detox pathway guinea pig

[Theloose]

Ok. I think I'm ready. But first I have a couple of questions I need to sort through.

Do I ramp up or do it all at once?
Do I start dd first (nursing 2yo), or both of us together?
How long till I start to see results?
Are high supplement amounts of nutrients required, or can I do this with food alone?How do I wean off of the megadoses of vitamins I currently need to avoid fights?

What's really cool is:
-how simple and straightforward my nutrient list is
-how the foods high in those nutrients are DD's FAVORITE FOODS (including brussels sprouts, broth, roe...)
-how so many of the foods we're eating now are on the right track, and I still love eating them despite not changing the short list in the past 2+ months

[kortner]

Oh, exciting!

Is DD on supplements? (I guess via bm?) I was going to say it might be clearer for just her, but probably not, hm.

Would ramping give you any clearer picture? How long did supplements take for you to feel effects? Can you make a weaning to food / vitamin content conversion? Like reduce supps while increasing whole food nutrients needed?

I love brussels sprouts - do you roast them (tossed in olive oil)? They taste like french fries.

[Theloose]

She's on my supps through milk. She also enjoys sucking on magnesium citrate and methyl B12 lozenges, and I let her.

My thought on ramping was to not release toxins too quickly. One paper I was reading talked about too high of a dosage of folate builds up toxin momentum - so if you don't like the side effects, you're stuck with them for longer.

The main supplements are pantothenic acid (B5) + B complex. I can miss about a day, but after that I get grouchy. In theory, as the other pathways open up I should be able to cut back on the B5. Without the B5, I don't (think I) need the complex.


Tonight we had brussels sprouts, cut in half, cut side browned in ghee, then simmered in broth. Served with gravy made from bone broth (folate, calcium D-glucurate, betaine, methionine, EFAs... detox power meal!) Then dd asked for roe and water kefir for dessert. This is fun!

[menomena]

subbing!

[lil_miss_understood]

subbing too.

[changingseasons]

:

[Theloose]

My plan

[Theloose]

So our plan for dd is to provide lots of choices of foods that are high in the nutrients I think she's likely to be low in. And completely let her choose what she wants to eat. Today she ate a half a bar's worth of dark chocolate that dh got for valentine's day, but some of it had soy lecithin. Then she ate an avocado and a half. We hadn't been doing either because of amines and salicylates.

I swapped supplements - Stress B complex is replaced with thiamine and riboflavin. So now I'm taking those, plus pantothenic acid, PLP (active B6), biotin and magnesium citrate.

For lunch, we had lentils (high folate, new food) and rice.

Naptime didn't happen, and then she was totally out of sorts, then saying her tummy and her nose felt sick, then crying (protesting) while I wrapped her up and 'forced' her to nap. And woke up happy after a normal-length nap.

So I think she's reacting to something. I was a little gassy myself. My two suspects are chocolate/soy lecithin and lentils, but it was so soon after the lentils, I'm leaning towards soy lecithin. Everything's going to stay on the menu except for chocolate for the next week.

[WuWei]

Did you soak the lentils first? They become more digestible and have more bio-available nutrients. Save the soak water for making broth.

I highly recommend Amanda Rose's free E-course on soaking to neutralize the anti-nutrient phytic acid: http://www.rebuild-from-depression.c...ytic_acid.html Phytic acid is a strong chelator of a lot of minerals.

Here is an article with a somewhat contrary position, with historical references. http://www.breadbeckers.com/phytic_a...end_or_foe.htm

And a scientific perspective. http://www.sciencedirect.com/science...709f5a9d643f46

ETA: phosphatidylserine- occurs in soy lecithin


Pat

[Theloose]

Thanks. I was thinking lentils were one you *didn't* have to soak, but I'll definitely start! I'm curious about the 'binding to metals' aspect, though... That's a significant part of clearing these detox pathways! Definitely worth looking into more later. I want to open the pathways, then add iodine to bring out toxins. In that phase, I wonder if phytate might be helpful!

