I'm so close to signing my son up for school.

[burke-a-bee]

I am so frustrated with my 9yo. Any work is met with resistance. An example....We've started working on division and he doesn't want to show his work. So he ends up making tons of mistakes and gets so tired of having to correct them. I try to explain that if he writes it out then there it is less likely he will make a mistake. He sees it as me challenging him and assigning "boring" work.
I really think if I sign him up he will be surprised at how much actual work is in traditional school. Especially busy work. Plus he has a hard time with homework. ( He was in school last year and had a hard time finishing work in school and after school. His teacher was very understanding.)
Then on the other hand it would be a huge weight off my shoulders. He has been very negative towards me since we started homeschooling and I've felt pretty crappy. I've researched so much for a curric. that he would like and spent many hours at the educational store trying to find the right materials. Everything is so "boring" and he growls at me when I bring up what we are going to work on today.
Any advice?

[junipermuse]

Well I'm not really a homeschooler yet, but I like hanging out on this board because I'm planning for the future. However the one thing that came to my mind is that maybe the homeschooling you and ds are doing still feels too much like "school." It sounds like he didn't have the best experience there, so maybe he needs some more time to "deschool" before he is ready to do more formal schooling at home. Also is there a possibility that he has some learning differences or difficulties with fine motor control that might the work hard for him, even when he understands the concepts. It can be incredibly difficult for a child to enjoy school work if one part is too challenging (the physical act of writing), while the other part isn't challenging enough (the conceptual part of the math). While it's something I would definitely look into, in the meantime maybe you could try using a computer game that teaches math, that way he wouldn't have to do so much writing. Or maybe ask him to do fewer problems with all the writing. Only make him do 3 problems that show all the work, if he gets them right he's done. Good luck.

[Whistler]

This was the very thing I had been dreading about homeschooling. The resistance, the dragging feet, the "boring" work, the not liking listening to Mom as a teacher. I had almost talked myself out of it entirely.

Then I learned more about unschooling and began to imagine what our family would look like if we followed the interests of my children instead of trying to make our day look like a mini version of school only at home. I began to experiement with gathering together playful resources like educational computer games, imaginative toys and math manipulatives that double as fun, stimulating playthings. I began letting my daughter guide me on what she would like to learn and to think of her interests as important, along with my desire for her to learn the traditional subjects like math and reading.

Suddenly our days are filled with learning. She learns SO fast when she has a reason to pursue a subject, if she is interested and it is her idea. And the success feeds itself. As she has a good experience in one area she is much more willing to attempt another subject with the same expectation of pleasure and success.

I am not saying unschooling is right for everyone. It may not be right for you and if traditional school is what would work better, then go for it! But it may be food for thought that it might work to scrap the carefully planned curriculum that is so "boring" to your son and begin to follow his interests. If he enjoys making things, he might be inspired to learn long division in order to create a proportionate project out of wood, using his hands and hammer and nails. It helps a lot to think about ways division is used in the "real" world and the REASON it's important to do it accurately. Then he can come to you for guidance on how to accompish that instead of you having to force him to practice it when he doesn't want to.

Still, I am new to all of this and my daughter is only 4 years old, so you can feel free to take my advice with a grain of salt.

[aris99]

I looked at your little ones (they are beautiful!)in your siggy and I was wondering....do your other kids go to school? If they are at home are they a distraction? I homeschool my eldest, 7. Her younger brother and sister can be a total distraction at times and I find it hard to keep her attention. So I have learned to "seize the moment". We stick to a schedule but I am flexible around the distraction schedule of the younger members of our household

[4Blessings]

I just don't believe in giving up on my child by dumping him off at the public school so they can figure it out.

I agree with PP about trying unschooling or another approach. Sure it's a lot of working figuring out what is "right" for our children but they are totally worth it.
If public school is the right fit than go for it but don't throw him back to the wolves just because you haven't found the best way for him to learn at home.

s

[crazycandigirl]

DD1 is 9 and has been homeschooled since she was 6 (after 1.5 years in public school). We went through this resistance this last fall. Every time I asked her to do something it was a huge fight and she would draw it out as long as possible to avoid doing it, yell at me and be cross at the world. If I corrected her mistakes on a problem she would argue with me and get really upset at how "mean" I was being. It was horrid.

