Should Lactivists/LLL Leaders be discreet to promote breastfeeding? - Page 2

[Bluegoat]

Originally Posted by hucklebearie

To be honest, I cannot think of a bigger, more established example of lactivism than LLL. Activism does not have to be radical or political, rather an intentional action to bring about change. It is my belief that LLL strives to change our society's misconceptions of breastfeeding by providing information/support to pregnant, nursing women. Even if only on a case by case basis, is this not still considered activism? Moreover, can there be a better example of lactacist than a LLL leader who donates their time tirelessly in the support, encouragement, and education of a nursing mother?

Our individual actions may not be exactly alike, but lactavists we all are.

Well, it depends on what you mean by lactivist, I suppose. But perhaps what the poster meant was that their mission, as they have defined it, it to help women, on an individual basis, begin and continue to BF; it has a strong one on one/counseling mission.

Now, this is totally compatible with raising general awareness on BF issues, pushing for rights, and so on, at the larger level, which is what people seem to mean when they say lactivist.

I am trying to think here of a good comparison because I have to go get breakfast - the best I can come up with is something like a women's shelter. Clearly activism against violence in the family is important, changing attitudes and laws, raising awareness. But many women's shelters are very discrete, even secret, for the protection and comfort of the clients.

Sometimes functions need to be split up to actually provide services for people. Which may have been exactly what you were getting at?

As a side note, I think when they say discreet, it should be meant as in a way the client base will be comfortable with. It would be different if you were living in say, Berkely California or in the middle of an Amish community (if they even go to Lll?)

[Phoebe]

I guess it depends on what you mean by descreet. Personally, I don't find it necessary to whip my entire boob out and hike my shirt up to my chin to nurse my baby. That to me would not be discreet, however acceptable to ME. I think nursing mothers should do their best to show as little as possible while NIP. If you can't manage and your boob it out, fine with me. It is important to nurse within the context of our society. We do not live in a tribal society where women are topless all the time. Just how it is. Not accepted here.

That being said I NEVER use a blanket or any other type of cover. I do the best I can to keep things under control but thats it. I feel that the more people see nursing mothers and babies being natural in their environment the more accepted it will be.

I feel like it does a disservice to all women and babies to cover up.

[elanorh]

I think LLL Leaders, Peer Counselors at WIC, and other "known" lactivists do sometimes have a really thin line to walk.

I have heard comments from people who felt uncomfortable with the less-than-discreet nursing they saw at a breastfeeding support meeting, or with an 'older' baby being nursed at a breastfeeding support meeting.

I do not agree with those comments. But I think that at the same time, I would be conscious of them as a leader/educator/peer counselor or whatever. I think I would make comments about the importance of people nursing how, where, and for the duration which they are most comfortable with, so that people don't think I'm expecting them to nurse without a cover if they don't want to; so they know that the important thing is to breastfeed their 3 month old, and not worry about whether they feel comfortable with a 2 1/2 year old nursing (cross that bridge later).

I think it's a difficult job for them to do -- to advocate for breastfeeding, normalize it and help people become comfortable and adept at it. Especially when society is stacked against them, with its obsession over sexualizing breasts. I mean, if people can't nurse however they and their nurslings are most comfortable at a SUPPORT meeting, where CAN they???

I've actually got another thread here - not an LLL Leader or Peer Counselor (neither exists in my community) but as a 'long term nursing lactivist' about discretion while nursing and whether it actually hurts our cause. I've always believed that mothers should feel comfortable NIP however they are most comfortable, whether that's in a nursing cape or nursing top or topless for that matter. But how I'm comfortable, especially after all these years of experience, ends up looking quite 'discreet' to others around me --- to the extent that I worry that not only does it set unrealistic standards for novice nursers who might see me nursing -- but it also might reinforce the "she could be more discreet" argument used against other mothers who NIP.

[menomena]

I want to reiterate what mamajake said: I've never been told to "be discreet" at a LLL function. And I've been active in the organization for almost 4yrs. I don't know that LLL actively promotes "discreet nursing". It certainly was never mentioned during the accreditation process.

I think it's very important to meet moms where they're at (now THAT'S current League philosophy!). The flip side is that I need to be myself in doing so. If I'm wanting to cover and be discreet, that's my thing, and as long as I don't push it on anyone else, then we're cool. Same thing about just pulling my collar down and nursing "out the top". And, truth be told, depending on the situation, and actually, depending on my wardrobe choice that day, I find myself nursing in different levels of "discreet" and different levels of "out there".

Just like with so many things in life, this is not an all or nothing. IMO, of course.

[AngeliqueW]

Yes and No.
Leaders can model discreet (whatever that means) breast feeding as a "how to" if that's asked for.
They can also model whatever works for them to show that there's no "right way."
At my LLL group I find all of the other moms are discreet out of modesty and aren't waving their breasts around like topless dancers or stripping nude.
This is one of those false debates. Even if you have your breast up over your shirt, the baby's mouth covers your nipple and their head covers most of your breast. I see more breast on the red carpet at the Oscars than at a LLL meeting full of nursing moms.