[Theloose]

I'm going to post lots of detail here, cause it'll probably be nice to have a record later And because some people learn best by following an example.

Dinner included more avocado cravings for dd, more lentils, and our beet test Dd loved the beets.

Avocados are high in folate and B6!

Thankfully, dd's been more or less her usual self since waking up.

[Punchy Kaby]

Subbing...Interesting thread.

Have you considered using digestive enzymes to help you get all you can out of the food you eat?

Do you use epsom salt baths to help detox?

[Theloose]

Originally Posted by Nolansmum

Subbing...Interesting thread.

Have you considered using digestive enzymes to help you get all you can out of the food you eat?

Do you use epsom salt baths to help detox?

I totally relied on digestive enzymes for several months - I had lost my ability to digest carbs. Starting vitamins (B5, B complex) let me off the enzymes for about a month, then I needed them again. Adding biotin, I've been off of them for a few months now and I think it's what I was needing. I don't have other (obvious) indicators that I'm not absorbing well, so I choose fewer supplements

We do epsom salt baths about once a week, but I can't say I've noticed much of anything from doing them.

[menomena]

how'd the beet pee test go?

(I COMPLETELY and spectacularly failed mine yesterday after passing a few weeks ago... I wonder what that means.)

[WuWei]

Originally Posted by menomena

how'd the beet pee test go?

(I COMPLETELY and spectacularly failed mine yesterday after passing a few weeks ago... I wonder what that means.)

That happened to me when I wasn't drinking my kefir as much, or eating as many fermented vegetables. The ph of the stomach (HCl) is relevant, iirc. (tired, up too late reading about this stuff. Found this fascinating article, which JaneS told me to read two years ago. )

http://www.enzymestuff.com/methylation.htm


Pat

[Theloose]

I get an A- The only time I know that I failed it was when we were at our lowest, allergy/nutrition-wise last year.

As far as I know, dd passed hers too. And dh thinks he passed his, which would be a first!

My understanding (and I forget what I learned where or from who) is that zinc is needed to make HCl. HCl is needed to activate an enzyme that breaks down the beet pigment. So if your pee turns red, something along that chain is broken.

Other things can stimulate HCl release. One of those things is histamine. There is histamine in sauerkraut, so I'm assuming it's a fermented thing, and that's why kefir and fermented veggies make a difference.

HCl is also necessary to break down proteins for digestion - inadequate HCl is part of the factor in the opoid factor of gluten and casein. Which would probably explain why I could just go GFCF and not look back so many moons ago - no addiction whatsoever.

[menomena]

Interesting. I definitely have the opioid addiction thing to gluten & dairy.

per the taste-testing thingie I did, my HCl is seriously low. the citric acid tasted SWEET to me.

I also cannot digest grains. They go straight through me. Yuck. (I eat them though, otherwise, my food bill is like $250/wk for me to feel full otherwise.) If I take enzymes, I do okay.

Okay, I just put that link Pat posted in another tab. Hopefully I will be able to read it later today.

Oh!! last time I had beets I also had kombucha that day. Woah.

[Theloose]

Originally Posted by menomena

per the taste-testing thingie I did, my HCl is seriously low. the citric acid tasted SWEET to me.

I volunteer at a farm, giving tours for school field trips. One of the things we do is taste rhubarb - it's like sour candy. Some of the kids love it and some can't stand it. Last year, it didn't really taste sour to me at all. This year I can't handle it.

Dd LOVES it.

hmmm...

[menomena]

Oooh. I LOVE rhubarb. I make a fabulous rhubarb-spinach sauce thingie to put over chicken & rice noodles. DH haaaaaaaaates it. Haaaaates. Lol But when we did the taste test the citric acid was way sour for him.

[Theloose]

Wait, there's another variable here. In that time, I've also been healing my adrenals. My aldosterone has shown signs of going from low (salt cravings, neon yellow pee with riboflavin) to more normal (normal salt intake, no more neon pee). The kidneys use aldosterone to balance acid/base. So that's probably closely tied in as well! What causes what and what's just correlational, I have no idea