Then we had a really good talk. I made us tea and sat down with her. I explained that I was not ok with how things were going. I went over our reasons for homeschooling and reminded her that torturing her with work was not one of them. We homeschool because I love her, love to spend time with her and believe in her ability to have control over her education goals and ability to be self motivated. I do not homeschool her to be yelled and and fought and whined at. We compared the amount of time that she spends on work and that of traditional school. We talked about the importance of learning.

Then I explained that the whining and fighting and yelling was not ok anymore. I choose to spend time with her for homeschooling and she is not to waste my time with those kind of behaviors. I have other things (as does she) that we could be doing with that wasted time. It was like a lightbulb went off. Things got much better right away. Much less fighting and arguing about work.

Two other things helped us out a lot as well. Creating a schedule on the wall was one of them. 1 hour in the morning for worksheet work (math and such), 1 hour of active learning/art in the afternoon, free reading for an hour before bed (she reads way more than that though). Once she saw how much of her time was not used for "boring work" she was more than happy to sit with me during those times. We also use a timer to make sure we stick to the time frames. It helps to remind her that while she is "on the clock" she needs to give 100%. It makes it sooooo much easier when she sees that the time does not last forever.

We still have moments where she struggles not to fight the idea of doing any work. I usually just remind her not to waste my time or hers and she settles down quickly.

I hope that things get better for you guys!

[burke-a-bee]

The thing is that he wants to go back to school next year. I feel some pressure to keep him up to speed. I thought he would love homeschooling but he says he doesn't. I think he really misses having friends.
I also homeschool my two other boys plus my toddler. Yes they can be total distraction to each other. It can be quite maddening.
I am not giving up on him but it takes two. If he isn't willing to participate then what can I do.
If we were going to homeschool from here on out (I've considered it) then I would be more relaxed about homeschooling and consider unschooling. He just insist that he is going to school next year.
Crazycandigirl, what you described is exactly what we are going through!
Junipermuse, I will try the computer game idea.
Thanks to all who commented.

[Lillian J]

I'd like to suggest not even thinking of unschooling as an ideology but just as a source of some ideas that can help you out. You don't need to pick any style or method and stick within its walls, but you can find a lot of help and inspiration from lots of different sources.

Okay, I'm going to play the devil's advocate here, so to speak - because it's often not so easy for a 9 yr. old boy to articulate what might be on his mind. The fact that you say "He has been very negative towards me since we started homeschooling..." would indicate to me that you've probably done what many do when they start homeschooling - beginning to behave in a traditional teacherly role that's different from the one they'd had as a mom. And that's really not necessary. You mentioned the word "work" as the source of conflict. And yet, "work" isn't something that's always necessary for learning at all - not outside of a traditional school classroom at least. In fact, there are much better ways to learn. And I really think children fully realize that. They're doing a whole lot more thinking and observing than parents often realize . They're observing their parents and all that's going on, and have opinions about what they see and have to deal with.

It seems as if all the decisions have been made for him, and he's just being told to go along with it. But he's a thinking person who knows something about the way he learns, so he's having reactions to the assignments. What if the whole program you've put together were to be shelved while you and he readjust your relationship so that he feels more respected and feels that he has some space and ability to take part in decisions about how and what he learns, and when?

A boy his age is often already dealing with the basic natural pulling away from his mom's apron strings and beginning to think of himself as a budding man, small as the bud may be at the time . The more space and respect he's given to have some control over the homeschooling part of his life, the more he's likely to calm down about your relationship.

There are lots of wonderful ways to learn basics - it sounds as if the math program he's in may not be what's working for him, and it can be very frustrating for a person to have to deal with something like that on a daily basis with someone who has the authority to make him do it anyway. The issue of him not wanting to show his work is actually a very common head-butting scenario I've heard of between mothers and sons. It may have to do with something as simple as his having to do too much paper drilling. Or maybe he's felt an uncomfortable personal experience with his work being checked. I took my son to a math tutoring service around that age, because his dad wanted him tested, and the owner of the business was thrilled with his complete lack of distaste for math - she said she spends most of her time trying to undo the damage that's been done by all the repetitive paper and pencil drilling kids have been made to do in school.

