please help me help my DD (multiple intolerances, digestive problems, crowded teeth)

[caedmyn]

Since there a lot of threads floating around about food chemical sensitivity, various nutrients, genes, etc, maybe some of you would like to give me some suggestions on ways to help my 3 year old DD.

She's intolerant to dairy, gluten, oats (separate issue from the gluten), eggs, and maybe nuts & peanut butter. She tends to have mushy/unformed stools most of the time. She's sensitive to salicylates and amines. It takes her FOREVER to fall asleep at night. She has a little pot belly. And her palate is very narrow and both her top and bottom teeth are quite crooked. She may have mercury/metal issues, who knows, I do have quite a few mercury fillings. I'm not getting her tested and wouldn't chelate her anyway so that's a moot point (DH doesn't agree with anything I've done, let alone the continuing dietary restrctions). And since I weaned her at 25 months she catches every.single.thing that goes around. I think she's been sick around 14-15 times in the last 12 months. I've tried extra vitamin A, vitamin D, and vitamin C and nothing seems to help.

What I've tried for her: The SCD, candida diet, various probiotics, bone broths, herbal infusions (before I realized she had problems with salicylates), avoiding foods, loads of supplements (particularly vitamin D, vitamin A from fish oil, magnesium, and vitamin K for the teeth issues, also zinc & l-glutamine to try to heal her gut), consultations with a student homeopath, a chiropractor who specialized in minerals (wrote "Minerals for the Genetic Code", a VERY interesting book) & a NT-style nutritionist...I'm probably forgetting a few.

Stuff that's actually appeared to help: folate & hydroxycobalamin (B12) increase her amine tolerance quite a bit
digestive enzymes--just started giving her these and now her stools are mostly formed, even though I only remember the enzymes for 1-2 meals a day
Yeah, not much has helped.

I'm primarily concerned with the digestive issues & the crowded teeth. I plan to continue the enzymes until I run out of them (probably 4-5 months from now) and I'd really like to do some stuff along with them to try to heal her gut. I'd like to get either the Biokult probiotic or VSL3 (I've had good success with this for my own digestive issues, it's prescribed for ulcerative colitis & IBS) for her and try to get gelatin into her every day, or maybe bone broths again if she can tolerate the amines in them. I do have a bottle of Natural Cellular defense and I'll probably try again to give her that--last time I tried she kept wetting her pants so I gave up. FWIW wetting her pants is her primarily reaction to salicyaltes, so maybe the NCD was pushing something through her detox pathways...or something.

I can't consult anyone--there really aren't any funds for it and DH wouldn't agree anyway, not to mention natural practitioners tend to recommend a bunch of herbal stuff that just doesn't work for her. And I can't do any lab tests.

So...if you've managed to make it through all of this, any suggestions?

[Theloose]

If folate and B12 are helping, that points straight to the double need for folate MTHFR mutation. The high palate and points towards tongue tie of some form, which would be caused by high homocysteine (is that actually a cause, or just a corellation?) in *you* while you were pregnant. Which means you probably have a similar mutation (it can be homozygous in 677, or heterozygous for both 677 and 1298).

So folate, methyl B12, possibly B6(?) and sulfur amino acids (meat/eggs) will be helpful. OOH, (connection in my head) her methylation cycle is going way slow. The methyl groups that it creates are needed by the amine enzymes to break down the amines. That's why it helps. Cool.

If amine tolerances are better but you're stalled, it's time to add magnesium (and make sure you're doing the B6 - P5P form may help but I forget why) to convert homocysteine into sulfate and glutathione. If you still are hoping for better amine tolerance, betaine might help by making more methyl groups.

If sulfites are an issue, Molybdenum may help.
And once you're here, vitamin C will probably have a much bigger impact, increasing the glutathione pathway.

http://www.nutriwest.com/articles/homovmsm.htm

I'm going at this from the top down, but that carries the risk of completely changing symptoms without really solving that detox issue. Which would make it hard to be sure that you know what you're looking at. If you go the other way and supplement each of those things in the reverse order of what I posted, you could be pretty sure of the pathway opening up, but you might be doing supplements you don't need.
http://heal-thyself.ning.com/forum/t...bstacle-course

So says the theory, anyway. I have ZERO experience - I haven't even started testing on myself yet!

