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My 10yo made an online purchase

post #1 of 25
Thread Starter 
My 10yo son made an online purchase without my permission last night. He signed up for a club pogo account and agreed to pay $43+ dollars for a year's subscription using their pay-by-cash option through hyperwallet. He used a fake last name and birthdate.

I found this out because he has his own e-mail account but I have it set so copies of all his mail is forwarded to mine.

When I asked him about it he lied and said he didn't do it. After admitting it he said it was only $30 and it was only later I looked at the details and saw it was more.

I'm still trying to find out if I need to cancel this or if pogo will cancel it when they don't receive payment. If he had just asked me I would have let him play games on my pogo account or given him a free guest pass.

I'm obviously concerned this is only the first step to stealing credit card numbers from my wallet to pay for things.

What should his consequences be?
post #2 of 25
I think I'd tell him that you WOULD HAVE let him use your pogo account, but now you won't. Since he tried to sign up for a 12 month subscription, I'd deny him access to pogo for a year. Not that I have any idea what pogo is, but it seems logical to me that, by trying to fake his way into something, that's the 'something' he should lose as punishment.

Explain that what he did was fraud, and an adult could go to jail for this.

It's probably best to contact pogo and let them know what happened, even if it's not absolutely necessary.
post #3 of 25
:

Ruthla said it all. It's very important he understands the seriousness of it all too.

ETA: I would also contact pogo and explain what happened and cancel the account. Since there is no way to verify that it wasn't you or your DH at the computer setting up the account I would want to head off any potential legal problems.
post #4 of 25
I don't know if I agree with the advice given already.

Sounds like this could be a great learning experience instead of a, "you could of but now you can't."

Our kids are growing up in such a different technological world than we did and we're going to have to navigate these waters together. I know how easy it is to sign up for things I want and I too put in fake names sometimes. He is at an age where money isn't so real and certainly he doesn't understand how that all works.

Why not have a really great informative learning session and in the middle of all that you can explain why you don't want him to do that again. Or why you need him to not do that again. Then maybe brainstorm on ways for him earn that money and take the steps together to pay for the site he wants. (granted you approve of him doing that.)

The times I felt best supported (and also most willing to listen) from my parents was when they were inquisitive, helpful, understanding and clear about how they felt or what they needed for me.

Had this already been talked about in your family? Had he asked and you told him no already?
post #5 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by flowers View Post
I don't know if I agree with the advice given already.

Sounds like this could be a great learning experience instead of a, "you could of but now you can't."

Our kids are growing up in such a different technological world than we did and we're going to have to navigate these waters together. I know how easy it is to sign up for things I want and I too put in fake names sometimes. He is at an age where money isn't so real and certainly he doesn't understand how that all works.

Why not have a really great informative learning session and in the middle of all that you can explain why you don't want him to do that again. Or why you need him to not do that again. Then maybe brainstorm on ways for him earn that money and take the steps together to pay for the site he wants. (granted you approve of him doing that.)

The times I felt best supported (and also most willing to listen) from my parents was when they were inquisitive, helpful, understanding and clear about how they felt or what they needed for me.

Had this already been talked about in your family? Had he asked and you told him no already?
: Great advice.
post #6 of 25
I totally disagree with the previous advise to be supportive and it is just a different world. He totally lied, both to you and pogo place. So he knew what he was doing was wrong.

This in and of itself is something to be dealt with.

If a purchase had been made without the lies and deceit, that would have been one thing. My daughter did that once, an act of stupidity or ignorance, which ever you want to term it. We dealt with it in the appropriate manner, canceling the account and then allowing access as we deemed appropriate.

But when dealing with deliberate lies and deception, that is a whole other issue, and one that is NOT just because of the different world they are being raised in. Another daughter did something along this line and she was banned from the computer for a month. After that she was allowed back with limited privilages and total supervision. She has since earned our trust back and now has access to some of the things that she did on her own. But this was after we had good discussions about it, a suitable punishment for her behaviour, and her showing us she was trustworthy.
post #7 of 25
I agree it's serious and needs to be dealt with, but I would fear that 'forbidding use' could lead to more deception and lies. If he really wants to play, then he may choose to sneak around and find another way to get what he wants which could lead him closer to the kind of behavior you AREN'T wanting instead of helping him understand the severity of it.
post #8 of 25
Quote:
I'm still trying to find out if I need to cancel this or if pogo will cancel it when they don't receive payment.
you need to call pogo & cancel it. If not it'll come back to YOU & DH, affect your credit, etc.

OR make him pay it for the next 12 months out of his own money.

You need to sit him down & talk to him about what is & is not okay to be doing online. My 10 yo doesn't sign up for anything without me knowing ahead of time. She doesn't have her own email address yet either.

You need to explain credit to him, that once you hit buy or pay it is a committment to pay for that & until he has an income he can't do it.

IMO it is no different than if he'd seen an ad on tv for a cd or dvd & phoned it up to order it without permission, or started phoning 1-900 numbers & racked up a phone bill.

There do need to be consequences for inappropriate use of the computer, but a year removal from pogo is extreme.
post #9 of 25

Working for money?

