i do not expect her to behave any which way...polite or impolite. i remind my mother (and myself for that matter!!!) to try not to take it personally and to not react in a nasty way in return...that my dd is obviously going thru something...insecurity or wanting to feel like a big girl and not be babied...or visa versa...something. to love her unconditionally no matter what.

my dd recently yelled out the window to her friends' mother I HATE YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! when they were leaving as my dd was upset that her friends' mom had arrived to p/u her dd earlier than expected.

i didn't know what to do in re. to this...i did remind my dd that we do not talk to people like that-anyone. & that that is hurtful to people's hearts...that df's mother didn't mean to hurt my dd by arriving early.

and when i saw dd's friends mom at school the other morning i said 'hey, i'm so sorry if you were upset when M yelled she hates you out the window'. you know what she said...? she said 'oh...no big deal... i'm tougher than that...!' and i said...'yeah, i figured!' and that was that. i apologized more out of fear and embarassment that she might think less of me and/or my dd vs. being polite.

i don't make my dd say please and thank you or i'm sorry...sometimes a 'look' is all it takes IMHO. why make or expect her to say it if it isn't genuine? like alfie kohn says in unconditional parenting, it is only temporary, not something she will do just 'because' she feels for others'. only for temporary 'rewards' to pacify/appease us. although my dd's waldorf school is very BIG on manners...which i can't STAND...so i do find myself acting like miss manners when i'm there...don't get me wrong, i have 'manners' (well not always ;O) but i only believe it should come from the heart...not just cuz its 'expected' to me that is conditional love/acceptance and that is NOT ok w/ me...i don't expect that from any child...or adult for that matter.

[doublyblessed]

Originally Posted by Super Glue Mommy

just started reading not all the way through the chapter yet but I am a drama adder and I didnt realize it! Im going to tone it down and try to just be more reflective!

i'm a drama-adder too...now i will do my best to tone it down...emit it, even...sigh...how i LIKE drama, though!!!

[foodmachine]

Welcome doublyblessed. Cool you are found your way here.
I thought about you today when I read part of Chapter 4 (re: the word "hate"). I hope other mamas from our UC parenting book group find their way here. There's so much to discuss!

[mrscookie]

On the issue of polite requests and saying thank you, my 3yo does this for the most part, although sometimes he's impulsive and says "MORE ORANGES!!!". Sometimes, I'd ask him whether he could make that a polite request, and he would, or I would just confirm "You'd like more oranges, please?", and sometimes he'd say he wants me to ask politely for him. I'm not sure if this is entirely in the spirit of the book, but I do make it a request for him to address me in a manner I like, but honor it when he says that he's not able to at that time (especially when he's upset about something). 

I do think he's very conscious of how people talk to each other and understand that it helps people to feel respected when communication is polite. He'll sometimes point out if I don't say "you're welcome" or well note if someone squeezes by us on the street without saying "excuse me." 

[ettieg]

That's how I read it, too, Keeta.

Kids pick up so many cues from our reactions that often drive their own response.  Same is true of scrapped knees and laughter.  Enjoying the piece veru much.