[Theloose]

http://heartfixer.com/AMRI-Nutrigenomics.htm

[Theloose]

I keep thinking about you. From the past couple days of reading, everything is SCREAMING 'need more methyl groups.'

so methyl forms of everything, betaine, phosphatidylserine, phosphatidylcholine, check for lead poisoning and this might help to understand it better:
http://www.enzymestuff.com/methylation.htm

[caedmyn]

Originally Posted by whoMe

I keep thinking about you. From the past couple days of reading, everything is SCREAMING 'need more methyl groups.'

so methyl forms of everything, betaine, phosphatidylserine, phosphatidylcholine, check for lead poisoning and this might help to understand it better:
http://www.enzymestuff.com/methylation.htm

Other than the food chemical sensitivities, why are you thinking "more methyl groups"?

I have actually done most of the stuff you mentioned. Hydroxycobalamin or adenosylcobalamin are supposed to be better than methycobalamin for detoxing for some reason that I can't remember, and she gets hydroxy in her multi. I do give her folate although (other than what's in her multi) generally only when she's been eating too many amines. I've tried giving her very frequent epsom salt baths but don't notice any difference over just giving her one a week (which she needs to prevent leg cramps due to her calcium supplement). There's four times the RDA for B6 (partially in P-5-P) form in her multi. And I took betaine when I was still nursing her and didn't notice any increase in her amine tolerance. Sulfur/sulphates aren't an issue for DD, although they appear to be one for DS. I'll be trying molyB for him when I order some new supplements in the next couple of weeks.

[WuWei]

I agree with WhoMe, per my reading: more meat (especially liver and egg yolks) PLUS molybendum, B-vitamins (green juice), fermented vegetables (B12). I'm a whole foods gal, rather than supplements. Supplements feel too "isolated" from the whole for me. Here is information about the amino acids, vitamins and minerals as whole food sources: http://heal-thyself.ning.com/forum/t...nt-dense-foods

I'd add homemade bone broths (betaine), whole food probiotics (many more microbials than a bottle, and correct ph), green juices (molybendum, B6, B12 +enzymes) and Espom salts (add a pinch to any drink for mag sulfate) and mineral water. Soaking the rice and beans and legumes in an acid medium for increased nutrient bio-availability. Well, that is what we are doing here. I don't have to understand/test the pathway that I'm opening, I want to nourish the whole body. Supplements don't feel that way *to me*.


Pat

[caedmyn]

She's intolerant to eggs. She actually eats quite a bit of meat, I just let her have however much she wants. She won't eat liver, and it's generally too high in food chemicals, anyway...same with greens. That's one of the reasons why I supplement, because it's very difficult to find foods that she can have that are high in the nutrients I want her to have. I've never had any success for either of us with fermented foods/cultured drinks/etc, only with certain probiotics. Fermented foods may be stronger than probiotics, but unless they contain the strains you need, they don't do any good. And none of them contain bifidus strains, so if that's what you need, you have to get it from probiotics.

[Theloose]

Originally Posted by caedmyn

And her palate is very narrow and both her top and bottom teeth are quite crooked.

http://www.brianpalmerdds.com/frenum.htm
the narrow palate/crowded teeth sounds like a tongue tie issue. Panserborne is the expert there. Did you ever have her evaluated?

If it is, then tongue tie is an indicator of high homocysteine levels in *you.* Which would indicate that the methyl cycle is blocked somehow, which would mean you don't have as many methyl groups running around as you should.

Testing homocysteine levels is a common blood test.

And since I weaned her at 25 months she catches every.single.thing that goes around. I think she's been sick around 14-15 times in the last 12 months. I've tried extra vitamin A, vitamin D, and vitamin C and nothing seems to help.

from http://heartfixer.com/AMRI-Nutrigenomics.htm:
"We need methyl groups to silence viral RNA, to defend against other microbes, and to defend against environmental toxins." Somehow this process is linked to dopamine, but I'm not sure of the specifics. Just that lower dopamine is supposed to be worse.

Stuff that's actually appeared to help: folate & hydroxycobalamin (B12) increase her amine tolerance quite a bit[/QUOTE]

In order to make more methyl groups, you need to convert homocysteine into methionine. This process generally relies on active folate (food form, MTHFR converts it from folic acid) and methyl-B12, but that reaction can be blocked by lead poisoning (another standard childhood blood test). There's an alternate route to do the conversion, which involves betaine and is stimulated by phosphatidylserine and phosphatidylcholine.