If you were to take a break and start to allow him to be a bigger part of choosing materials and activities, you might find a very different attitude forming. Even though you clearly chose things you felt he would like, it seems as if they're being assigned to him as if he's attending school at home, and maybe there's something the two of you can reach a better understanding of and agreement about together. He has lots and lots of time before he needs to be getting set up for higher math or college entrance expectations - right now there's plenty of time for him to just experience math in fun ways through games and activities that can actually make it more concrete for him in the long run. He'd probably enjoy some things from The I Hate Mathematics Book - because it promotes mathematical thinking rather than doing the written math problems in a proper way - and/or Math for Kids and Other People Too. Here's a whole page of links to articles and websites that have some good ideas: Go Figure!

A great book for you might be I Learn Better By Teaching Myself. It's not an "unschooling" book - it's about the way children learn. And it has lots of helpful insights and suggestions.

And as Jennifer suggested, there may even be an undiagnosed problem with some sort of learning skill or coordination. You might want to take a look at this article I did on my family's experience with Vision Skills - it links also to one on Dyslexia - because oftentimes there are minor struggles a child might be having that are mistaken for laziness or other things. The fact that he was having a hard time in school might be an indicator that something was missed - it can be very subtle to detect.

If you put him into school, they'll make him "do the work," but that doesn't mean they're facilitating a better education or helping him become a capable, confident, and enthusiastic self-motivated lifelong learner. - Lillian

[Lillian J]

Originally Posted by burke-a-bee

The thing is that he wants to go back to school next year. I feel some pressure to keep him up to speed. I thought he would love homeschooling but he says he doesn't. I think he really misses having friends. I also homeschool my two other boys plus my toddler. Yes they can be total distraction to each other. It can be quite maddening.

Ah! I didn't realize he didn't have friends. That's terribly important. If he's willing to go back to school just for that, I totally sympathize with him. Have you gone out of your way to make connections? There are some helpful ideas in this thread: Can't find a local group

And if the time you can make available for him were to be devoted to having close, fun, time together (like you had before the others came along) instead of to the schoolwork struggle, I think that would be a great investment. And the toddler won't be a toddler for long - there's hope for a calmer scene before long. Lillian

[burke-a-bee]

Oh yeah I forgot to mention that we are currently living in a 31 foot RV traveling across the country. We've been on the road since June. I think he really misses the stability of school.

[Lillian J]

Originally Posted by burke-a-bee

Oh yeah I forgot to mention that we are currently living in a 31 foot RV traveling across the country. We've been on the road since June. I think he really misses the stability of school.

Holy Moley!

Well, in that case, I'm going to just suggest that you let him just be, hanging out with you and the rest of the family and taking in the sights and experiences of the road, playing games, listening to stories read aloud, and making great, cozy memories that will last forever. Lillian

[burke-a-bee]

I also should mention that he fights me on a lot of things. For example "Please put your shoes away." can get a snarl and "Stop bossing me around!!!!!!
Also, he is a very curious person. He has read several textbooks without even a nudge. He reads them for fun and just because they happen to be around. So I know he has the desire to seek out new things to learn.
I've always thought unschooling would be perfect for him but now with the idea of going back to school stuck in his head I feel I'm in the middle.

[Ruthla]

OK, so he wants to go back to school but that's not a possibility right now because of all the travel that the whole family is in the middle of? And he's used to living in a larger home with more personal space?

My advice to you is to simply let it go. Leave textbooks available for him to read for pleasure. Locate some good online (or DVD) math games for him to play. Leave the math textbook around for him to read! I would completely stop any formal "school time" with him and focus on enjoying time with him, making the cross-country travel an enriching experience for him, etc. He must be learning SO) MUCH this year; things he could never learn at home in a traditional school environment. Does it really matter if he doesn't learn much math this year?

The absolute worst case scenario is that he learns absolutely no math this year, and his teacher will catch him up next year. Maybe he'll need a few "extra help" sessions before or after school. Does that sound so terrible? I don't think so, and I certainly wouldn't want you to ruin your relationship with him to prevent that.

Far more likely is that he'll pick up some math when he wants to do so, on his own terms, at a random time when you're not expecting him to do math. Or he'll quickly and easily catch up to what he missed just by paying attention in class.

