:innocent what is your take on nurse-ins

[lulu1213]

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[beru]

The poll question is hard for me to answer. I don't think they are radical really. But they should still be a last resort. What is the purpose of a nurse-in? I thought it was to bring to people's attention to the problems moms have nursing in public or to educate on why this is an important right to protect. That is a positive message. If planned correctly, with clear goals, nurse-ins are great. If the public doesn't understand the message than it is not useful (although I know many ignorant people will not get the message no matter how well it is done).

If the (reasonably minded part of the) public perceives the nurse-in as a vigilante action, that doesn't promote our cause. That's one reason they should be a last resort. If nurse-ins are done after thoughtful negotiation and dialogue than it demonstrates that we are looking for solutions and not being reactionary. Secondly, I believe as nurse-ins become more frequent they are losing their power. We should be conservative with them in that regard.

This Denny's nurse-in makes me uneasy mostly because it seems so rushed. It takes a lot of hard work and I think the Denny's mom is suffering from a lot of stress, never mind the original stress of the incident. I wish she didn't think that she had to act fast. I have stayed quiet on the other thread trying to be patient and see how the planning pans out...At this point I support the mom. She made the choice that a nurse-in is the action she wants to take. It's not the action I would take at this stage but I would still support a nurse-in at her local Denny's if I lived nearby. I don't know if I would support a nurse-in at other national locations, though.

[annettemarie]

I can't answer your poll either. I think they are a form of protest, I don't think they're radical. But I think they are so much more.

To me, the purpose of a nurse-in (or any form of lactivism, really) is to effect change and promote and normalize breastfeeding. It can be a way of saying "Hey, you were way out of line" but there has to be more to it than that.

Acting hastily, out of anger, with an aim to punish or humiliate someone, a company, whatever, isn't going to make a difference, IMO. I don't think it brings breastfeeding to the public in a positive manner.

That said, I understand the raw emotions behind being publicly humiliated for breastfeeding your child. I cannot begin to imagine how I would feel if it happened to me. I'd probably want someone's head on a platter as well. And at the end of a day, I would support a mother as best I could, even if she decided on a course of action I disagreed with, and even if I didn't feel it was something I could personally participate in.

[mamajake]

"Radical" needs to be defined. It is a relative term. "Radical" and "negative" don't go together, in my opinion.

[lulu1213]

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[PatioGardener]

I agree with the PPs. I see nurse-ins as an important educational tool. IMO, one best used sparingly for most impact.

When law enforcement was involved in the initial incident I think we have to be really careful. I have seen what happens when those used to being in a position of power are cornered publically. Often they dig their heels in and make the situation worse for all involved. When approached with educational information (with police, info on the very laws that they should be enforcing to protect breastfeeding) these same professionals can use the opportunity to educate their own and the public. I'm under the impression this is what happened in the latest incident in Ontario when the police asked a MDC Mama to leave a restaurant for breastfeeding. That situation had a very positive outcome thanks to that Mama who used a horrible situation to educate the police.

I feel that those who 'done wrong' should be given the opportunity to apologize, correct their actions and learn from them. When a nurse-in is needed it is a fantastic way to promote breastfeeding in calm, powerful and very public way. If we have nurse-ins without attempting to educate first, I worry that 1) the public will get tired of them and see them as an over-reaction thereby decreasing public acceptance of NIP and 2) those descriminating against the Mama who NIPed will feel humiliated, shamed and angry rather than being educated and change their ways.

[elizaMM]

Originally Posted by annettemarie

Acting hastily, out of anger, with an aim to punish or humiliate someone, a company, whatever, isn't...

...ethical, in my opinion.

At first glance, a nurse-in sounds fantastic. And it is. If the place really deserves it. If a place is categorically anti-NIPing (like facebook), they deserve it. But not if one, or even a few employees, made a mistake, out of ignorance.

BTW, I haven't read the Denny's thread.

[MittensKittens]

I voted yes. There is nothing wrong with radical IMO though, and I think nurse ins are great.

[christyc]

I think my response is more along the lines of "who gives a crap" instead of yes or no. I don't think they're all that radical, but my concern isn't over what's radical or not, it's over women being able to feed their hungry babies without fear of being treated like second class citizens due to society's Victorian, prudish remnants.

[Rosehip]

I think nursing a baby is so...normal that it boggles the mind to think it would be considered radical. But what do I know? My DD & I participated in the View nurse-in several years ago.

[In Exile]

Educating people is certainly key. But then again- no civil rights or human rights came "easy" just by educating people and hoping they will see "their errors". Sometimes it just does not work that way. There are plenty of people who have heard forever how breast is best etc- yet they will use any opportunity to express their personal feelings of "breastfeeding being gross".

Overcoming open and legal rassism in this country certainly did not happen because somebody patiently waited and waited for people to get a "clue".

Human rights and civil rights are always fought for in an more aggressive way. Education people is always a part of it, absolutely, but there will be the point of saying "look, you KNOW what is right and what is wrong-when you act WRONG now you will have to deal with the consequences".

Nurse-ins don't "just happen" out of the blue. Usually a family got humiliated, trashed and discussed everywhere. A lot of companies don't seem to "get it" until there realized, ooops, there are many women out there and they nurse. It's bad PR and if the affected family does not get an apology a nurse-in is in order. How long does the OP have to wait for a simple apology?? How much "education" is her burden? We are talking about the POLICE, at this point they know their wrong doing, issue an apology.

