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Unschooling question  

post #1 of 11
Thread Starter 
I want to start by say that we are not homeschoolers, but it is something that as a family we are thinking about trying. My biggest fear is that my kids will not do the work I ask them to do. I know what it's like when I ask them to clean their room or do their homework and I worry that they will fight me. Then I read about unschooling and it seems like the perfect solution BUT...

I was reading another post about a mom trying to get her ds to learn division and it got me thinking, if we were to unschool with the idea that it's child lead and we only work on things they feel like learning, what happens if one child or all never want to learn division? They have missed out on something really important. Division is just an example, I'm sure there are other subjects that I could use as examples. Does this make any sense?
post #2 of 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by AngieB View Post
I was reading another post about a mom trying to get her ds to learn division and it got me thinking, if we were to unschool with the idea that it's child lead and we only work on things they feel like learning, what happens if one child or all never want to learn division? They have missed out on something really important. Division is just an example, I'm sure there are other subjects that I could use as examples. Does this make any sense?
I'm really on the run - have to get out the door - but I just have to toss in that the "division" in question in that post had to do with assigned problems from a textbook. "Division" isn't about assigned problems in a textbook - it's about a real world activity that can be approached in a number of ways, some of them being commonly learned algorithms that are very helpful. But don't automatically think of certain things as if they're going to be like getting someone to take their cod liver oil. The way you think of things is going to be the way your children pick up their value and desirability - if you find interesting ways to look at and explore math with confidence and curiosity, that will rub off. If you think of it as a series of unpleasant chores that need to be done, that will rub off. Don't worry about it - homeschooling is entirely different from the homework experience. The homework struggle has put off a lot of people from considering homeschooling - but it's like comparing apples and watermelons. You're worrying that they will "fight" you, but if you're unschooling, you won't be giving them something to fight. If you think of exploring and learning together, it's a whole different thing.
Lillian
post #3 of 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by AngieB View Post

I was reading another post about a mom trying to get her ds to learn division and it got me thinking, if we were to unschool with the idea that it's child lead and we only work on things they feel like learning, what happens if one child or all never want to learn division? They have missed out on something really important. Division is just an example, I'm sure there are other subjects that I could use as examples. Does this make any sense?
The unschooling answer is that if it's truly important, then at some point the kid will realize that she's missing this important skill and will go about learning it. Unschoolers figure that just as you and I realize that we need to know a skill, kids do the same thing.

Dar
post #4 of 11
Exactly. Say, worst case scenario, you're 25 years old and have never learned division and realize that there's something you can't do because you need to divide some numbers.

First of all, you're probably recognizing that this is PRETTY unlikely, to make it to 25 years old and to have never encountered a situation where you'd have to divide something.

Once you've realized that, ask yourself this -- you're 25 years old and realize you have to divide something. You've never done it before. Do you think you're not going to be able to learn how to do it now???

This is an absolute WORST CASE scenario, a 25-year-old who never, ever learned to divide and never had it come up as anything necessary in their life before. So now, you open up an elementary math textbook, and you learn how to divide in like 10 minutes.

Voila, problem solved.

One of the biases we all have to overcome, because most of us were traditionally schooled ourselves, is the notion that children MUST be carefully fed bite-sized bits of information, little by little, in carefully graduated and incremented portions, and they MUST be done at certain ages and in a certain sequence. Or else...

Or else what? Or else they learn it later. Big whoop lol... And they learn it faster, and all in one go rather than spread out in tiny bits over YEARS, because their brains are more mature AND because they have self-motivation to learn it.

There's a famous case, you can probably google it, of a child-led school where a group of 12-year-olds, who had never done formal math at ALL, decided they wanted to learn their math now. They worked hard and completed the entire grade 1-to-6 math curriculum in 6 weeks. Done, finito, mastered.

Anyway, the point is, yeah an unschooled kid might end up with "holes" in their education. But find me just ONE public schooled child who does NOT. All kids have some holes, they're just in different places. If a child has a love of learning and self-motivation and has learned HOW to learn, then as they uncover their holes they will fill them. A child who has only been passively 'spoonfed' information might not.

After saying all that, of course unschooling isn't the best fit for ALL families. But I will say this -- I know of more cases of families who started off doing strict "school at home" curriculums, who gradually over time became more eclectic, relaxed, child-led and "unschooley"... than who start off radical unschoolers who gradually added more curriculum. Of course the latter does happen, especially as kids get older and more mature and start WANTING to enrich their knowledge in a more structured way -- but just from my own anecdotal observations, it's less common.

I would say the majority of homeschoolers (again just my anecdotal observations) are eclectic, with lots of unschooley-child-led stuff, but with a few curriculum-based subjects for whatever areas they personally felt were too important to leave to "chance" or did not believe their children would take to on their own, etc. We're like that, in fact. I do a certain amount of planning and guiding for "core" subject work and my son lacks inner motivation and drive, he does need a minimum amount of structure. But it's just 'minimum'... the rest of the time is his own, and he learns just as much that way too.
post #5 of 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by tankgirl73 View Post
Exactly. Say, worst case scenario, you're 25 years old and have never learned division and realize that there's something you can't do because you need to divide some numbers.