On forms of B12: at that heartfixer link, read about MTR and MTRR. Basically, the two enzymes work together to give you a ready supply of methyl-B12. Depending on your genes and how fast each works, there can be a dramatic difference between methylcobalamin and hydroxycobalamin.


If these detox pathways aren't balanced, serotonin and dopamine aren't going to be at optimal levels. They're both closely tied to digestion. And as you know, if digestion is out of whack, then it's easy to get further nutrient deficiencies.

[WuWei]

One theory is to avoid the chemical sensitivity. Another is to support the body to remove the chemicals effectively. That depends upon many adequate "nutrients" in combination. Just doing B6 or just doing magnesium, without sulfate and molybdenum will just be eating amines, which will then build up. Food is holistic nutrition, which includes the inherent enzymes in whole foods. I believe that administering supplements is like the blindfolded committee trying to describe the elephant.

Whole eggs or egg yolks? Most folks are intolerant to the egg whites. Again, it is an amine issue. So, the body needs to be able to rid the excess amines. There are nutrients which must be present for that to occur. We've identified some of them. I just don't believe in "Science" as all knowing. Same with the bifidum bacteria. I LOVE bifidum bacteria and recognize that most of us have dysfunctional guts because of inadequate bifidum inoculation at birth, and many have missed the bifidum from breast milk, and we generally don't consume the foods which help bifidum to proliferate and colonize our guts.

My understanding is that there are foods which support reproduction of bifidum in the gut, inherently. And which nurture an environment for bifidum to thrive. To constantlly add bifidum to an environment which isn't condusive to its survival is an expensive alternative. One which any manufacture will ha$$ily suggest. Although, the gut has 400+ other unidentified and identified microbials. Bifidum in isolation isn't a holy grail, imo.

But, alkaline forming foods http://www.mothering.com/discussions...s#post12677273, coconut oil http://www.mothering.com/discussions...a#post12706671, healthy HCL support in the stomach http://www.mothering.com/discussions...s#post12742859, whole food probiotics in an acid medium which displace and replace candida http://www.autismcoach.com/Saccharom...0Boulardii.htm, whole food enzymes which are in raw and fermented and cultured foods to *nourish* the gut eco-system are my route. http://www.transformyourhealth.com/w...insarticle.htm Honey also supports the reproduction of bifidum bacteria in the gut. And some raw, unheated honey has bifidum, even! http://www.mothering.com/discussions...&postcount=125

But, nothing in isolation sounds like a solution, neither avoidance or supplementation. Same with the use of antibiotics, probiotics alter the balance of nature, and leads to a cascade of further disruption to nature's path of rebalancing the gut.

What I've seen is that probiotic specificity is becoming more precise in the research studies. "We" are more able to isolate individual microflora and contain it for administration through a controlled artificial route, such as a capsule (vs. placebo). Instead of testing (generic) "probiotics", the studies are being done on individual strains of microflora. My concern is that those isolated microflora don't generally occur in nature *in isolation*. Thus, the underlying gut imbalance isn't being identified. The studies are not "real life".

From what I've read about kefir, for example, is that the isolated microbial strains, in combination can not recreate the same product, as the whole symbiotic colony. 'The whole is greater than the sum of the parts' theory. These smallest differences in the specifics of some experiments in the "studies" lead me to embrace whole food alternatives. I understand that dire times, compel dire choices.

Again the studies are on both ends of the spectrum: isolated strains of microflora and generic "probiotics". The limitation of attempting to identify the relevant variable "requires" isolating the manipulated variable. I wonder if dissecting the whole, destroys the actual "part" that is of most benefit.

I trust our amazing bodies to have evolved to address diseases naturally, more than I trust our medical system to create a "solution" which is appropriate and safe for every body.


Pat

[ellasmama2007]

Originally Posted by caedmyn

She's intolerant to eggs. She actually eats quite a bit of meat, I just let her have however much she wants. She won't eat liver, and it's generally too high in food chemicals, anyway...same with greens. That's one of the reasons why I supplement, because it's very difficult to find foods that she can have that are high in the nutrients I want her to have. I've never had any success for either of us with fermented foods/cultured drinks/etc, only with certain probiotics. Fermented foods may be stronger than probiotics, but unless they contain the strains you need, they don't do any good. And none of them contain bifidus strains, so if that's what you need, you have to get it from probiotics.

caedmyn, my dd tends to have mushy stool too. it only darkened and became formed when i started giving her goat milk kefir. when i stop the kefir, her stool goes back to sweet-potato(what she eats) colored mush. i know you said your dd is intolerant to dairy and that you've tried the probiotic food route, but *for us* the bottled probs didnt do squat. we tried diff ones for months and months with not one ounce of improvement anywhere. could you give coconut kefir a shot maybe?
i can tell you've tried a ton of things and that your support system isnt helping you with healing measures .