I think the pogo account needs to be canceled. I don't think he should have access to the site.

Also, I think maybe he needs to understand the value of money? Maybe not, but possibly do some extra chores? I'm not sure of how the value of money is taught in your household, but it doesn't sound like he understands that the pogo account costs money, that he will need to pay for & earn?

Maybe my post is a little naive. I just feel there definitely has to be consequences & limiting access to the pogo site does NOT seem like a worthy-enough punishment for lying & theft.
post #10 of 25
10-year olds definitely know what a "lie" is. He needs to know that there are consequences....ESPECIALLY in this "techy" world where the lines are drawn sketchily...and yes, I would cancel the account.
post #11 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by MsChatsAlot View Post
I agree it's serious and needs to be dealt with, but I would fear that 'forbidding use' could lead to more deception and lies. If he really wants to play, then he may choose to sneak around and find another way to get what he wants which could lead him closer to the kind of behavior you AREN'T wanting instead of helping him understand the severity of it.
Maybe I am old fashoned, but I think it is a parents job to make rules and enforce them. It also a parents job to teach their children about life, doing what is right, consequences, and so forth.

I would, and have, forbidden use to the computer to my children. And I know where my children are and what they are doing, so there is not sneaking around to find another way.

To be blunt, the computer is mine, and it is a privilage for my children to use it. They can lose that privilage. They can also earn that privilage back. Real life involves serious consequesnces. If someone had done something inappropriate at work, for example, and had lied to his boss about it, his boss would not be worried about him sneaking around and doing it behind his back; he would be out of a job. This is life.

I want my children to understand that their actions have consequenses that are real and can be lasting. I want them to do what is right because it is right, not because they may get caught. They must understand their boundries, their rules, and their responsibilities. And they must understand the differences between rights and privilages.

If they can learn what is right and desire to do it, THEN you can work with them. If they make a mistake, an error in judgement, THEN you can work with them. If they choose to do something deliberatly that is wrong, then you must take action to correct it. If they choose to add on to that wrong with lies and deception, to allow it now just shows that it worked, and it will happen again. Lies and deception are BIG no-no's in my house. To make a mistake is human, to lie and decieve me about it is a fatal mistake.

In the instance of the OP, if my child had made an error in judgement and signed up for something without my knowledge, I would have canceled the service, put consequences in place (probably no computer for a couple of days and under supervision for a week beyond that, and then from there an understanding that it is totally unacceptable to do that, and why).

However, if it was done with deliberate intent (which is shown by his giving them a fake name), deception (shown by him knowingly given false information and not telling you), and lies (telling you he did not know, then giving a wrong amount when confronted), the consequense would be MUCH more severe. I would have banned the computer for no less than 30 days. Canceled the account immediately. Put a password implace on the computer to keep compliance. Banned the site itself (in any form) for no less than 60 days. And mandated a probationary peroid of 30-60 days of supervised computer access to ensure that there were no futher decptions and the lesson had truely been learned.

I know, this may not be the concensus here. But I think children are children and parents are parents. That means that there are rules to be followed, and they are not entitled to privilages. They are to be respectful of authority, honor their parents, be honest and trustworthy, and understand the need of consequences, or at least that they will happen. I think it is my job to teach them about the real world and how to live an honorable life in it.

This episode happened with a 10 year old child. We are not talking about an adlut, or even a teenager that is nearly an adult. A 10 year old needs to learn now that it is wrong.

But that is just MO. But I know I am a bit old fashioned in that department.
post #12 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by flowers View Post
I don't know if I agree with the advice given already.

Sounds like this could be a great learning experience instead of a, "you could of but now you can't."

Our kids are growing up in such a different technological world than we did and we're going to have to navigate these waters together. I know how easy it is to sign up for things I want and I too put in fake names sometimes. He is at an age where money isn't so real and certainly he doesn't understand how that all works.

Why not have a really great informative learning session and in the middle of all that you can explain why you don't want him to do that again. Or why you need him to not do that again. Then maybe brainstorm on ways for him earn that money and take the steps together to pay for the site he wants. (granted you approve of him doing that.)

The times I felt best supported (and also most willing to listen) from my parents was when they were inquisitive, helpful, understanding and clear about how they felt or what they needed for me.

Had this already been talked about in your family? Had he asked and you told him no already?
i 2nd this. im a bit surprised at the absence of gentle dscipline advice being given here.

i hae a 10 yo...if something like this happened, this is the way i would deal with it.

i also give my 10 yo more privacy...i dont look at every email, etc etc.

i do monitor his compter usage but i think he would be upset if i read every email.

just my 2 cents
post #13 of 25
Thread Starter 
We ended up grounding him from all computer for a week. He said "I don't care! I'll just play xbox instead!" so he was also grounded from xbox.

The rule for the past year has been that he can have only one paid online service at a time. He played toontown for a while, cancelled that to play pirates online, and cancelled that to play fusionfall. So he definitely knew he needed permission and that he couldn't have it without cancelling fusionfall first.

