Let's talk about USA Today article/HIB vaccine

[lovemybubus]

Here is the link...

http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/...hib-kids_N.htm

Is there a point in childhood where meningitis is no longer considered deadly? I have read some studies that find a link between bacteria in formula and meningitis so is the risk much less for EBF babies? They site some interesting facts in the article about the disease and it's decline. I was born in the 70's and as far as I know none of us were vaccinated for HIB (this is one of the many reasons I have chosen not to vax my kids for this). Just wanted other people's thoughts on the vaccine it's risks, etc..

In Dr Mendelson's book he says that HIB vax is one of the culprits of SIDs. I hate fear mongering and I hate articles like this one.

Sorry just saw the prev link on the topic

[~Ryleigh's Mommy~]

isn't saying that hib vaccine causing sids also fearmongering? especially considering sids was around long before the hib vax...

[anewmama]

I am interested in a comment Mamakay made on another thread about the risks for a child to get HiB later on. I needed to go back and read it but the gist, if I got it right, is that due to less HiB circulating, kids used to get colonized with it around 6 months. But because of the vaccine, this isn't happening. So the colonization still needs to happen and if it does, even a 3 year old could become very ill as the risks at that age are actually now more like a 6 month old due to delays in colonization. She DID say it better than me!

This really interested me, particularly in the context of the thread where a mama's 3 year old was hospitalized with HiB.

If the vax is delaying colonization, this sounds like another unintended consequence of the vaccine where older children are quite susceptible, as if they were 6 months.

Hope Mamakay comes along and corrects my interpretation if I am wrong. I had some questions for her but can't remember what thread she posted that in.

[Lollicup]

do you have more information on this? My 16 month old just received her 3rd HiB shot and had to be hospitalized for bacterial meningitis 4 days after the shot.

[Proverbs31]

I thought it was viral meningitis?

[FernG]

There were so many threads about this that it was confusing to follow the story, but Lollicup's daughter had viral meningitis.

Update on culture testing negative for bacteria...
Lollicup's description of the time line of events... Scroll down to see it.

Lollicup had a scary and exhausting week, so I think her post above in this thread is probably a typo. Or she could mean that her daughter was hospitalized for suspected bacterial meningitis until the cutlers came back negative for bacteria.

[Marnica]

Originally Posted by Lollicup

do you have more information on this? My 16 month old just received her 3rd HiB shot and had to be hospitalized for bacterial meningitis 4 days after the shot.

You said it was viral meningitis in your posts about this. Im confused now

[Delicateflower]

Originally Posted by lovemybubus

I was born in the 70's and as far as I know none of us were vaccinated for HIB (this is one of the many reasons I have chosen not to vax my kids for this).

The HiB vaccine wasn't available in the 70's. That's why 1000 children a year died of HiB then, and virtually none do now.

[kiara7]

Originally Posted by Delicateflower

The HiB vaccine wasn't available in the 70's. That's why 1000 children a year died of HiB then, and virtually none do now.

How many cases and deaths from bacterial meningitis caused by hia, hic, hid, hif, etc. are there now?

[anewmama]

http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm5750md.htm of Hib, other types and unknown.

Table 1 has yearly cases... not sure where to find yearly death reports.

[kiara7]

Thanks anewmama!

So, 2008.

Hib - 26
Nonserotype B - 159
Unknown serotype - 174

[Mom2Mason]

Originally Posted by kiara7

Thanks anewmama!

So, 2008.

Hib - 26
Nonserotype B - 159
Unknown serotype - 174

Just out of curiosity, why are there so many unknown serotype cases? It would seem to me that anytime someone presents with Hi disease, they would type it. Is it impossible to determine type in some cases?

[Deborah]

The big question is the reporting requirement. Unless all bacterial meningitis cases are REQUIRED to be reported the numbers are funky.

Hib was not reportable until after the vaccine was added to the schedule, so all of the pre-vaccine rates are estimates. There is another thread discussing the basis for the estimates, I'll find it and bump it up.

[kiara7]

Originally Posted by Mom2Mason

Just out of curiosity, why are there so many unknown serotype cases? It would seem to me that anytime someone presents with Hi disease, they would type it. Is it impossible to determine type in some cases?

I don't think they've named them all yet, lol.

[mamakay]

Originally Posted by Delicateflower

The HiB vaccine wasn't available in the 70's. That's why 1000 children a year died of HiB then, and virtually none do now.

So why do we have almost as many cases of invasive h influenzae now as we did when the vaccine was introduced?

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/pin...ses&deaths.pdf

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17516405

[mamakay]

Originally Posted by lovemybubus

Here is the link...

http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/...hib-kids_N.htm

That is marketing, not news.

[Lollicup]

Originally Posted by Marnica

You said it was viral meningitis in your posts about this. Im confused now

Sorry! I meant VIRAL meningitis.

[Lollicup]

Originally Posted by anewmama

This really interested me, particularly in the context of the thread where a mama's 3 year old was hospitalized with HiB.

If the vax is delaying colonization, this sounds like another unintended consequence of the vaccine where older children are quite susceptible, as if they were 6 months.

Hope Mamakay comes along and corrects my interpretation if I am wrong. I had some questions for her but can't remember what thread she posted that in.

This is the information I needed. My DD was 16 months old when she got the HiB shot alone. Perhaps younger children tolerate HiB better than older children do.

[anewmama]

Lollicup, it's actually the reverse. Younger children do not tolerate Hib better. When my daughter got the shot, she was 23 months and actually more or less out of the typical range for HiB disease. However, due to some questions and the fact that my daughter is in daycare, I decided to do this one vax for now. She has been 100% breastfed and still is. But less so lately and this if part of why I decided to do this vax, in addition to some questions about their ability to form antibodies and less Hib circulating. But in general, no, younger kids are not able to tolerate it more. They can acquire some immunity from their mothers provided the mom's have it but this starts to wane as I understand it after about 2-3 months. So until they can form antibodies at around 2-3, they are quite vulnerable. Although their being breastfed can help protect them past the 2-3 month period... perhaps 'holding' them until they are 2-3 and can start building their own immunity (which is it's own complicated subject...).

[mamakay]

Originally Posted by anewmama

I am interested in a comment Mamakay made on another thread about the risks for a child to get HiB later on. I needed to go back and read it but the gist, if I got it right, is that due to less HiB circulating, kids used to get colonized with it around 6 months. But because of the vaccine, this isn't happening. So the colonization still needs to happen and if it does, even a 3 year old could become very ill as the risks at that age are actually now more like a 6 month old due to delays in colonization. She DID say it better than me!

This really interested me, particularly in the context of the thread where a mama's 3 year old was hospitalized with HiB.

If the vax is delaying colonization, this sounds like another unintended consequence of the vaccine where older children are quite susceptible, as if they were 6 months.

Hope Mamakay comes along and corrects my interpretation if I am wrong. I had some questions for her but can't remember what thread she posted that in.

That's exactly what I'm thinking, and I think you explained it better than I did.