[caedmyn]

Originally Posted by WuWei

One theory is to avoid the chemical sensitivity. Another is to support the body to remove the chemicals effectively. That depends upon many adequate "nutrients" in combination. Just doing B6 or just doing magnesium, without sulfate and molybdenum will just be eating amines, which will then build up.

As far as I can tell, everyone has a predetermined genetic tolerance for food chemicals. You can optimize that tolerance through nutrition/supplements, and it can be lowered by exposure to various toxins, illness, hormonal changes, and other things, but no matter have many nutrients you pump in you're not going to exceed your genetic capacity to detox food chemicals. Part of the problem is that today we tend to eat far more food chemicals than people have historically eaten, and we just weren't made to handle unlimited amounts of food chemicals.

Whole eggs or egg yolks? Most folks are intolerant to the egg whites. Again, it is an amine issue.

I haven't tried her with just the yolks yet. It was an egg trial that started her off on this whole path of horrible digestion, so I'm not too keen on trying them again. Plus they cause digestive problems, and with her current digestive problems, I'm not going to be able to tell if she's reacting to them or not.

What do eggs have to do with an amine issue?

But, nothing in isolation sounds like a solution, neither avoidance or supplementation. Same with the use of antibiotics, probiotics alter the balance of nature, and leads to a cascade of further disruption to nature's path of rebalancing the gut.

IMO when things are already out of whack, sometimes you need specific, targeted interventions to correct them. I've tried the whole "whole foods" route and it just didn't work. I have used tons and tons of herbal infusions, among other things, and they didn't do a thing. I have, sometimes, actually seen results from supplements, so I have some faith that they're actually accomplishing something.

From what I've read about kefir, for example, is that the isolated microbial strains, in combination can not recreate the same product, as the whole symbiotic colony. 'The whole is greater than the sum of the parts' theory. These smallest differences in the specifics of some experiments in the "studies" lead me to embrace whole food alternatives. I understand that dire times, compel dire choices.

Again the studies are on both ends of the spectrum: isolated strains of microflora and generic "probiotics". The limitation of attempting to identify the relevant variable "requires" isolating the manipulated variable. I wonder if dissecting the whole, destroys the actual "part" that is of most benefit.

In theory I agree that whole foods should be best. But in practice, at least for us, they just haven't worked. I have tried more than a dozen different fermented things--from sauerkraut to kimchi to water kefir, milk kefir, coconut milk kefir, kombucha, pickles, fermented cabbage juice, etc. I have more digestive problems now than I did before I started all those things! So IME whole foods probiotics certainly can screw up the gut flora. And all those fermented foods didn't get rid of DD's blood-in-the-stool caused by her dairy intolerance when she was EBF. B. infantis did. VSL3 helped my digestive problems. S. boulardii has helped me, too. Jarrow's FemDophilus finally got rid of the butt crack rash that DD has had since she was 10 days old.

Are whole food probiotics better than isolate strains of probiotics? I don't know...it would be interesting to see the results if someone ever did a study using kefir, or water kefir, or sauerkraut. IMO it really doesn't matter. If whole foods probiotics work for you, use them. If probiotic capsules, etc work, use those. Unfortunately there's no one thing that works for everyone.

[caedmyn]

Originally Posted by ellasmama2007

caedmyn, my dd tends to have mushy stool too. it only darkened and became formed when i started giving her goat milk kefir. when i stop the kefir, her stool goes back to sweet-potato(what she eats) colored mush. i know you said your dd is intolerant to dairy and that you've tried the probiotic food route, but *for us* the bottled probs didnt do squat. we tried diff ones for months and months with not one ounce of improvement anywhere. could you give coconut kefir a shot maybe?
i can tell you've tried a ton of things and that your support system isnt helping you with healing measures .