Oh, and he knows I read his e-mail and has not complained about it. My MIL likes to tell him things like "I will let you live here all summer if it's okay with your parents! It will be so fun!" and I like to know when that's happening. Whenever he's old enough to ask for privacy I will give it to him.
post #14 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by PassionateWriter View Post
i 2nd this. im a bit surprised at the absence of gentle dscipline advice being given here.

i hae a 10 yo...if something like this happened, this is the way i would deal with it.

i also give my 10 yo more privacy...i dont look at every email, etc etc.

i do monitor his compter usage but i think he would be upset if i read every email.

just my 2 cents
I agree with this.
Also I highly doubt it would have come back around to get you, they probably have a period of x amount of time till money is received then cancel it and block the IP or have cookies or something so you can not do it again. I have done similar things when I was younger or with trials.

I hope you let up as he gets older, though I'm sure he would just make his own email account at that point.
post #15 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by PassionateWriter View Post
i 2nd this. im a bit surprised at the absence of gentle dscipline advice being given here.
I really want to guide my children and have them understand the impact of their actions on themselves, on the family, on others. I make mistakes and hope people will be understanding and compassionate, I expect my children would like the same too.

I like turning things like this into a learning opportunity so it fosters an environment of trust and respect and understanding. It is an opportunity for everyone to re-evaluate and figure out where to go from here. There is a reason this happened and room for learning. I hope you and your family can take something positive from the experience.
post #16 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by PassionateWriter View Post
im a bit surprised at the absence of gentle dscipline advice being given here.
Me too. I must say I am impressed with how computer savvy your 10 year old is. I really don't think consequences work at all. All they do is make him sneakier the next time round so he doesn't get caught. If my child did this, we would most definitely make it a learning experience, so that the next time they feel safe enough to ask before they purchase.
post #17 of 25
To me this is a very serious issue. I would have never dreamed of stealing money from my parents, and by the age of 10 "being young" is not a good enough excuse. Spending their money without as much as asking, and not even feeling bad about it? I don't think GD means no consequences. We are talking about stolen money from your parents!

I would definitely reconsider computer time, and of course it would mean a lot of discussion, you bet'cha we'd be looking into this as a learning opportunity. You bet we'd talk. We'd talk our ears off. heh I'd love to know in what world he thinks it's okay to spend money he didn't earn or received as a gift, and would love to hear his ideas on appropriate consequences that would help him to remember to never still from anyone ever again, and to use the computer within the set rules. How does he expect me to trust him? How does he expect me to want to sign him up for anything on-line? kwim?
post #18 of 25
i dont look at this as a non-serious issue. i simply look at it as a kid who saw something that was attractive to him, and before really thinking about it, he signed up for it b/c he wanted it....ive actually done that before w/ online purchases..the difference is that im an adult and have to pay for my mistakes.

i dont think its unreasonable to allow natural consquences. the bill may or may not need to be paid (after contacting the co...i bet you can get out of it). if it must be paid, the kid can work off teh amount he needs to pay. that will certainly make him think next time. more importantly, i think a serious discussion about clicking "buy now" on things like that are important.

the xbox doesnt have anything to do with the computer...or the "issue" at hand...so its a completely unnatural, and even illogical consequence...it is no way associated w/ the trangression.

i underrstand many use punishments and i guess this isnt the GD forum, so my view may just be out of focus here.

ftr, i have a teenager who had alot of these punishments imposed. they didnt work. they made him much much sneakier.
post #19 of 25
My 10 year old recently filled out one of those "You won an iphone" banners without telling me until days later. He really wants an iphone. I explained to him that those banner ads are scams. It is a way people get information about you. We discussed never filling those out without discussing it with dad or I first. The "what could happen" by filling it out-identity theft, selling of his name to advertising lists, etc. It opened up a discussion that dh and I had neglected to have with him.

Your 10 year old knew what he was doing was wrong and it needs to be explained to him that what he did was fraud and how adults go to jail for it. He also needs to know about broken trust due to his lies and the consequences of breaking that trust. If it was me, I would also limit computer time for awhile and that it is only allowed under supervision. until he earns your trust back.

When my parents came down hard on me as a teen I just got sneakier about what I was doing. I didn't talk to them about anything because anything was an opening to some sort of attack.
post #20 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by PassionateWriter View Post

i dont think its unreasonable to allow natural consquences. the bill may or may not need to be paid (after contacting the co...i bet you can get out of it). if it must be paid, the kid can work off teh amount he needs to pay. that will certainly make him think next time. more importantly, i think a serious discussion about clicking "buy now" on things like that are important.

the xbox doesnt have anything to do with the computer...or the "issue" at hand...so its a completely unnatural, and even illogical consequence...it is no way associated w/ the trangression.
I think xbox came into place when the child made a rude comment, implying what he did was not a big deal, and he didn't mind losing computer because he still had xbox to play with.

I think it is an extremely rude comment, and could be addressed with a natural consequence - losing the access to xbox, since he is not only unapologetic about the whole incident, but he also sees that xbox will carry him through the "tough time". kwim?

I think if it was much less insignificant, maybe going to a website he shouldn't have, it would be one thing, but using your parents' credit cards to buy something? At the age of 10? And not even feeling bad about it?

****

On a side note, this is admittedly my personal take on the issue.
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