The Great Depression Part 2? - Page 5

[smeisnotapirate]

Originally Posted by beanma

sme, that sounds pretty awful in your area, so sorry. I don't think it's like that everywhere, though. And actually from what I can read some areas of PA have unemployment rates of less than 5%, but some areas are up around 10%. It seems to vary pretty widely across your state and across the country.

It is pretty bad, and the reports aren't very accurate. This time last year, we were serving about 300 meals a day at the soup kitchen and housing about that many (most of the people with housing took food bags home). At this point, we have to close the door at 900 meals and hand out sandwiches because we just can't take the capacity, and we're closing the shelter doors at about 450 (no space) - and yet, WGAL (local news station) still reports that Lancaster's homeless population is up by only half.

We have more and more homeless families and WORKING homeless, and the reports are skewed. So - the funding's not coming (not that anyone really can afford funding, right?) and things continue to spiral downward.

I'm trying not to be melodramatic, but I think a lot of people are looking at the stats and going "well, 5% isn't too bad," not understanding that that's the unemployment rate - there are hundreds of working homeless in your area.

[Juvysen]

Originally Posted by smeisnotapirate

It is pretty bad, and the reports aren't very accurate. This time last year, we were serving about 300 meals a day at the soup kitchen and housing about that many (most of the people with housing took food bags home). At this point, we have to close the door at 900 meals and hand out sandwiches because we just can't take the capacity, and we're closing the shelter doors at about 450 (no space) - and yet, WGAL (local news station) still reports that Lancaster's homeless population is up by only half.

We have more and more homeless families and WORKING homeless, and the reports are skewed. So - the funding's not coming (not that anyone really can afford funding, right?) and things continue to spiral downward.

I'm trying not to be melodramatic, but I think a lot of people are looking at the stats and going "well, 5% isn't too bad," not understanding that that's the unemployment rate - there are hundreds of working homeless in your area.

You're right. Under-employed, is that called? I know there's lots of people working one or two or three jobs and still not making ends meet, too...

[Violet2]

I didn't see this mentioned here, but the IMF thinks we're already in a Depression.

IMF Chief Says Nations in Depression

V

[kmeyrick]

I think we're in a depression. May not equate to the Great Depression, but we're in one.

[Azuralea]

I think we're in a depression and will be for several more years. As far as I can see, all the signs of a major depression are in place.

The unemployment stats are not accurate. They significantly underreport the problems.

[Tradd]

Originally Posted by smeisnotapirate

We're nearing a 10% unemployment rate in our synagogue. We are (demographically, as a synagogue) upper middle class workers - lots of stereotypical Jewish jobs () - doctors, lawyers, accountants. The congregation is struggling not to go into the red. We're seriously cutting back, as a group. Membership (which = dues) is stagnant, but attendance to services is up. We have (for the first time in over 100 years) FOUR members who are currently homeless. Right now, they're house-jumping in the congregation and doing odd jobs until someone can rent them a room (might be us if we buy the farm we're looking at .

I'm worried about those in my parish (Orthodox Christian), as well. We're a mix of professionals and upper-level managers, more "middle" middle class folks, as well as some blue collar folks and small business owners. A number work for a well-known local tech company, which always seems to be announcing layoffs, for the past few years. We're very lean on paid staff - only our priest, who is full-time - but we've got a $500K mortgage from the very-badly needed new church that was built four years ago. We have to refinance it this year (I guess commercial loans are reupped every five years or so). I'm delighted to see that we're great with supporting the local food pantry - the collection barrel is always overflowing with more groceries on the floor around it.

We're being very frugal - heat very low, CFLs wherever possible. I'm bringing paper from work (printed very little on one side) for use in the Sunday school - every little bit helps. I'm wondering how the giving has been since the beginning of the year. At our annual meeting in late January, we were given the numbers through the end of the year.

[Amys1st]

Originally Posted by Tradd

Piggle, would you please edit the post where you quoted me. It looks like Amy1st said the part you quoted, but it was really me.

Thanks!

Thanks, I was wondering when I called someone stupid here. I know I didnt call this pp stupid. I know I have said outloud at some posts online Stupid! But I have never written it at MDC or said it about this member LOL

[Amys1st]

Originally Posted by lolar2

My great-grandfather was a bootlegger in Chicago during Prohibition. He was killed by the mafia for not paying protection money. Yep. It was very violent back then, too.

My Grandfather was one as well but lived to be 96. I guess he paid up or was w the mafia since my last name is very sicilian... But he would agree life was a lot more violent back then.

[lolar2]

My great-grandfather was Ukrainian Jewish. Not so much Sicilian!

[Amys1st]

Our parish started a "our generations gift" about 18 mos ago. Basically its a 2M fundraising to redo several things in the church that needed to be done since its been about 40 years. We were doing great until the last 6 mos. Even the Xmas collection was way down. Several churches and parishes need that and the Easter collection to run their annual budgets. And they also had a dismaying collection because people just do not have the funds for it.


As far as depression and people surviving. There really wasnt a media link to people before- No tvs etc so being fabulous wasnt in front of their faces all the time until several decades later, so most people said- hey we have to survive and lets do it.
Post WWII generations watched June Cleaver dust in her high heels and updo. More and more convenient things were introduced and if you didnt jump on the bandwagon, you were not as successful or fabulous. That was what was sold to us. It is still the way today. Buy this 1K purse and your life will be awesome. Smoke this cigarette and you will be fab, die of lung cancer yes but fabulous and sexy. Drink this expensive cocktail and wear this dress and you are it. You may have a headache tomorrow or get in other trouble, but you will be fabulous. Advertising and Marketing is why so many people are in trouble. Keeping up with the Jones even though the Jones since moved away decades ago. We as a society have our culture convinced we are nothing without all these things.