She's actually intolerant to coconut, too...or was at a year, haven't trialed it. It's got loads of food chemicals, anyway. I've tried water kefir but she won't drink anything but water. She doesn't even like juice. Maybe I'll try giving her sauerkraut again. She might tolerate it in small doses, if I can get her to eat it.

[ellasmama2007]

hmmm, ok youve tried water kefir with her. i was wondering about that myself. i wasnt sure if i should try that with dd cause i detect a tiny bit of alcohol in my batches.

sorry, we cant do coconut either, or cabbage. i like fennel fermented, but i dont think i could get dd to eat any ferments yet.
ive been taking vsl3 for months and it didnt help me at all, but im really glad its helping you. you're the first one ive seen taking it besides us

[caedmyn]

Originally Posted by whoMe

http://www.brianpalmerdds.com/frenum.htm
the narrow palate/crowded teeth sounds like a tongue tie issue. Panserborne is the expert there. Did you ever have her evaluated?

No, we don't do well baby checks. It seems like most peds just look for obvious tongue ties, anyway (from what I've heard), and she doesn't have an obvious one.

If it is, then tongue tie is an indicator of high homocysteine levels in *you.* Which would indicate that the methyl cycle is blocked somehow, which would mean you don't have as many methyl groups running around as you should.

I did most of the things you mentioned in a previous post for a few months before DS was conceived, and took folate (5-MTHF form I think it's called) the whole pregnancy and I think he is going to have the same issues as DD as far as the narrow palate. He has reflux, too, which apparently can be contribued to or caused by a tongue tie, but again he doesn't have an obvious tongue tie. I did contact a LC to see about evaluating him for tongue tie but she said she'd only look for obvious ones.

from http://heartfixer.com/AMRI-Nutrigenomics.htm:
"We need methyl groups to silence viral RNA, to defend against other microbes, and to defend against environmental toxins." Somehow this process is linked to dopamine, but I'm not sure of the specifics. Just that lower dopamine is supposed to be worse.

I think we both have low dopamine...we're both a little spacey! I guess I need to look into ways to raise dopamine levels.

Maybe I'll try more folate & magnesium again and see if that helps DD fight off the bugs.

On forms of B12: at that heartfixer link, read about MTR and MTRR. Basically, the two enzymes work together to give you a ready supply of methyl-B12. Depending on your genes and how fast each works, there can be a dramatic difference between methylcobalamin and hydroxycobalamin.

I'm pretty sure I did try methyl B12 with DD and didn't notice any difference, so I think the hydroxy does work better for her.

If these detox pathways aren't balanced, serotonin and dopamine aren't going to be at optimal levels. They're both closely tied to digestion. And as you know, if digestion is out of whack, then it's easy to get further nutrient deficiencies.

We're probably screwed then. I'm pretty much out of ideas on how to fix either of our digestive issues. We'd probably both be better off going grain-free but grain-free & Failsafe with no dairy, eggs, or nuts (DS appears to react to all of those, too, except I haven't trialed nuts or amines yet with him...and he reacts to sulfur which DD doesn't) just isn't doable.

[lil_miss_understood]

I think we both have low dopamine...we're both a little spacey! I guess I need to look into ways to raise dopamine levels.

I feel a little like we're pulling a virgin chicken routine on you, but..
Per whoMe's research, if your vitamin D levels are low, so will be your dopamine.

[WuWei]

Originally Posted by caedmyn

I think we both have low dopamine...we're both a little spacey! I guess I need to look into ways to raise dopamine levels.

Dopamine is made from the amino acid tyrosine. Once produced, dopamine can, in turn, convert into the brain chemicals norepinephrine and epinephrine.

Phenylalanine
to
Tyrosine
to
L-Dopa
to
Dopamine
to
Norepinephrine
to
Epinephrine

"Food sources of dopamine increasing tyrosine include almonds, avocados, bananas, dairy products, lima beans, pumpkin seeds, and sesame seeds.

Dopamine is easily oxidized. Foods that are rich in antioxidants such as fruits and vegetables may help protect dopamine-using neurons from free radical damage. Many healthcare professionals recommend supplementing with vitamins C, vitamin E, and other antioxidants."

The brain cells which "manufacture" dopamine use l-phenylalanine as a "raw material" (precursor.) Phenylanine is an essential amino acid found in the brain and blood plasma that can convert in the body to tyrosine, which in turn is used to synthesize dopamine. Sources of phenylanine are high-protein foods such as meat, cottage cheese, and wheat germ.