[mom2ponygirl]

Okay, I think Lillian has given you a lot of good suggestions, I just have a math specific one. I'd look into some problem solving books, like maybe Zaccaro's Primary Challenge math or Challenge Math. Let him see some purpose to his math in a fun way. It may help him learn to write out his work as the problems become more interesting and involved. He may need you to write for him for a little while so he can separate the process of articulating what he needs to do and the physical writing. I found it helpful for my dd to have her talk out the problem while I wrote, so that she actually saw what I meant by write out your work. Oh, and writing out long division problems is incredibly boring. My math loving daughter hated writing them out. I tried to only have her do a few, as long as she could show she understood. I'd definitely space it out with other math work, and if the long division comes up in the context of other problem solving then all the better!

[happyhippimama]

Originally Posted by burke-a-bee

I am so frustrated with my 9yo. Any work is met with resistance. An example....We've started working on division and he doesn't want to show his work. So he ends up making tons of mistakes and gets so tired of having to correct them. I try to explain that if he writes it out then there it is less likely he will make a mistake. He sees it as me challenging him and assigning "boring" work.
I really think if I sign him up he will be surprised at how much actual work is in traditional school. Especially busy work. Plus he has a hard time with homework. ( He was in school last year and had a hard time finishing work in school and after school. His teacher was very understanding.)
Then on the other hand it would be a huge weight off my shoulders. He has been very negative towards me since we started homeschooling and I've felt pretty crappy. I've researched so much for a curric. that he would like and spent many hours at the educational store trying to find the right materials. Everything is so "boring" and he growls at me when I bring up what we are going to work on today.
Any advice?

OMG!!! This is me with my son!! He just turned 10 the other day and I have been having this struggle since I started HS him. I have been searching an searching for answers. I am so glad to finally find this post here today from you. (not glad you are having to deal with the same crap I am, but ya know) I hope to find answers soon. I can not put him in PS. I just can't! He will not "make it."

[hotmamacita]

Originally Posted by burke-a-bee

I am so frustrated with my 9yo. Any work is met with resistance. An example....We've started working on division and he doesn't want to show his work. So he ends up making tons of mistakes and gets so tired of having to correct them. I try to explain that if he writes it out then there it is less likely he will make a mistake. He sees it as me challenging him and assigning "boring" work.
I really think if I sign him up he will be surprised at how much actual work is in traditional school. Especially busy work. Plus he has a hard time with homework. ( He was in school last year and had a hard time finishing work in school and after school. His teacher was very understanding.)
Then on the other hand it would be a huge weight off my shoulders. He has been very negative towards me since we started homeschooling and I've felt pretty crappy. I've researched so much for a curric. that he would like and spent many hours at the educational store trying to find the right materials. Everything is so "boring" and he growls at me when I bring up what we are going to work on today.
Any advice?

Be kind and trust your instincts.

[sapphire_chan]

Nvm. After finishing reading the thread I call cabin fever and a big : to the suggestion to give him more personal space and chances for movement.

[Lillian J]

Originally Posted by sapphire_chan

I understand that many kids need some time to recover from school before they can start learning again.

And something I've seen again and again is that the summer vacation between a school term and the fall doesn't seem to help at all - an effective decompression/deschooling time needs to begin when school would begin. I don't know exactly why that it, but I've just seen it proven, by trial and error, to be true. - Lillian

[Lillian J]

Originally Posted by sapphire_chan

Nvm. After finishing reading the thread I call cabin fever and a big : to the suggestion to give him more personal space and chances for movement.

Well, you were apparently revising your post when I was responding to it. Interesting point about movement, though - children traveling in an RV might not be getting as much exercise as they normally would, and that could really affect moods. - Lillian

[burke-a-bee]

Thanks for all the advice. I think I'm going to ease up a bit and let him have more time to relax. He's been doing more computer games and I think he really enjoys them. I'm slowing up on repetative work but he is doing a review of what he's been working on. Maybe one or two problems of adding/ subtracting/ multipling/ dividing fraction and a few decimal problems. I'll try introducing things and have little practice. He really gets bogged down in that.
Thanks again. This is a lot harder than I thought.