[krankedyann]

Originally Posted by newbymom05

Seriously???? Because we've had lower taxes for the last 8 years, you know.

You're making a faulty logic jump here. Low taxes does not equal depression prevention. There's the mistake. This depression started, just like the Great Depression did, due to a bubble bursting. Bubble bursts don't have anything to do with taxes. In both cases, it was a real estate bubble. That bubble bursting led to another bubble burst, and so on.

Once you're in a depression, the way out is to allow people to have more of their own money to stimulate the economy by spending- hence the lowering of taxes. People who have more money spend more, because their discretionary income is higher.

[krankedyann]

Originally Posted by Amys1st

Advertising and Marketing is why so many people are in trouble. Keeping up with the Jones even though the Jones since moved away decades ago. We as a society have our culture convinced we are nothing without all these things.

I think that's part of the problem- personal responsibility in finances are definitely down in part because advertising works. I also think people have become too distracted by bread and circuses and are much less likely to be willing to work hard than they used to be. And the entitlement mentality appears to be more pervasive than it once was. I no longer think we have a country full of people willing to rise up to greatness to work hard and repair a problem.

And I hope I'm wrong.

[lolar2]

Originally Posted by krankedyann

I no longer think we have a country full of people willing to rise up to greatness to work hard and repair a problem.

Really? People are not willing to work hard? The job-seeking centers are overflowing. People would love the opportunity to work hard, but there aren't jobs to be had.

[Teenytoona]

I think generically, many people expect to do less work. People always tell me they don't know how I can CD and WOHM FT. It's not like I"m handwashing them, I throw them in the washer, reset the machine a few times, then hang to dry or pop them in the dryer. There are alot of people who've gotten used to getting home from work and nuking a tv dinner while watching a few hours or tv or playing video games.When krankedyann said people are much less willing to work hard, I envisioned not just job work, but overall work. Stuff around the house as well as the 9-5.

[krankedyann]

Originally Posted by lolar2

Really? People are not willing to work hard? The job-seeking centers are overflowing. People would love the opportunity to work hard, but there aren't jobs to be had.

Hard work in the physical sense, no. Keeping a 9-5 at a desk is not hard work. Farming, back-breaking labor and the like are hard work.

Keeping a home garden and keeping livestock is hard work. Most people think it's 'too much work.' How many times have I been told by some seeks my advice on ways to save money, has told me it's "too much work" to cook from scratch, grow a garden or hang clothes out on a line to dry? Wayyyyy too many for me to think we're not headed for trouble.

[smeisnotapirate]

Originally Posted by Teenytoona

There are alot of people who've gotten used to getting home from work and nuking a tv dinner while watching a few hours or tv or playing video games.When krankedyann said people are much less willing to work hard, I envisioned not just job work, but overall work. Stuff around the house as well as the 9-5.

That's what I envision too. I have a friend who says she'd DIE without Sbux. I bought her a french press for Christmas and all the supplies she'd need - and she hasn't taken it out of the box yet. Too much work.

I think it's THAT kind of work she's talking about, too.

[lolar2]

I don't know, that really sounds to me more like a function of people thinking CDs are harder to deal with than they actually are.

Just because the option to work less exists for some people, and some people choose to take that option, doesn't mean that they are not willing to work hard if necessary. Does that make any sense? I mean, to use my family as an example, sometimes we order pizza when we can afford it. That doesn't mean I'm unwilling to make pizza in some cosmic sense. If we can't afford to order and we want pizza, I make it.

[smeisnotapirate]

Originally Posted by lolar2

I don't know, that really sounds to me more like a function of people thinking CDs are harder to deal with than they actually are.

Just because the option to work less exists for some people, and some people choose to take that option, doesn't mean that they are not willing to work hard if necessary. Does that make any sense? I mean, to use my family as an example, sometimes we order pizza when we can afford it. That doesn't mean I'm unwilling to make pizza in some cosmic sense. If we can't afford to order and we want pizza, I make it.

Yes, but not everyone is as skilled and common sense as you.

It takes very little skill to make a pizza, right? There are a lot of people who wouldn't know where to start if they had to, and disagree with the idea that they should learn to - and that's the issue.

[Teenytoona]

Originally Posted by lolar2

I don't know, that really sounds to me more like a function of people thinking CDs are harder to deal with than they actually are.

Just because the option to work less exists for some people, and some people choose to take that option, doesn't mean that they are not willing to work hard if necessary. Does that make any sense? I mean, to use my family as an example, sometimes we order pizza when we can afford it. That doesn't mean I'm unwilling to make pizza in some cosmic sense. If we can't afford to order and we want pizza, I make it.

CDing was just one of my examples, I could say that about alot of things. But I agree with smeisnotapirate and krankedyann, people don't want to have to do physical things and they don't expect to have to do anything "extra." Exactly what that means is different to other people.

[lolar2]

Originally Posted by krankedyann

Hard work in the physical sense, no. Keeping a 9-5 at a desk is not hard work. Farming, back-breaking labor and the like are hard work.

???? OK we live in completely different worlds. Every day I drive past a gas station where there are always at least 10 men standing around wanting to do day labor. Depending on my work schedule, I sometimes go by the same gas station later in the day and see that maybe 2 of the 10 men (give or take) found work; the others are out of luck. And they aren't officially supposed to be there; there is another entire day labor center, established by the city, in another location. The men I see are overflow.

This isn't just anecdotal. Construction of new houses hit a low in January, I read. That means layoffs for construction workers whose line of work is, in fact, hard physical labor.

Likewise in the town where DH grew up, people fight and scramble for back-breaking factory and construction jobs that are few and far between.

Numbers-wise, there seem to be more people who want to do hard back-breaking labor, than there is back-breaking labor to go around.