[One_Girl]

I would never ever have breastfed my daughter if I thought that I would have to hang everything out and be the object of derision and scorn by the world in order to do so. Being able to see other mothers who could breastfeed without a blanket but also without flashing the world with their body helped me to see breastfeeding as something I could be comfortable doing.
I think that everyone should be able to breastfeed however they feel comfortable and happy doing it. I don't think that anyone should have a right to tell people how to nurse in public.
But if you want to promote something, like LLL, then you should work to promote it successfully by breastfeeding in a way that doesn't involve a lot of skin and breast showing for a prolonged period of time. When you promote something you generally try to do it in a way that won't put people off of what you are trying to promote so it is important to be thoughtful and think critically about how people are going to view what you are doing and how that will influence them. If you aren't promoting something then nobody should be telling you how to do it. In the case of LLL it sounds like they were very aware that mothers would be more likely to want to nurse if they saw it as a discreet thing that they to could do.

I wanted to add that normally I wouldn't even think about this issue this way. When I see a mother nursing I don't think about it in terms of someone doing breastfeeding a disservice or a favor by nursing a certain way. I think it is great they are nursing at all. But on a lactivism site I think it is important to put out there that there are other things to consider when you are trying to represent and promote something.

[the_lissa]

I wqould never have breastfed if I only saw people doing it "discreetly>" Not everyone can manage it, and it is nice to have some solidarity.

[leerypolyp]

Originally Posted by One_Girl

But if you want to promote something, like LLL, then you should work to promote it successfully by breastfeeding in a way that doesn't involve a lot of skin and breast showing for a prolonged period of time. ... In the case of LLL it sounds like they were very aware that mothers would be more likely to want to nurse if they saw it as a discreet thing that they to could do.

I disagree. Again, that first sentence assumes that all mothers have the same kind of comfort level/preference for nursing.

The second sentence, I wonder if that's a misreading of what was happening. Not that I was there or anything. But I imagine it had more to do with representing for random men and women like managers, staff at the facility, etc. that breastfeeding wasn't something that would, say, make other customers uncomfortable. I really doubt the "prohibition" was aimed at making potential nursing mothers feel more comfortable -- were there even any "on-the-fence" women at the LLLI conference? Wouldn't it be mostly leaders and bfing professionals?

So I think the argument over whether it's best for a bfing org to reach more mothers with a certain kind of nursing isn't actually illustrated best by this example. My guess is that they were dealing with people who were all, "OMG, there are gonna be BOOBS EVERYWHERE with these crazy women!" and were trying to set an example of unobtrusive lactivism. Which is a very different and specific instance in which it might actually be useful to be "discreet" en masse.

[Collinsky]

Originally Posted by annettemarie

I don't think anyone should tell anyone else how they have to nurse.

Yes. I think that women should nurse as discreetly or as openly as is comfortable for them. This way women get to see the whole spectrum of possibilities. That it is possible to nurse without revealing your breasts, and also that it's acceptable if your breasts are revealed. Both are good things, IMO.

Originally Posted by hucklebearie

Is this something LLL feels as a rule?

No. Although I do seem to recall at one area conference that they asked attendees to be discreet... it was a couple years ago so I'm not sure I'm remembering correctly. I thought it was odd. I think the idea was to be discreet when out and about in the hotel where the conference was held, so as not to offend others and to leave a good impression of nursing mothers. Not in sessions. Other conferences didn't have that request.

[njeb]

Originally Posted by leerypolyp

I disagree. Again, that first sentence assumes that all mothers have the same kind of comfort level/preference for nursing.

The second sentence, I wonder if that's a misreading of what was happening. Not that I was there or anything. But I imagine it had more to do with representing for random men and women like managers, staff at the facility, etc. that breastfeeding wasn't something that would, say, make other customers uncomfortable. I really doubt the "prohibition" was aimed at making potential nursing mothers feel more comfortable -- were there even any "on-the-fence" women at the LLLI conference? Wouldn't it be mostly leaders and bfing professionals?

So I think the argument over whether it's best for a bfing org to reach more mothers with a certain kind of nursing isn't actually illustrated best by this example. My guess is that they were dealing with people who were all, "OMG, there are gonna be BOOBS EVERYWHERE with these crazy women!" and were trying to set an example of unobtrusive lactivism. Which is a very different and specific instance in which it might actually be useful to be "discreet" en masse.

Absolutely.
When I was attending the 1987 LLLI conference in Chicago, we were told to be discreet when outside of the conference area, in order to give the staff a good impression of nursing mothers. But within it, there was no such prohibition. Which was a good thing, because I was nursing my 3 month old ds in the football hold exclusively, due to my large breasts. Of course, I never went outside the conference area except for going to and from my room.

[KnitLady]

I really think there is room for both discreet and less discreet lactavists and LLL leaders.

I found reassurance from both types of nursing moms. At first it was great to see how discreet NIP could be. Then when I found that I really much preferred the over the top of the shirt nursing worked best for me, it was great to know that was ok too.

Most of all, I think LLL leaders and lactavists need to show confidence and that they are comfortable with NIP, no matter how much skin they show while nursing.