10 Foods That Help To Increase
Dopamine And Norepinephrine Naturally!

Apples: A compound found in apples called "quercetin' is an antioxidant that studies have shown may not only help in the prevention of cancer but may also play an important role in the prevention of neurodegenerative disorders.
There may be something to that old saying, "An apple a day keeps the doctor away . . ."


Banana: A banana is a good source of tyrosine. Tyrosine is the amino acid neurons turn into norepinephrine and dopamine. Norepinephrine and dopamine are excitatory neurotransmitters that are important in motivation, alertness, concentration and memory.

Beets: Betaine, an amino acid naturally present in certain vegetables, particularly beetroot (beets), is an antidepressant of the first order. Betaine acts as a stimulant for the production of SAM-e (S-adenoslmethionine). The body cannot do without SAM-e, which it produces.
SAM-e is directly related to the production of certain hormones, such as dopamine and serotonin. Dopamine is responsible for feelings of well-being and pleasure.


Chicken: Chicken, like eggs, contains complete protein that increases levels of the excitatory neurotransmitters norepinephrine and dopamine. Chicken is also a good source of coenzyme Q10 (Co Q10), which increases the energy generating potential of neurons.

Cheese: Cheese is a well known protein food . . . Protein provides amino acids, which help produce dopamine and norepinephrine.

Cottage Cheese: One of the “must eat” foods on every expert’s list, cottage cheese is recommended as a substitute for other soft cheeses and dairy products. Cottage cheese provides the protein that can help boost mood and energy levels, without some of the fat of hard cheeses.

Eggs: Research from the University of California, Berkeley suggests that people who suffer from depression have low amount of serotonin, norepinephrine and dopamine in their brains. One natural antidepressant is to increase dopamine by eating protein-rich foods. such as eggs for this purpose, because they are versatile and appeal to some people who choose not to eat meat.

Fish: Omega-3 fatty acids are found in seafood, especially mackerel, salmon, striped bass, rainbow trout, halibut, tuna, and sardines.
These fatty acids may have many jobs in the body, including a possible role in the production of neurotransmitters. Fish have easily digestible protein, many trace nutrients, high quality essential fatty acids, low cholesterol levels and low saturated fat levels.

French scientists have shown that rats deficient in omega-3 fatty acids had more receptors for the neurotransmitter serotonin and a corresponding decrease in dopamine in the frontal cortex.


Watermelon: Watermelon juice is fat free and loaded with vitamins A, B6, and C! Vitamin B6 is used by the body to manufacture neurotransmitters such as serotonin, melatonin, and dopamine. Vitamin C also enhances the immune system while protecting the body from free radicals.

Wheat Germ: Wheat Germ is a good source of Phenylalanine. Phenylalanine is an essential amino acid found in the brain and blood plasma that can convert in the body to tyrosine, which in turn is used to synthesize dopamine.
A healthy, balanced diet is rich in whole “natural” and unprocessed foods. It is especially high in plant foods, such as fruits, vegetables, grains, beans, seeds and nuts. Fruits are vegetables are rich in fiber, vitamins, minerals, antioxidants that protect the body cells from damaging. They also help raise serotonin levels in the brain.

Beans and legumes are rich in protein and are healthful boosters of both dopamine and norepinephrine. Also, Protein Meat, Milk, Eggs, Cheese, fish and other seafood are very healthy, high-protein, dopamine-and-norepinephrine-booster food.

http://www.integrativepsychiatry.net/dopamine.html
http://www.medhelp.org/user_journals/show/14818


Supplement your diet with foods rich in antioxidants. Free radicals lower dopamine levels in the body, and antioxidants eliminate free radicals. Most vegetables and fruits contain some antioxidants, with red beans, blueberries, cranberries, artichokes, prunes and strawberries topping the list.

Foods that are rich in protein can boost Dopamine very quickly (within minutes even).
Fish, red meat, chicken, turkey, eggs, beans and legumes, fermented soy like tempeh and miso, and beverages like coffee, black tea, green tea and milk all raise both dopamine and norepinephrine levels. Seeds such as Sunflower, Pumpkin and Milk Thistle also boost dopamine and norepinephrine levels.
There are various herbs that will also increase Dopamine levels in the brain. Examples are:
Ginseng
Nettles
Red clover
Fenugreek
Peppermint


Pat