For those that refuse to be educated and change their ways-well, at least a nurse-in is bad PR for them and if that's the only way for them to stop discriminating people? Well, too bad for them. Absolutely educate them- if they still refuse to do the right thing oh well.

A nurse-in is just a gathering of women nursing- not doing something "bad", why would that be something of last resort?

There was plenty of controversy floating around surrounding the latest Denny's case- more than enough time to issue AT LEAST an apology and promise betterment.

[PiesandAbrosmama]

Perhaps it's more about the "tone" of a nurse in? We want this cause and human right to be normalized not thought of as the crazy fringe group of mothers and women who will shove this down everyone's throat, that though I don't think is the case with nurse in's can be percieved by the media as such. I have participated in them before and will again but I will try "positive" ave's first-
also though sometimes I think it's the squeaky wheel that gets the greese and being very "present" is good to also have out there-this will not be permitted we will be given basic human rights

[runes]

I posted in that thread, and hope that you didn't misconstrue my post over there.

I did not respond to the poll because the answers do not accurately characterize my response. For the most part, I do think that nurse-ins can be positive opportunities for education of the public as well as companies and law enforcement.

When done correctly.

I do believe that there is a "right" and a "wrong" way to conduct a nurse-in. Giving adequate time for the company to respond and act (and hopefully rectify the situation) is important. Contacting the media in an organized fashion is also key. Galvanizing a group of supporters is also crucial.

It actually hurts our cause to not do it correctly.

And I don't think nurse-ins are particularly "radical".

[Sagesgirl]

'Departing markedly from the usual or customary; extreme'

By that definition, yes, yes they are radical. And this is a wonderful thing. It is useful, IMO, for nurse-ins to be radical. That's what prompts change. When those black students sat down at the Woolworth's lunch counter and refused to leave, don't you think that was radical? And yet, it was peaceful, it was well within the First Amendment, and it raised awareness of the issue in a way no amount of letter writing campaigns or lawsuits possibly could have. When gays and lesbians went to City Hall in San Francisco to obtain marriage licenses when Gavin Newsome decided to issue them in defiance of state law, don't you think that was radical? And yet, again, it created awareness of the issue.

While I will agree that nurse-ins are very often portrayed negatively in the media...quite frankly, that's their problem, not ours. The media has its own pet causes, and woe betide unto those who have a different set of priorities. Just because something you do isn't portrayed favorably doesn't mean there's something wrong with it. No way am I going to let the negative opinion of the folks who brought us the all missing white women all the time "news" affect my desire to do what is right.

[Burnindinner]

Originally Posted by annettemarie

I don't think it brings breastfeeding to the public in a positive manner.

This

Originally Posted by PatioGardener

... and 2) those descriminating against the Mama who NIPed will feel humiliated, shamed and angry rather than being educated and change their ways.

This

Originally Posted by elizaMM

At first glance, a nurse-in sounds fantastic. And it is. If the place really deserves it. If a place is categorically anti-NIPing (like facebook), they deserve it. But not if one, or even a few employees, made a mistake, out of ignorance.

And that. I'd reply but y'all said it.

[jessjgh1]

I always have to remind myself of the terminology between Nurse-In and Nurse-Out. I perfer the Nurse-Out philosophy, but I do think a well-organized protest can be an important tool to use when an incident comes up.

Jessica

[tbone_kneegrabber]

I am a protestor by nature. I have been locked down in the street. I have been carried away by the police for protesting. So frankly asking some other folks I know who breastfeed to all go and nurse in the same location at the same time, is not on radar as "radical"

I DO NOT think they are a last resort. I think this idea that we have to be so polite and we don't want to embarrass people etc is just not where I am coming from, also it is very much the way women are socialize, not to embarrass to be polite etc I'm not that into it.

I'm all for calls to action. I'm all for writing a quick press release emailing to local news and going somewhere that I think has done something "wrong"

But I think I would also be willing to get arrest for it.

[tbone_kneegrabber]

And another thing, the feeling that I got from a lot of the posts in "that other thread" and some here really bother me. I don't think *you* get to tell me how *I* get to protest something! I think its great if you want to call and write and whatever for a while before having a nurse-in, that's fine you can do that. But I reserve the right to do it when I want to.

I think the only person who can say "please don't do the nurse in yet" is if there was a single person who was discriminated against and they want to handle it their way, but as soon as several people are involved, or a company does something systematically, (or it happens to me!) I will do what I want to do, and you don't get to tell me what I can do.

It is very problematic to me that people feel like the have the "right" to tell someone they can or can't protest something because they haven't written enough letters or whatever yet.

You can write your senator if you want (and I hope you do!) but I'm marching in the street against war!

[In Exile]

Thanks kneegraber! Kind of my feelings. I always find it troubling to tell someone else whether it's "enough" to go out and protest. Going out on the street and making yourself heard is a basic right and that somebody feels "disturbed" by that is kind of the point.

I never hoped to be arrested or anything like that by I have taken to street numerous times because sometimes that's just what you have do you. The civil rights movement would have never taken off if people would have patiently sat back and written letters. There are laws, letters have been written- some people won't get it otherwise, sadly- so they need see with their own eyes that it's not okay to discriminate against a breastfeeding mom.

[julie128]

I said 'yes,' but I don't think that radical is the same as bad. Black voter drives in the South were radical, for example.