First of all, you're probably recognizing that this is PRETTY unlikely, to make it to 25 years old and to have never encountered a situation where you'd have to divide something.

Once you've realized that, ask yourself this -- you're 25 years old and realize you have to divide something. You've never done it before. Do you think you're not going to be able to learn how to do it now???

This is an absolute WORST CASE scenario, a 25-year-old who never, ever learned to divide and never had it come up as anything necessary in their life before. So now, you open up an elementary math textbook, and you learn how to divide in like 10 minutes.

Voila, problem solved.

One of the biases we all have to overcome, because most of us were traditionally schooled ourselves, is the notion that children MUST be carefully fed bite-sized bits of information, little by little, in carefully graduated and incremented portions, and they MUST be done at certain ages and in a certain sequence. Or else...

Or else what? Or else they learn it later. Big whoop lol... And they learn it faster, and all in one go rather than spread out in tiny bits over YEARS, because their brains are more mature AND because they have self-motivation to learn it.

There's a famous case, you can probably google it, of a child-led school where a group of 12-year-olds, who had never done formal math at ALL, decided they wanted to learn their math now. They worked hard and completed the entire grade 1-to-6 math curriculum in 6 weeks. Done, finito, mastered.

Anyway, the point is, yeah an unschooled kid might end up with "holes" in their education. But find me just ONE public schooled child who does NOT. All kids have some holes, they're just in different places. If a child has a love of learning and self-motivation and has learned HOW to learn, then as they uncover their holes they will fill them. A child who has only been passively 'spoonfed' information might not.

After saying all that, of course unschooling isn't the best fit for ALL families. But I will say this -- I know of more cases of families who started off doing strict "school at home" curriculums, who gradually over time became more eclectic, relaxed, child-led and "unschooley"... than who start off radical unschoolers who gradually added more curriculum. Of course the latter does happen, especially as kids get older and more mature and start WANTING to enrich their knowledge in a more structured way -- but just from my own anecdotal observations, it's less common.

I would say the majority of homeschoolers (again just my anecdotal observations) are eclectic, with lots of unschooley-child-led stuff, but with a few curriculum-based subjects for whatever areas they personally felt were too important to leave to "chance" or did not believe their children would take to on their own, etc. We're like that, in fact. I do a certain amount of planning and guiding for "core" subject work and my son lacks inner motivation and drive, he does need a minimum amount of structure. But it's just 'minimum'... the rest of the time is his own, and he learns just as much that way too.
:

Great post!
post #6 of 11
As unschoolers you accept the possibility/likelihood that your kids WONT ever sit at the table doing division.

But you also understand that there are plenty of real life opportunities to learn it without that.

And that if they don't, it must not be that important.

And if they realize it is, they will either be internally motivated to learn it...or not.

My son starting learning division when he wanted to figure out how to share Popsicles evenly with his friends. He's been adding and subtracting by playing Pokemon and Gormiti. He's learned place value by keeping track of how many bookmarks he has saved. It was nothing I pointed out, he just did it.
post #7 of 11
I forget which book I read it but it says all kids already know division...any 3 year old can tell you that if there are 4 cookies, he gets 2 and his sister gets 2
post #8 of 11
it's already been said but again - say your kid never learns Division (or enter whatever in the blank) they will at some point either:

A: never run across something that requires that skill (unlikely but should it happen then obviously that specific child does not need that skill for their life)

or

B: They run across something that requires the skill and so they learn it.

If you want a job or get a job (or school/activity/etc that requires some type of knowledge or skill that you don't currently have you learn it so you can pursue what you want to.
post #9 of 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by hipumpkins View Post
I forget which book I read it but it says all kids already know division...any 3 year old can tell you that if there are 4 cookies, he gets 2 and his sister gets 2
Oh no that math is completely wrong! Everyone know the proper way to divide those 4 cookies is to hide them all in the cupboard and give mom one each night for 4 days (or 4 in one day ). Kids don't even need to know about it.
post #10 of 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by onyxravnos View Post
it's already been said but again - say your kid never learns Division (or enter whatever in the blank) they will at some point either:

A: never run across something that requires that skill (unlikely but should it happen then obviously that specific child does not need that skill for their life)

or

B: They run across something that requires the skill and so they learn it.

If you want a job or get a job (or school/activity/etc that requires some type of knowledge or skill that you don't currently have you learn it so you can pursue what you want to.
This is absolutely true. It takes virtually no time to learn how to work a "long division problem," for instance, when a time comes to learn it for a purpose. Practicing it over and over isn't necessary, even though most of us had to do that in school. - Lillian
post #11 of 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by AllisonK View Post
Oh no that math is completely wrong! Everyone know the proper way to divide those 4 cookies is to hide them all in the cupboard and give mom one each night for 4 days (or 4 in one day ). Kids don't even need to know about it.
:

so true...so true...:
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